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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: martianuk on Friday 18 March 05 03:10 GMT (UK)
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If there is a single Van Toll/VanToll in England in 1841 or 1851 - he's mine!
I have a marriage in March 1851 Paddington of Henry Delmar VanToll to Emma Mary Lamb (both full age). He resided at Paddington St Mary, she "of the James District". He was a Gentleman/fund holder, possibly 24 or 25 in 1851. Here is the mystery: I have a highly suspicious death cert for a Henry Delmar VanToll in 1854 (age 28), but his son Frank Orlando Henry Delmar (no VanToll on his birth cert) was born in 1857!!!!!! In 1861, widow Emma (b ca 1834, Twickenham) is misread by 1837online as Van Tole and Frank is Frank Delmar, son (maybe small ditto marks are missing under his mother's listing). By the time Frank hits a census in 1871, he's had the VanToll name added and even marries as a VanToll and so life goes on for all the VanToll descendents - but are they VanTolls??
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Martian1
I have checked the complete 1851 Census Indexes for; Paddington, Kensington, Brompton, Hammersmith, Fulham and Chelsea - HO107/1466-1474 but I couldn't find any VANTOLLS.
Sorry
Rick :(
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Thank you for trying. They married in March - I wonder if there was such a thing as a honeymoon in those days. Is there a general posting board for the whole of England, that you know of?
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Henry's 'son' Frank was born in Broad Street, Greenwich. Perhaps they moved there as soon as they married - before the 1851 census in the same month. Henry died from the famous cholera epidemic, that originated from the Broad Street pump
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Thank you for trying. They married in March - I wonder if there was such a thing as a honeymoon in those days. Is there a general posting board for the whole of England, that you know of?
We do have a dedicated England board, as well as a census lookup and resource board, but the problem is that the 1851 Census hasn't been indexed for England as a whole, only by county or as in London/Middlesex, by Registration District.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,48.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,1.0.html (scroll to bottom of page.)
Rick :)
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Hi
I know this a a distance from where you were looking but have been just browsing through and have found a Frank Delmar Van Toll marriage in Qtr Sept 1883 in Brighton Sussex on ancestry.co.uk 2b 411
So it seems that there were a couple
Mimosa
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That's kind of you to have a browse :)
Unfortunately, it's the same Frank that I referred to, but all grown up!
I'm still searching for more on his father.....!
Thank you though, Kirsty
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Hi Martian1,
This may be a really wild idea, but to me the name Henry Delmar Van Toll sounds very American. I know that there were English people of Dutch descent, but somehow that particular combination of names suggests an American origin.
If you are unable to find him in any earlier English records,
you might consider the USA( perhaps NY).
Cheers,
Carmela
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Hmm. I now live in America too.... I have been searching through the Dutch lines and have a Dutch contact too, but I didn't stop to consider the origin being Dutch, then American, then British. Thanks! I'll see what I can find! Kirsty
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I am writing on behalf of the Friends of Kensal Green Cemetery, in pursuit of a tangled tale that involves Henry Delmar Van Toll.
I've just played a hunch and come up trumps with the will of Henry Philip Hope (1774–1839), scion of the Anglo-Dutch banking family of that name and a collector of art and gems who once personally owned the Hope Diamond. He left a great deal of money and some valuable mementos to young Henry Delmar Van Toll and his aunt (or 'aunt'?), Maria Minna Delmar. Hope's will states that Mrs. Delmar was his 'esteemed, beloved and valued' friend for 'upwards of 37 years', but that doesn't preclude the possibility that young Henry was their child, rather than her nephew.
I am writing to everyone I can identify with an interest in the extended family to ask if anyone has found evidence that young Henry's putative father, also Henry Delmar Van Toll, existed at all. It's certainly rather odd that he should carry the name 'Delmar' when Maria Minna Delmar is otherwise identified as the widow of one Colonel Delmar of the Dutch service, and her maiden name seems to be something like 'Vanderplan' (it's not clear on her marriage certificate of 1842, and three native Dutch speakers have yet to decipher it for me).
Hope's will explains how Maria Minna Delmar and Henry Delmar Van Toll both came to be wealthy, but it deepens the mystery of his birth and her early life. In the event, her second (?) husband, Frederick Orlando Tompson Delmar, inherited her money and her name, and on his death endowed a charitable trust that exists to this day.
Any light any other family historian could shed on this story would be appreciated by the Friends of Kensal Green Cemetery, who are now keeping a watchful eye on the Grade II Listed Tompson Delmar monument, one tangible legacy of this remarkable story.
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How fascinating!!!! I have Henry's naturalisation certificates. On those he lists one (unnamed) aunt as his only relative and that he knows no other language than English, having lived in England since he was either 6 weeks or 6months old. I must look it up for you.
I am in shock to read this story of yours! It explains where his money came from.
Orlando was passed down as a name through our tree, as was Delmar, even though Henry Van Toll died 4 years before his widow had any (illegitimate) children. She never told the truth and if my Grandmother was still alive (she'd be 99), she'd tell you that her maiden name of Van Toll was that of a Dutch sea captain - the earliest family tale, with no details whatsoever.
I'm off to call my father now and share your post!! Please message me your personal email address and I can share the naturalisation docs with you. Henry's wedding certificate lists his father by an identical name, and "Gentleman".
Kirsty
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Similar posting regarding monument on this thread .............
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43785.0.html
and Surrey board