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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: arevans777 on Tuesday 09 February 10 11:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi. This is a photograph of a photograph that was inset into a tea box behind a plate of glass. It cannot be removed or scanned without destroying the box. It is said to be my grandfather's ancestors. A rather scary lot! They were carpenters and joiners, so possibly made the box themselves. The photograph may have been taken in the Swansea/Llanelli area of Wales (if earlier) or Liverpool (if later).
Please help me to date it. And any estimates as to the ages of the subjects would be appreciated.
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The picture isn't behind the glass,it is the glass.This is called an Ambrotype,an image directly onto a glass plate therefore in reverse as you can see by the younger man's waistcoat.The younger woman is in the style of early to mid 1860's but as she doesn't have the full crinoline would put this a bit later at mid - late 1860's,also she doesn't appear to be wearing a wedding ring (right hand in this) so brother,sister & parents probably.
Parents look in their 50's while the young man looks mid 20's & sister a bit older.
jim
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This how they would have been posed.
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Ooooh, what a fabulous photo!!
I'm thinking maaaybe a little earlier than Jim's estimate because of the young woman's hairstyle...the younger ladies started wearing hair back from the ears around 1865. Her skirt may be squashed in a bit and that's why it doesn't seem like there's a big crinoline under it...
Just a note on the pose...ambrotypes were not processed off a negative, this is actually the negative we are seeing, treated so it looks like a positive. But it's still a reversed image. What seems like the girl's right hand in the original is as you can see in Jim's version, actually her left hand, clearly bereft of wedding ring...
Persons of the opposite sex did not touch, in photos or everyday life, so if they are photographed with an arm around someone like this, they are related. this is definitely a group of parents and children.
The photo has been hand coloured.
I'll be watching for restores with great interest...again, a wonderful photo and you are very, very lucky to have it. Take great care with it :)
Cheers,
China
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Don't the brother and sister look alike! And they take after mama, not papa :D
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Many thanks for your comments. I'm thrilled that it is such an early photograph.
Given the dates, I'm almost certain I can now identify the subjects.
From the 1861 census: Living at 39 Upper William Street, Llanelly:
Parents: Edward Evans b1804, Sarah Evans (nee Owens) b1799, and children Jane Evans b1835 and David Evans b1833.
The eldest son of Edward and Sarah Evans was William Evans b1831, my great great grandfather, who moved from Llanelli
to Liverpool in the mid 1850's. Perhaps the tea box was a present sent from his parents in Wales during the 1860's as a keepsake.
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Quite likely them, seems to fit.
Interesting jewel Jane is wearing at her neck...looks like a cameo.
Don't you just love the tablecloth hanging up as a backdrop...I think awkward little touches like that make early photos very precious.
Just a little note for your family history in general...in census returns Certain Young Women Of A Dubious Repute, shall we say, often called themselves "dressmakers"... :) I hasten to add, of course, that there were many, many actual dressmakers about :) In fact, before ready-made clothing came along there was likely a dressmaker on every street. Some clothes were constructed with gussets sewn into the seams, so the dress could be let out as the wearer grew. One social convention that kept dressmakers busy was the mourning customs. Since a woman who lost a mate or other family member was obliged to go into mourning immediately, she usually trotted her entire wardrobe into the garden and simmered every item in horrible black dye. Then when the mourning period was over, she had to replace every dress. In addition to that, dress was a statement of social status and every woman of any means liked to keep up with the latest trend.
So your Jane was likely a busy woman :)
Cheers,
China
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Any attempts to clean, enhance and/or colour would be very much appreciated.
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It's really okay, restorers. These people won't rise from their graves and suck your blood. Promise.
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Arevans, what you have to do is go back to the FIRST post in this thread, click on Modify, and change the title to reflect that you would like a restore. The restorers aren't supposed to do one without being asked, and because the title only mentions dating, they might not even look at the thread :)
Cheers,
China
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Oh what a fantastic photo. I would love to do it but I'm away for a long weekend and may not be able to get on to do anything until next Tuesday at the earliest - maybe not finish until Wednesday/Thursday :-\
Is that too late for you?
Gadget
PS - I could speak a bit of Welsh to them while I restore ;D ;D ;D
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Wow You lucky lucky person .. A gorgeous example of an ambrotype . I hope we can do it justice on here ... .. As Gadget says.. fantastic photo ..meanwhile I'd better brush up my Welsh too ! ;D
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Arevans, what you have to do is go back to the FIRST post in this thread, click on Modify, and change the title to reflect that you would like a restore.
Thanks, China.
I didn't know I could that. 8)
Antony.
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Oh what a fantastic photo. I would love to do it but I'm away for a long weekend and may not be able to get on to do anything until next Tuesday at the earliest - maybe not finish until Wednesday/Thursday :-\
Is that too late for you?
Not in any mad hurry. Just looking at the other threads, I'm gobsmacked at what you guys and gals can do with an old photo.
Diolch yn fawr!
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For anyone interested...
I was looking at a book in the library several months ago about "scanning just about anything".
The author had actually scanned an old ceramic teapot that had a photographic scene on it.
I can't remember the details, sorry. ::) But if you have the type of scanner with a removable lid, just about anything can be scanned.
I've scanned a framed photograph in mine and it turned out fine. Haven't tried a teapot yet. ;D
Leonie.
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No kidding...that's interesting...of course, with the right software you can correct the perspective to turn it into a flat image...
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No kidding...that's interesting...of course, with the right software you can correct the perspective to turn it into a flat image...
Thats not a problem with Photoshop .. Perspective can be changed in a few minutes ....I love this pic and have been working on it since I saw it last night... with a break for a sleep and lunch of course ... ;D ;D
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Well, Poll, it looks as if you'll finish it days before me! I won't be able to do much until Tuesday.
Just arrived but haven't got my decent software and machine here :-\
Gadget
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I have a flat bed scanner, and I think the box could be scanned. But it is in my mother's possession and she is 1000km away. I took this photo (best of many attempts) when visiting her recently. Very tricky to avoid reflection of the glass. Had to be taken at a slight angle. How would a scanner handle the glass? Wouldn't you get the reflection or glare of the strobe?
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Hi Anthony...Here's an attempt at a clean up...hope it's okay as I'm having problems with my keyboard :-\
Sorry...no Welsh though...I have enough problems with the English language..with the occasional French chucked in ::) ;D
Whoops!!!..Slight adjustment
Carol
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Thank so much, Carol. An excellent job of framing, given the irregular shape of the original.
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You're welcome Anthony...Glad you like them :D
Carol
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A small version for posting ...with the original pink tints retained .. ;D ;D
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Here it is on the tea box, restored, before I extracted it ... ;)
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...and a sepia in reverse to make up a set .. ;D
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a try from me
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A small version for posting ...with the original pink tints retained .. ;D ;D
It's stunning, polldoll. You've brought out details I hadn't even noticed before.
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Hi Anthony
It turned out wet. I'm struggling with old equipment/software but here are a couple of small ones ..
First, original view with a perspective correction
Gadget
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...and mirrored
I'll try and do some more on the image but may have to take it back on a stick.
Gadget
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PS - i've noticed that we have a new restorer- oldmaid - welcome to the board and what a good restore you've done :)
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I have done a small brown one as well.
I've been trying to find some suitable colours for the Welsh tweed that the older lady is wearing. It wasn't as flamboyant as the Scottish tartans - mainly grey or beige backgrounds as far as i can recall.
It does so remind me of my dear Mum. She use to buy me Welsh rugs/blankets in these old patterns :-\
Gadget
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Nice one guys.
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Thanks to everyone for super work. Gadget, don't give up. I'm really looking forward to seeing the colour!
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I'll not be able to do any colour until Tuesday, Anthony. I've found some Welsh blanket patterns so will work from those*
I'll take the files back on a stick.
I've got some Montgomeryshire records that might have Sarah Owens on if you've not followed her up. Some of my ancestors were from Montgomeryshire. Have you followed up Jane Evans? She intrigues me - is that a goitre ?
Gadget
* added - try putting Welsh plaid into Google - I found my own Tartan and the Evans's
http://www.scotweb.co.uk/tartan?filter_locality=Welsh&gclid=CJmzyJKg8p8CFc9k4wodS1ToYQ
:D
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An attempt from me, colour to follow,
Ivor
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I've got some Montgomeryshire records that might have Sarah Owens on if you've not followed her up. Some of my ancestors were from Montgomeryshire. Have you followed up Jane Evans? She intrigues me - is that a goitre ?
The majority of the census records for Sarah say b 1801, and the only Montgomeryshire baptism record I can find on IGI at that time gives parents as Richard Owen and Jane Tamberlain. Any light you can shine on this possibility or others would be great.
I've managed to get quite far with David, due to his occupation. He appears to have built a very successful cabinet making business in nearby Vaughan street. But for Jane I have not got anywhere, yet. Her parents lived alone in the 1871 census. She may have married. Or she may have died. There are, however, many Jane Evans's who got married in Llannelly between the census dates, whereas there are no matching deaths. So it would seem most likely that she got married. Evans is not an easy name for research, though, especially in Wales.
As for possible goitre? Hadn't noticed before, but now that you point it out.... hmm, maybe. If it is, at least it is only mild. I'm sure it would have been covered, otherwise. In the photograph, her clothing seems to accentuate her neck.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just pop back in time and be a fly on the wall?
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coloured version,
Blanket giving me trouble, best i could do with it im afraid,
Should look on the census and see if theres a pub next door cos the old boy looks as though he's itching to get to it ;D
Ivor
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Very nice colour work, Ivor.
Your question about the pub ;D raises the question whether it was customary to take the family photo in the subject's home or at the photographer's studio. There was a photographer, William Ace & Sons, operating Llanelly at this time. They were also in Vaughan Street where David had his shop/home when this photograph was taken. It seems likely they were the photographers.
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Hi Antony :)
Just putting this to bed with three variations on a colour theme :)
First - as i first did it:
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Second, a slightly warmer but more subdued one
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and a dreamier faded one :)
Gadget
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Oops - just realised that I've not done them as a mirror image. Here's one of them:
(If you want the others mirrored, let me know by PM)
Gadget
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Gadget,
They were well worth the wait. Excellent! Thank you so much.
Antony.
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Wow, Gadget! Superb.
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Thank you kindly. I enjoyed doing the restore and colour :)
It's a well travelled image - I brought it back from the North of Scotland on a flash stick ;D
(a bit like me - Wales ->the World )
gadget
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Hi again Antony
I know you enjoy an experiment and I've been trying out some new techniques of watercolour effects (via a bloke called Shane Canfield - from the Katrin Eismann camp). This involves creating a few different sketch layers, with varying intensity. Then creating a new pattern from the colour layer , using multiple brush characteristics, etc. and then painting the sketch with the new pattern ::)
Anyway, this is an attempt using my earlier colouring.
Gadget
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Oooh I like that G!!
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I'll try and write out a generalised version of how to do it and let you have the details - took about an hour to just create the necessary sketch layers and the brush patterns (after the restore and colour) ::)
I like experimenting - fun ain't it. I've used Photoshop for too many years to admit to but I'm still finding new bits and bobs :D
Gadget
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I love digitally painting but It's a bit difficult on a restore forum to utilise those creative urges too often ... Though we do sneak 'em in now and then don't we ... :-X :-X ;D
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Gadget, you are full of surprises. Just when I thought this thread was off to oblivion...
It is a very effective technique. A work of Art. I'm sure even the old man would have relaxed his scowl if he could have seen it. 8)
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Hi Antony........Its not as though you need anymore but heres an extra one anyhow.
Carolyn :)
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Carolyn, thank for a super restore.
Antony.
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Only just seen this. Amazing work on an amazing pic.
Gadget I love the watercolour effect :D
Maggie
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:)
Maggie - you reminded me. Pels told me to look at it with the lights off because it glows.
I've just looked and it does :D
Gadget
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It's a fantastic effect, Gadget, well done :)
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just a clean and brought out the original colouring