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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Damside Damsel on Tuesday 09 February 10 19:26 GMT (UK)
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My 4 x Great Grandfather was James Ramsay who married Ann(ie) Brown 16th January 1785 at St. Hilda's Parish Church, South Shields, Co. Durham, England. No details of any help given. No trace on 1841 census.
This was annotated at baptism of son Thomas -
Thomas 3rd. son of James Ramsay, Mariner, native of Fife and Ann Brown, Native of Alnwick. Born 19/1/1799
Children in order: -
Isabella 1786, James 1789, Richard 1791, Mary 1795, Thomas 1799
This is all the information that I have to go on - if Scottish naming patterns are used (if I have all the children :P) then possible parents in Fife could be: - James and Mary - pretty common, I know, and Fife is a big county!!!
Does anyone have a missing James Ramsey from their family in Fife? or does anyone have an idea what my next steps could be.
Any help would be much appreciated
Heather
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hi Heather :)
have you seen this -
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=hebsramsey&id=I0078
there is a death for a james ramsEy 2nd quarter 1848 south shields on freeBMD
ev
PS just noticed that this is probably your tree :-\
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Thankyou EV
I wrote to South Shields about 5 years ago, as Parish Records show that a James Ramsey died 1848.
Apparently they could find no trace of a death of a James Ramsey or Ramsay and I just assumed it was an unregistered death!!!
It was most unusual, I must say, for South Shields Registry Office as thet are normally on the ball.
I will just gamble on £7 and apply to GRO Southport - Watch this space!!!
Many, many thanks
Heather
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hi heather
on the fife death index theres an entry for a james ramsay died 1834. worth a check at least. as he was a sailor he would have travelled up and down the coast.
James RAMSAY Wemyss 6 Sep 1834 seaman, "Success" Perished nr Fraserburgh - Fife Herald 11 Sep 1834
source Nwsp Campbell Newspaper
jacci
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Heather
I have come to believe a relative of mine - Peter Shepherd married a
Ann Ramsay in Fife maybe about 1780 on as I have yet to confirm but
their daughter was Mary Herries Shepherd who married Thomas Mount
- the Mounts being the family who migrated to South Aust.in1839
I am still trying to ascertain Marys mother - am very sure it was Peter
Shepherd who was a schoolteacher - we have letters from him to Mary.
Hope we can settle this. Cheers Dordee
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Hi Dordee,
Hopefully you'll get this message ayear after posting your last message.
I'm a direct descendant of May (or Marjorie) Ramsay, bap. Cupar23/1/1786 who is a younger sister of Ann Ramsay bap Cupar 5/4/1778, d. “of dropsy”, bur. Cupar 16/3/1844, who married Peter Shepherd, Teacher, b. c. 1756 bur. Cupar 23/6/1846. Annwas the daughter of Arthur Ramsay, Hammerman & Blacksmith in Cupar, Fife, by Christian Campbell, dau. of James Ramsay, Maltster & Brewer of Cupar.
There burial entries from the Cupar OPRs are:
Shepherd - Ann Ramsay, wife to Peter Shepherd, teacher, of Cupar, aged 65, buried 16 March 1844.
Shepherd - Peter Shepherd, teacher, of old age, aged 90, buried 23 June 1846.
However I can't find any marriage entry for them, or indeed any other details regarding their family. You say they had at least one child Mary Herries who went to Australia in 1839.
Do you have any further info on them and their family.
Many thanks,
Craig
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Hello Craig - kin of mine
I am thrilled to offer information to someone as I have been helped by
others at Rootschat for which I am grateful. Firstly where do you live?
I am inAustralia where Ann Ramsays daugh. Mary Herries came with her
husband Thomas Mount of Cupar. Do not have marriage date for her parents. I have been trying to locate any of Mary's siblings too. Thomas and Mary had five sons in Cupar, two must have died as they brought three sons to Australia in 1839 on the Rajastan. They had their only daughter Mary Ann Jane and another son Robert Fife born here. I am directly descendant from Robert Fife, him being my Mothersgrandfather - a very tall man with a red beard. I have compiled and had printed a booklet only able to go back to Peter and Ann. Incidentally I was sure Peter Shepherd died at 90 yrs and Ann at 65. Did not know where the name Herries came in. Also was confused with your words Hammerman & Bl by Christian Campbell\
(who is he?) dau. of James Ramsay,
alster & Br. please explain.
Would love to hear from you what would we be too each other ?
Bit hard to work out.
Dordee
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Hi Dordee,
May/Marjorie Ramsay (she later married Alexander Younger and lived in Leuchars parish near Cupar) was my 4 x great grandmother. The lines goes back from myself through my mother (Elizabeth Margaret Hill), grandmother (Helen Bogue McNicoll), gt grandmother (Elizabeth Younger Bogue), 2 x gt g'mother (Helen Younger), 3 x gt grandfather (John Younger), 4 x gt g'mother (May/Marjorie Ramsay).
Ann & May were daus of Arthur Ramsay, Blacksmith & Hammerman in Cupar. He was a son of another Arthur Ramsay by his wife Margaret Smith who was the daughter of John Smith/Smyth, also a Hammerman of Smiths in Cupar. The Hammermen of Smiths were members of the guild of blacksmiths or metal workers. The marriage of Ann & May's sister Jean states she was the dau. of Arthur Ramsay, Gunsmith in Cupar Bridge, so Arthur senior was a gunsmith. He is 6 x great grandfather. There is a large number of Smiths/Smyths in Cupar who were Hammermen.
Ann & May's mother was Christian, the eldest daughter of James Ramsay, who was described as a Maltman (maker of whisky) & a Brewer (maker of beer or ale).
I live and work in Edinburgh which is about 3/4 hour drive south of Cupar, and a short drive across the Forth Road Bridge from the Kingdom of Fife.
Craig
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Hello Craig
Thank youfor the reply. Quite a bit to absorb heh?
I wonder if you could locate any Mounts in the Cupar, Fife areas or
anywhere for that matter. The name is not common and I am sure
if any are in Scotland they must be related.
Have not yet been to Scotland but am longing to go. How lucky you
are to live there Edinburgh must be beautiful.
I can nowadd some more names at the beginning of our family tree.
Would love to hear from you again.
Dordee
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Hold on Dordee,
Found some recent info which seems to indicate that Ann Ramsay who married Peter Shepherd, the teacher, might not be my Ann Ramsay, daughter of Arthur Ramsay of Cupar. We might not be cousins after all!
Had a look at the Dairsie entry for their dau Mary who we know about -
23 Nov 1806, Peter Shepherd & Anne Ramsay his wife had a daughter born 23 Nov & bap 29 Dec 1806 named Mary.
Then I found five more of their children in the Dundee registers:
John, son of P.S., Teacher, & A.R. b 26/5 bap 31/5/1812 - named after J. Shepherd & J. Ramsay, grandfathers.
Agnes, dau of P.S., Teacher, & A.R. b 7/9 bap 10/10/1813 - named after A. Shepherd, cousin.
Elizabeth, dau of P.S., Teacher, & A.R. b 12/12 bap 31/12/1815 - named after E. Shepherd, aunt.
James, son of P.S., Teacher, & A.R. b 9/8 bap 22/8/1819 - named after J.R., Cupar, Fife
William, son of P.S., Teacher, & A.R. b 19/7 bap 4/8/1822 - named after pat. & mat. uncle.
I then had another look at the IGI and found another Ann Ramsay, the daughter of John Ramsay & Mary Melvin, bap Dairsie, Fife 23/5/1778. This would account for their 1st child Mary (Herries) also being bap at Dairsie parish, Ann's home parish, near her mother. Also John's bap entry says he was named after his grandfather, J(ohn) Ramsay.
What do you think?
Craig
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Hello again Craig
Interesting what you have found. I find that in Scotland, children were
named after family members as you know. The A.Ramsay who had five more chdn after Mary Herries of whom two were named James & William. When Mary Herries married P.Sh. two of her sons who possibly decd. before leaving Scotland were named James & William.
This is a big factor. Incidentally do you know where the Herries comes in? All confusing. which A.Ramsay are you related to- worked it out?
Easier for you to solve this than me as you have access to records.
Look forward to your reply.
Dordee.
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Hello again Diddy. Need your wonderful expertise again.
Have learnt of possibly more siblings my 4xgr/m had- John b. 26/5 bap 31/5 1812 Agnes bap 10/10 1813 - Elizabeth bap. 31/12/1815- James bapt. 22/8/1819 + William bapt. 4/8/1822. The eldest Mary Herries Shepherd (F. P> Shepherd M.Ann Ramsay) married by 4xgrt/f. Thomas Mount. Could you locate any more info of these siblings and where the middle name Herries comes from?
Quite a task I know. I really would like to trace anyone related in either side who still live in Scotland. There mustbe some ofmy kin.
Thanks
Dordee
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Hi Craig,
I noticed your discussion with Dordee. I was interested to see a mention of Alexander Younger in your post. I'm wondering if you have any more information about the Youngers?. My line appears to go back to Alexander Younger and May Ramsay. My great grandmother was May Younger daughter of Henry Younger and Ann McCann. Henry was the son of Alexander Younger and May Ramsay. I believe Henry was born in Leuchars, Fife.
I don't know a lot more than this at the moment.
I hope someone can help,
Thanks
Kate
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Hi Kate,
Thanks for your post and good to hear from you. If Henry is descended from Alexander Younger and May Ramsay, then yes we are related as I descend from Henry's brother John and his wife Helen Bartie. they are my 3 x great grandparents on my mother's side.
I do have a lot of info about the Youngers although nothing of your Henry. I thought he had died young but he obviously ran off to Oz! Alexander was the son of Thomas Younger and Janet Smart, but I haven't managed to get back further than them. However May or Marjorie was daughter of Arthur Ramsay and Christian Campbell and I do have more on them going back a bit further.
Can you bear with me for a few days. I'm doing a social work degree and in the middle of a heavy writing period.
I'll get back to you in a few days. If you can send me a personal message on this site to my private e-mail I can correspond better with you.
Best wishes,
Craig
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Craig
Good to hear from you also,thanks for getting back so quickly. The info you gave was great, thanks for sharing. I don't have a huge amount of info on Henry at the moment (here's a little to flesh out your records); Henry Younger died in 1896 and is buried in the Bannockburn cemetery near Geelong Victoria. It says on his death certificate that there was a magisterial inquiry but I haven't figured out how to find this yet. Henry and Ann had eight children ( James, Henry, Annie, Christina, May, Charles, Elizabeth and Mary). I'm not sure what other info you may be interested in, please let me know, I'll add to it if I can.
I would love to send you a personal email but apparently I have to have at least 3 posts before I can do this.
Good luck with the writing and get back to me when you are able.
Best wishes,
Kate
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Wonder if there is any connection. I have the following in my family tree.
John Younger married a Helen Bartie.. their son Alexander married a Jane Ann Stephen. They lived in ST. Vigeans, Arbroath. between 1881 and 1897 they had the following children. Mary, Isabella, Helen, Alexander, Margaret, George, James, John, Jane, and Elizabeth. In 1899 their daughter Annie was born, she was my Grandmother.
I have a death certificate for John Younger, his parents are Alexander Youngers and Marjory Ramsay. I think the youngers lived in tayport and leuchars area of fife.
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Hi.My name is John Oughton.I have been working on my family tree and think that James Ramsay was my 3rd grand uncle.His brother John Ramsey was my 3rd great grandfather.His parents were Mary ramsay and Alexander younger.Mary ramsay parents were Arthur ramsay and Christina cambell.Arthur Ramsay parents were Robert ramsay and Julian? Pierson.They were married on 19th January 1746.Was John ramsay married to Helen Barty?
I hope this helps.
Kind regards John oughton. My family tree is on ancestry if you want to look.
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Hi.I think we may be related as well.My 4th great grandparents were Mary ramsay and Alexander younger.Marys parents were I think Arthur ramsay and Christina cambell.Arthur ramsays parents were Robert ramsay and Julian pierson I believe. My tree goes Ellen frazer oughton (nee Alexander) my Mother. Margaret younger bowman (grandmother) John whytock younger (1st great grandfather) margaret younger ( 2nd great grandmother) John younger ( 3rd great grandfather) Mary ramsay (4th greatgrandmother) married to Alexander younger.I think Robert ramsay married Julian ? Pierson at Leuchars Fife in 1746.please contact me if you wish.
Your John oughton
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I have a death certificate for 24th feb 1872. for a Mary Younger, widow of Alexander, who died in Balmullo Parish of Leuchars Fife. Parents are Arthur Ramsay, Blacksmith, and Christine Ramsay (nee Campbell) Their son
John Younger married Helen Bartie, and they lived at house yards st vigeans
Johns parents on death certificate are Alexander Younger and Marjory Ramsay
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Thanks for the help everyone. It appears we are talking about the right family. Henry's brother was John Younger. I'm currently trying to get information on all Henry's kids here in Oz. Am finding quite a lot but still have to verify some of it.
Henry married Ann McCann in 1848 and died 1896. he and Ann had 8 children. My great grandmother May was their fifth child , born 1860
Nice to know there's a whole lot of family over there, or so it appears.
Nice to meet you all
Kate