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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Emm on Wednesday 03 February 10 19:38 GMT (UK)
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I am wanting to find out who owned a particular house in 1911.
Can anyone please tell me how I go about doing this?
Thank you.
:)
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Hi
Electoral registers for your local area will be a start. Where are we talking about?
Ben
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Hi - if you don't get the answer you need from house deeds, the electoral roll or the 1911 census entry then you can try the more complex records of the Valuation Office Survey, 1910 to 1915 - kept at the National Archives - which distinguishes between residency and ownership: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=102&j=1
Regards
Rob
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Ratebooks are also good.
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Never heard of Rate books, before.
???
The property was a cottage at Normanby, North Yorkshire (now Cleveland).
My maternal grandparents lived there - on the 1911 census.
I was born at the house which my grandfather had built.
But, between the cottage and the house, I have been informed that the family lived in a council house.
I am interested in finding out why.
All I can think of, is that the cottage was to be demolished, and they had to live somewhere until the house was built.
Thank you all for your help.
Oh my goodness, snowball. Just looked at your link. Completely double dutch to me, I am afraid.
:'(
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Ratebooks show people who paid the rates on the properties. Although it can be hit and miss as often the landlord or owner paid the rents if your ancestor was just a tenant. If your ancestor owned the property or was the landlord/chief occupier then he is likely to appear on the ratebooks.
Ratebooks can be a substitute for electoral registers.
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Not just me then with National Archive Guides. However, when there I find that the staff are usually helpful, so it's worth a trip.
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The Valuation Survey records at TNA are very easy to use. They come in two parts:
1. Index Maps/Plans - OS Maps marked up to show boundaries of each property and annotated with a reference number for each property.
2. Field Books - books (thousands of them) each containing the information on 100 properties. The reference on the map relates to entries in these books. Information will include, at the least, the address, owner and value of the property. Tenants are often given, some have quite detailed descriptions of the property.
The TNA leaflet gives the record series containing the cataloge series for the plans and field books.
The survey was done ca 1911 following the introduction of a new tax on the rise in value of land - introduced in the 1910 Budget by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George. Hence, the survey is sometimes known as the Lloyd George Domesday.
A second source is the local copies in county record offices. These differ in that there is less room to fit in the information. They consist of the properties in tabular form (the field books have two pages per property) as far as I can tell they were drawn up locally (probably from ratebooks) at the start of the survey. So they can differ from the field books which are the end result of the survey.
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The start of a Field Book entry and a segment from a map/plan.
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I never realised how interesting this was going to be.
Thank you all so much for taking the trouble to help me.
Mushroom Cottage stood alone in a field.
At that time, my grandfather owned 10 cottages on the main road in Normanby.
A council house estate was built where the cottage had stood.
I have an 1896 OS map, which shows Mushroom Cottage standing alone.
The council house which the family moved into, was only several hundred yards away from where the cottage had been.
:-\
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Hi Emm,
There is also the Registry of Deeds which is located in the West Yorkshire Archives Dept building in Wakefield. Perhaps it may be worth contacting them :-\
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/index.asp?pg=ablocw.html
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It's not the records at TNA that I complain about, it's those guides to them. Virtually incomprehensible (to me at any rate)!
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@ redroger ;)
Maidmarion - that just seems to be for the West Riding, I am afraid.
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Hi Emm,
Sorry I saw Normanby and thought of the one in West Yorkshire.... ::)
http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3140
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I agree with Regroger about the guides at TNA.
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I agree with Regroger about the guides at TNA.
I guess they may not make a lot of sense unless you have a grasp of their cataloguing system - I find them very useful if I am venturing into a new area at TNA.
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After 14 years I've still not fully grasped the system. Perhaps I'm either thick, or am seeing things that are not really problems with the system.
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Now that I have found a reference at the TNA to them having an 1896 London census then I hope to make another visit there soon.
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After 14 years I've still not fully grasped the system. Perhaps I'm either thick, or am seeing things that are not really problems with the system.
Oh my . . . what chance have I got, then.
:(
I have been to the National Archives link.
The page had - Catalogue reference, and Region.
So, I clicked on Yorkshire Region.
And, the page which came up, said . . . Title
Board of Inland Revenue: Valuation Office: Finance Act 1910, Record Sheet Plans: Yorkshire Region: York District
Covering dates c.1840-1920
Availability Open
Held by
The National Archives, Kew
???
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Unusually I can see what that one means immediately, but the jargon is the problem on many occassions, but as a former member of a Yorkshire based valuation panel not to me this time.
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Is it just because I am tired. Or am I thicker than thick.
Are you meaning that you can normally see what that means, but can't this time?
???
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Hi again,
The valuation records are fairly easy to use, but there are a couple of stages to go through - it took me, a novice in this, two or three hours at the National Archives to find a) the leaseholder living in my house in 1913 and b) the name of the freeholder. I found studying the PRO guide Maps for Family History (author William Foot) useful preparation before my visit. Staff are on hand to help too.
Regards
Rob
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Are we talking about visiting the National Archives in person, snowball?
I am at the other end of the country.
:)
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I was referring to the valuation panel headings etc. Reply No 18 posted by Emm, but I think that my previous experiences in this field may have helped me, as I don't feel any brighter than usual.
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Are we talking about visiting the National Archives in person, snowball?
I am at the other end of the country.
:)
The Valuation Survey records for the whole country (England & Wales) are at TNA (catalogue series IR58)- yes you do need to visit in person.
However, local county record offices will often have what are known as the Lloyd George Domesday books. These were prepared early in the valuation survey and used locally to collate the information that went into the books at Kew. Different format one line per property across a double page spread of a large ledger), and perhaps a few months earlier (so some owners/tenants will have changed).
Of course they don't help either if you live in Yorkshire and are interested in a property in Devon ...
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Normanby is close to the south bank of the Tees.
I am close to the north bank, now.
:)
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Emm, I see that you live in the area, you may be able to find something at the Teesside Archives in Middlesbrough (in the old Exchange Place). Try this, there are a few mentions of cottages in Normanby:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/080x/
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Thanks for that, Roobarb.
I did visit the archives last year, when I was looking for maps of Normanby. They were most helpful.
Time I went to see them again, I think.
;)