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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Karen60 on Tuesday 09 February 10 04:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I have 2 scottish birth records and both give the marriage of the parents Henry McFadyen and Janet McEwan as: 30th December 1887
The parents of Henry and Janet on this certificate are wrong!
Janet McEwan is the daughter of Andrew McEwan and Margaret McCulloch the certificate has: William McEwan and Janet McAuley
Henry was the son of Henry McFadyen and Eliza Jane Irvine the certificate has: Henry McFadyen and Matilda Henderson
There is only 1 match for this marriage on Scotland people
anyone have any idea where I can go from here
Karen
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Hi
My first thought is that the birth parents, except for Henry McFadyen senior, died whilst Janet & Henry were young and the couple named the 'parents' who raised them rather than their biological parents. I would research the biological parents and also look for Janet & Henry in censuses prior to their marriage.
Andy
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Do the 2 birth certificates not also list a place for the parents' marriage?
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Hi Andy
thanks for the reply
I already have the biological parents of Janet in the census records before and after her marriage. Her father died before she married but her mother never remarried and Janet was present at her death.
What I was wondering was, is it possible that the clerk mixed up two marriages and if so how can I check the page after this listing in the parish register
Karen
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Hi aghadowey
The birth certificates list the place of marriage as Glasgow, Lanark
The parish record is Dennistoun, Lanark
The couples address on the marriage certificate is 6 Union Street, Glasgow.
Henry & Janet were not at this address in the 1881 or 1891 census or on the childrens birth certs so I can't tie it in that way.
I just find it so confusing that the date & place are right but parents of Janet are definately wrong....Henry is another matter as I do not have his birth certificate
Also the occupation of Henry on the marriage is incorrect as from age 17 (1881 census) to his death he was a cabinet maker/joiner and the marriage lists him as a 'marine stoker'
Karen
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Hi Karen,
It's possible Henry and Janet just decided to give different names for their parents for whatever reason. It's also possible (and perhaps a tad more likely!) that the clerk has made some errors ... either copying them onto the wrong page or copying them from memory. You can check the previous and following pages on SP using the blue "View Page Before" and "View Page After" buttons at the top left. It will cost you 5 credits per extra image you view.
I can see the 1866 Calton birth for Janet using Andrew/Margaret as parents. But nothing for Henry with either - was he Irish? He's not on the 1891 census with Janet and children, but is he the one in the North Prison? If so, his record is available at the National Archives of Scotland. I can post details if it's correct.
hume :)
Posted at the same time.
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Thanks Hume
I'll go check the page after they were married.
I just noticed that the top of the parish register reads 1888 for the year but the marriage was 30th December 1887 so its possible this clerk had a 'Scottish New Year' before he did the entry.
thanks
Karen
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It could well be a transcription error either they transcribed the couple above or below or else they put the witnesses as parents. To be sure I suppose you have to follow this other couple and find out if their marriage is recorded on same day as yours or that they turn up with the real couple in other census records so that they may be friends.
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Thanks everyone for your help
I have now searched a lot of the entries before and after the marriage of Henry and Janet and can't find anything that will help.
I will say that because of this I have now read the certificate properly and noticed a couple of other things like:
Although the marriage occurred on the 30th December 1887 it wasn't written in the register until 6th January 1888 and it was the 2nd last entry of the day....anyone knows that mistakes happen and especially at the end of the day!
So I am just going to accept the certificate as a faulty one, it is just disappointing as Henrys parents are wrong and another relative who is also doing the tree and is taking them as fact and saying that his father must have married twice! and yes I know Janets parents were also wrong but he is not even looking at that fact (sorry had to have a grumble)
Karen
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I suppose if they were married in church the next thing would be to look for likely parish records.
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I'm a bit confused but my first thought is that you may have the wrong couple - or the wrong parents ... or a couple with similar names and places ... :-\
There seems to be too much 'incorrect' information.
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Hi Ruskie
I'll try and clear it all up.
Janet McEwan born 1866 to Andrew McEwan & Margaret McCulloch (known fact from living relative)
Henry McFadyen born 1864? to Henry McFadyen & Eliza Irvine
Janet & Henrys marriage details were taken from the birth certs of their children (all details the same)
30 December 1887
Search for this record - only 1 match (over 5yr period)
I also have death certificates for both Janet & Henry giving the right parents
Details on the marriage certificate had wrong parents for both parties
The reason I wanted to clear up the mystery of the marriage certificate was - that another family relative is now saying Eliza Irvine is not Henrys mother as there is no proof even though she is listed on the death certificate....(as he wasn't the one to give the details) he has no proof of another mother only the wrong details on the marriage certificate and he is disregarding the parents being wrong for Janet too
Anyway I have now searched 8 pages either side of the marriage entry on Scotland people and I think the only way I will ever clear it up is to get the parish record for 'Westercraigs" and that is assuming the clerk entered this correctly
Hope this clears up the confusion
Karen :)
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I've seen marriage certificates with a few 'wrong' details- my grandfather's uncle's marriage has fathers' Christian names switched for example, but this one seems full of errors. Good luck and do let us know if you are able to get more, and hopefully correct, details from church records.
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This is not an unknown phenomenon. I know of other people that have had similar situation. I think definitely all the evidence is on your side and this other Guy is making assumptions on only one piece of evidence. That is why you always need more than one source before you can be sure.
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Thanks Karen - I understand now. ;)
I've seen incorrect details of parent's on death certificates, but not on marriage certificates. That really is weird. There must be an interesting story behind that. :D
Apologies if this has already been asked (I've just skimmed over the comments in this post :-[), but have you found Janet and Henry's births/baptisms to check names of parents?
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Hi Karen
According to Familysearch IGI Janet MCEWAN born 10th August 1866 at Calton Reg Dist , Glasgow. Father Andrew MCEWAN, mother Margaret MCCULLOCH. The IGI also has siblings Alexander MCEWAN born 12th Nov 1868 Calton Reg Dist
Thomas MCEWAN born 1st July 1864 Old Monkland Reg Dist, Lanarkshire.
In 1871 census the family were in Scarborough, England but were back in Scotland in 1881.
You say Janet was present at her mothers death, does the certificate show both Janet's married name, Mcfadyen, and her address?
Do you have a copy of Janet's death certificate? What does it say for her parents? Also, is the address the same as Janet gave (if she did) on her mothers death certificate?
There should certainly be enough documentary evidence to show that the marriage certificate is incorrect.
The other thing that would be worth checking is the Parish Register as duckweed suggested in an earlier post, this was probably signed by the bride and groom when the marriage took place. The certificate would name the ministers church then its a matter of finding where the OPR's are.
According to the 1901 census, Henry was born in Co Tyrone, Ireland. The IGI does have 3 births in Tyrone for parents Henry MCFADDEN and Eliza Jane IRVINE
Aron born 6th July 1867
Thomas born 17th May 1865 (mother Eliza IRVINE)
Mary Anne born 17th Jan 1871
but no mention of Henry who would be older.
Thomas & Mary Anne do appear to match Henry's siblings although Mary Anne's age on Ancestry in the 1881 census is wrong and could be a transcription error. To verify who actually was Henry's mother you would need to find his birth or baptism. Its possible that Eliza Jane was his step-mother.
Andy
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According to the 1901 census, Henry was born in Co Tyrone, Ireland. The IGI does have 3 births in Tyrone for parents Henry MCFADDEN and Eliza Jane IRVINE
Aron born 6th July 1867
Thomas born 17th May 1865 (mother Eliza IRVINE)
Mary Anne born 17th Jan 1871
but no mention of Henry who would be older.
Thomas & Mary Anne do appear to match Henry's siblings although Mary Anne's age on Ancestry in the 1881 census is wrong and could be a transcription error. To verify who actually was Henry's mother you would need to find his birth or baptism. Its possible that Eliza Jane was his step-mother.
Civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864 so there will be no birth certificate for Henry if he was born before that date.
Not sure what age Mary Anne was in 1881 census but if she seems to have been born a bit after 1871 keep in mind that it was common practise to re-use a name in the family if a child had died so there could have been a Mary Anne born 1871 who died young.
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Hi & thanks to everyone for their help
I don't think it will be possible to find Henrys birth/baptism in Ireland because according to his grandaughter he had difficulty proving his age when he went to get a pension as the church where he was baptised had been burnt down.
I recently found mention of a Henry McFadyen in the NAS as being in prison in 1886 his address was Gallowgate Street (haven't sent for the records yet)
Would these records list his mother?
I know in the 1891 census there was a Henry Mcfadyen in prison too but I can't find this on NAS