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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dustybaby on Saturday 06 February 10 16:07 GMT (UK)

Title: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Saturday 06 February 10 16:07 GMT (UK)
hello all
i have just registered in the hope i might find some answers.
i am researching my family history for my grandchildren and since my parents died many years ago i cannot ask them.
however, my father i remember him saying he was a p.o.w. in ww2 in japan during the building of the burna bridge.
on his marriage certificate it says of him in 1948
" private royal army ordance corps"
i really dont know where to start to look for any info about his military history can anyone help please. :(
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Laurina on Saturday 06 February 10 16:20 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat.

It might help if you could give more detailed information about your father - his age, place of birth etc.  A birth date would get you further back in your tree and help identify a marriage for your grandparents. It should then be possible to find your grandparents in the census and work from there. You should already know your grandfather's name and occupation from your father's marriage certificate.

I can't help but I'm sure someone on here will be able to find out something for you.

Laurina
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 06 February 10 16:27 GMT (UK)
HI there and a warm welcome from me too  :D

There is a place you can search UK prisoners of war from WW2.

So as Laurina said,if you can give us his name we'll take a look for you.

Once you can get back to 1911 and farther,then they should all show on the census records..........should!  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Saturday 06 February 10 16:48 GMT (UK)
many thanks. any help appreciated. details as follows

james hammond
d.o.b. 19/6/1919
barrhead
renfrew
scotland
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 06 February 10 16:55 GMT (UK)
Have just checked the POW lists and they only seem to be those captured in Germany,Austria or Poland.

As he came from Scotland you may do well to have this post moved to one of the Scottish boards,where people with more local knowledge can help.

A moderator may well do that soon  ;)

Do you want more of his military history(not sure how much WW2 stuff you can get yet though?) or more family background?
Rootschat has boards with specialists in both !

Carol
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Laurina on Saturday 06 February 10 16:55 GMT (UK)
To get records for Scotland you would need to go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - your father's birth is registered here. The birth certificate would give both your grandparents names and their marriage date. You wou need to buy 30 credits for £6 and this record would cost you about £1.20. If you already know your grandparents names it might be better to go for their marriage certificate instead.

Laurina
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Saturday 06 February 10 17:10 GMT (UK)
thank you all very much.
i do use scotlands people and have managed to get a few certificates, however with some items it says cannot . and have to order shame about that as i would like to know i have the exact details.
really appreciate all the help you gave so quickly.
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Saturday 06 February 10 17:11 GMT (UK)
The National Archive at Kew has details on the men who were prisoners of the Japanese - I don't think they are available online [Series WO 367]; they also have the questionnaires which returning men were encouraged to fill out giving information about their experience.

jds1949  
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Sunday 07 February 10 18:01 GMT (UK)
many thanks for all your help
will be looking into that
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 07 February 10 19:18 GMT (UK)
i really dont know where to start to look for any info about his military history

You can, as next of kin, apply for his service record - you seem to have all the necessary details except for service number, but they should be able to trace it.  You can download the application form from here:

http://veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: narnie TL on Monday 08 February 10 22:05 GMT (UK)
I used to work for SSAFA and I have many time contacted the regiment itself.You can  find the regimental websites too. they have a contact point on them, and maybe they have photos of the person you are looking for.You have to remember that some have merged. hope this was helpful
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Maddie on Tuesday 09 February 10 00:27 GMT (UK)
Hi

Can I suggest you have a look at http://www.fepow-community.org.uk/

My Father was also a Japanese POW & spent some of his time on the Burma Railway. If you join the Fepow community group the chaps on there are very knowledgeable & were a great help to me in discovering facts about his time in the Far East.

Good luck with your research.

Maddie
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: LizzieW on Tuesday 09 February 10 11:03 GMT (UK)
Quote
You can, as next of kin, apply for his service record

If you go down that route, you will have to be patient.  It used to take 3 months to get information, but as they informed me, "due to the very high volume of urgent welfare requests on behalf of former soldiers, family interest enquiries may take as much as six to eight months to complete"

So far I've waited 6 months, so will give them another month or so then contact them again.

Lizzie
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 09 February 10 11:07 GMT (UK)
Yes I too have waited 4 months so far...and of course they cashed my £30 cheque immediately ::)
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Maddie on Tuesday 09 February 10 11:25 GMT (UK)
I had considered getting my Fathers war record but was advised that there may well be no information included about his time spent as a POW in the Far East.

I don't know if this is the case for all Service records but I'm sure someone can advise you further. :)

However, I was able to get his Japanese POW Card & his Liberation questionnaire, both which went a long way in helping me discover the worst four years of my Dad's life. :'(

Maddie
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Tuesday 09 February 10 18:17 GMT (UK)
what a lovely caring bunch of people you are
we are all after the same thing information.
you have all been a great help to me as i was just hitting brick walls as to what i could do next.
i have taken everything on board and will be acting on as much info as i can.
so frustrating when your searhing hits a brick wall.

not wishing to push my luck here, but can anyone help with this also?
i am also trying to trace irish records, wedding and births about 1865 but am also coming unstuck here as well.

thanking you all in anticipation
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 09 February 10 18:45 GMT (UK)
Regarding your irish query,probably best to start a new thread on the Irish county boards. They have their own experts there who can help to explain the system over there.

Give them as much info as possible,names,dates and places and also if you know if they were Catholic or Protestant- makes all the difference apparently  ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,50.0.html

Carol
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Tuesday 09 February 10 23:15 GMT (UK)
I had a spare few minutes at Kew today - so I had a quick look for James Hammond in the Japanese POW records. There are only two cards for men named James Hammond, the only one that looks possible is this one:

James Hammond born 1/05/1918
Private 297826 2nd Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders
Place of capture: KLUANG
Father's name: James Hammond 116, Ferguslie Avenue, Paisley
Mother's name: Jean
Place of origin: Barrhead, Glasgow

The only name of a camp [in English] would seem to be somewhere called Eachern

I know that the above does not tally with the information that you gave earlier - except for the Barrhead connection, but the only other card was for an obviously English James Hammond with absolutely no connection to anything Scottish. Hope that it is of some use.

jds1949
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Wednesday 10 February 10 18:13 GMT (UK)
helllo jds1949

what a very nice thing to do for me.

many many thanks.

mmhh!!! strange info does not tally with what i have been told in the past.
so looks like the best way foreward would be to try and obtain his army records by the info in his marriage certificate which does only say "private royal army ordanance corps".am feeling like iam looking for a needle in a haystack.
so i thank you very much
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 10 February 10 18:22 GMT (UK)
You want info from WW2 don't you,if your dad was born in 1919?

You will have to send away for those records- hope someone else can come up with an address for you.....I requested my dad's RAF records,but don't know anything about Army ones for WW2.

Carol
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Wednesday 10 February 10 18:37 GMT (UK)
It is possible that your father stayed in the Army after his return from captivity. He did not marry until 1948, three years after the end of the war, so it is entirely possible that he changed Regiments. My Uncle was in the Loyals when he was captured in Singapore, when he returned home in 1945 he too stayed in the army, but transferred to the Veterinary Corps - so it did happen.

I'd be more concerned about the difference in birth date - not something you'd normally get wrong. If you know that your dad was born on 19th June 1919 then it's difficult to see how he could give a different date when he was captured. Do the parent's names tally - was your dad the son of James and Jean?

The records for soldiers who served after 1920 I think are still with the Ministry of Defence. This is the link I think you need:

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Personnel/ServiceRecords/MakingARequestForServiceDetailsOfDeceasedServicePersonnel.htm

jds1949
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Wednesday 10 February 10 18:51 GMT (UK)
hello.

i have his parents details and they tally to their marriage certificate.

on my fathers it says james hammond private royal army ordanance corps  aged 29yrs (29/6/1919) . barrhead. renfrew.

his parents are listed as james hammond and janet mcphail.

also in his wedding photo with my mother he is wearing his army uniform with what looks like a stripe of i suppose narrow coloured band above his left pocket.

Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Wednesday 10 February 10 19:01 GMT (UK)
The coloured band would probably be his medal ribbon - he would have been entitled to several medals following his war service. The parents' names would seem to match those on the POW card [Janet and Jean are usually fairly interchangeable], so it is probably your dad's. If I have time - no promises - I'll see if his questionnaire form was completed when I'm next at Kew - possibly next week. 

If he was in the 2nd Battalion A & S Highlanders then you should also be able to find out quite a bit about his wartime experiences up until the fall of Singapore.

You might try and get a copy of Peter Thompson's book "The Battle for Singapore" from your local library - it has several references to the 2nd Battalion A & S Highlanders - including the information that they were, for a time, stationed at Gillman Barracks at the same time as my Uncle was there in the 2nd Battalion The Loyals.

jds1949
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Wednesday 10 February 10 20:52 GMT (UK)
thank you so very much.

you are just a mine of information. could not have got this far without you.
many many thanks.
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Tuesday 16 February 10 18:46 GMT (UK)
OK, just a little bit more. There is a questionnaire form for James Hammond in the NA [WO 344/380/1] - unfortunately it contains very little that is new.

2979826 Private Hammond, James 2nd Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
DoB 1/5/18
Date of enlistment: 4/5/36
Address: 116, Ferguslie Park Avenue, Paisley, Renfrewshire
Place of Capture: Klang [F. M. S.] on 10/4/42

And that's all there is. Men were not ordered to fill in the forms, the authorities knew only too well what they had been through and, quite frankly, some of them were in no position to give much more that name, rank and number.

However:
The date of enlistment confirms that your man was a regular;
Klang would appear to be Port Klang, which is on the Malay peninsula and the date of capture is a good few weeks after the fall of Singapore, so there may be a story there.

I did also find in the same file the questionnaire of another man who was in the 2nd Battalion A & S Highlanders and he was captured at Singapore on the date that it fell. He listed some of the camps that he had been held in:
Changi
Ban Pong
Chunkah
Takanoon

It would be fairly usual to keep men from the same unit together - so it may well be the case that your man was in one or more of those camps. He would almost certainly have been in Changi, which was the main holding camp in the immediate aftermath of the surrender. The FEPOW site should help you identify a few more details.

Hope that helps

jds1949
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Tuesday 16 February 10 19:46 GMT (UK)
hello jds 1949

what can i say. thank you so very much for all the time you have taken over this.
i owe you so much for all the information you have givin me.
its so much more that i could have got myself.
i do remember my father before he died mentioning that area in paisley when he refered to his childhood.
now not sure where this burma thing came into it?
however, makes a whole lot of sense about the details you found out.
i suppose it is possible he either lied about his age etc. not sure what to make of that as i do not even have his birth certificate only marriage certificate and i do know he found out in the 1960"s he had a half sister. all this just came to light for me about 10yrs ago. so i suppose there are a few more roads i have to go down yet.
at least i now have some info that i can make a start with now.
god bless you.
dustybabyx
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: jds1949 on Tuesday 16 February 10 19:52 GMT (UK)
You're welcome.
If your Dad was at Ban Pong that would make sense - it was a camp in Thailand and men from there worked on the Burma Railway.

See: http://greatlakeshistorical.museum.com/burmarailway/thailand.html

for a part of the story - there's been a lot written about this so I'm sure that you'll find lots of details both online and in your local library.

Good hunting,

jds1949
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: dustybaby on Tuesday 16 February 10 19:56 GMT (UK)
thank you again. will do that.
wish i could return the favour.
wishing all the very best in your own research.
dustybaby x
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: Arthur68 on Friday 21 May 10 19:35 BST (UK)
Hi.
   The National Archives has Records of Prisoners captured by the Japanese, and they hold 50,000 Index Cards in WO345 which
the Japanese compiled. The Personal details are in English, but the other information is in Japanese.
All of these Records are available to view in the Archive reading rooms at Kew. In my experience I found it much easier to pay them to research & send the Documents. Prison of War information will show on Military Records.
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: narnie TL on Friday 21 May 10 22:40 BST (UK)
I agree with all that has been said. One thing to take into account is, sometimes men would be separated from their reg. and attatched to an other . Like some one said he could have been a regular. My granddad lied about his age when he joined up. He was only 14. if that helps
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: mlrfn448 on Monday 24 May 10 11:29 BST (UK)
My Uncle was a Jap POW, in Java and then Changi jail in singapore.
In his case, he had kept all his war time papers, many of which were deposited at the Imperial War Museum (IWM), after his death.
When I contact the IWM a few years ago, then sent me photocopies of everything they had free of charge. This included his medical record, weight, etc, so I was able to find out quite a bit about his time there.
The point being that the IWM may also be a place to contact.
Cheers!
Title: Re: my father war records
Post by: John67 on Sunday 31 March 13 15:39 BST (UK)
Hi my grandfather also called James Hammond and was from Barrhead.

He married his first wife Janet McPhail on the 27th of May 1918 and I believe they had two sons called James and John.I know he lived with them in Barrhead until 1930.

He married my gran on 8th October 1955 and lived at 161 Ferguslie Park Avenue and they had five children Janet born 1937, my dad Robert Hammond born 1938, David born 1942, Margaret born 1944 and Elizabeth born 1945.

Do you know if there is any connection.