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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: MairiD on Saturday 30 January 10 23:31 GMT (UK)
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The Lownie family, four generations connected with weaving in and around Forfar, had Auchterlonie
and Auchterlownie on some documents, Lownie on others. They were known locally as the Lownies.
They illustrate this '........upon the lands of Lownie ( the original property of the old Forfarshire family of Auchterlony) and in King's Muir adjoining....'
I traced them back to David Lownie, a wheelwright of Burnside Toll-bar and Agnes Shepherd who had sons John, 1796, Mains and Strathmartine and George, 1805, Forfar. They may also have had an Agnes b.c. 1801.
As mentioned in another post no MC can be found for this couple. The IGI gives a David Lounie marrying an Agnes Shepard in Abdie in 1790. SP have no fully matching document unfortunately.
If they are the same couple then there is a probable link to the Auchterlonies of Fife who can be traced back to the early 1600s, if not earlier, in Ceres.
A connection to George Lownie, vintner, of Dundee and his wife Mgt. Morison/Murison would, if proved, appear to lead to a link with Fife as well.
Given that there were Auchterlonies/Ochterlonies in Angus and neighbouring counties for generations back to the early 1600s too, the earlier Lownies of this family are proving hard to trace. (I am also cross-eyed studying the various spellings of Auchterlonie. )
Some people state the Fife and Angus Auchterlonie families were not connected, others say they were.
Has anyone here tracked an Auchterlonie/lownie family with roots solely north of the Tay?
MairiD.
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Have you read Blacks "Surnames of Scotland" it outlines the origins of Auchterlonie. From memory there are 26 variant spellings. My family name is Lonie being the shorten version of Auchterlonie. I can trace Lonie back to 1632 in Edinburgh at Glen Corse (Glen Cross) forgive my spelling. Mostly the were from Craig Millar and Liberton then Midlothian area. There were lots of families using both spellings in areas. There is a gentleman by the name of Walter Savage in Melbourne Australia that had tracked all the families and broke them down to clans during his research. My family left Edinburgh in 1858 for Dunedin New Zealand and I presently live in Queensland and I have some of Walters research papers. There are a lot of Lonie's in Australia and New Zealand.
Lonie from the Gaelic (somthing Lonidh) means a pathway. Auchter means "high" - as it comes from the area of the Ochil Hills in Scotland. Though I have seen it translated as "a field of blackbirds". Auchterlonie family coat of arms haves multiples of 8 buckles/scallops on the shield - aucht is 8 in german funny that ! From my understanding the Auchterlonie's lives amoung the Picts and they were east coast Scots so non clanish. There is an Ochterlonie Tartan but I dont know the background.
The earliest was Woutier de Aughterlowny - who signed the Ragman Roll in 1296 as an act of Fielty to King Edward Longshanks. Remember Braveheart - William Wallace did not sign it - so he was treated as a traitor.
When the Lonie's dropped the Auchter they often kept it as a 2nd or third christian name
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Hi
A am researching the Auchterlonies of Fife. I was interested in what you said about a possible link between the Angus and Fife branches through David Lownie and Agnes Shepherd. Do you have any more information on this as I haven't been able to find out anything about them apart from the IGI listing of their marriage.
Thanks
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Have not been on here as regularly as I used to be and have just seen your message.
No, I don't have any other information on David Lownie and Agnes Shephard, other than the BCs of sons, John and George, the couple's residence and the marriage (Fife) info. on IGI.
I have not been able to find out when the couple died either. There are gaps in the Angus records which seem to link up with this missing information.
I did think of contacting the Archive centre in Forfar as I felt I had exhausted records online eighteen months ago but have yet to do this.
Am still curious as to whether their forebears were the Fife Auchterlonies or the Angus ones who way back were granted lands in Forfarshire.
Mairi.
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Apologies, Denchfield, for not acknowledging your very interesting post of a year ago! The detail in it is wonderful.
Many thanks.
MairiD
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Mostly the were from Craig Millar and Liberton then Midlothian area.
Both Craigmillar and Liberton are in the county of Midlothian, so if they lived in either of those they were already in Midlothian.
G F Black says that the surname is of territorial origin from the lands of Auchterlonie in Angus.
There were lots of families using both spellings in areas. There is a gentleman by the name of Walter Savage in Melbourne Australia that had tracked all the families and broke them down to clans during his research.
A clan, generally, is larger than a family - a clan contains families rather than the other way round!
Lonie from the Gaelic (somthing Lonidh) means a pathway. Auchter means "high" - as it comes from the area of the Ochil Hills in Scotland. Though I have seen it translated as "a field of blackbirds".
'Auchter' is usually from Gaelic 'uachdar' meaning, as you say, a high place. However it could be from 'achadh' meaning field. 'Blackbird' is 'lon-dubh' or simply 'lon', which can also mean a marsh or morass. It's anybody's guess, really, whether the name means 'high marsh' or 'field of blackbirds' or something entirely different.
Auchterlonie family coat of arms haves multiples of 8 buckles/scallops on the shield - aucht is 8 in german funny that !
It's actually 'acht' not 'aucht'. I wouldn't lay too much significance on that. I wonder whether the scallops have anything to do with family members making pilgrimages to Santiago de Compostela?
From my understanding the Auchterlonies lives amoung the Picts
They certainly lived in parts of Scotland which had been in Pictland, but the Picts had been absorbed by the time the Normans came along, so they would not have been contemporaries of the Auchterlonies.
they were east coast Scots so non clanish
Certainly all the early references to the name seem to have been in Fife and Angus, and only later do they appear in, for example, Glasgow.
There is an Ochterlonie Tartan but I dont know the background.
There are no modern tartans which can be authentically ascribed to a particular clan before the 18th century. As a Lowland family, not a Highland clan, the Auchterlonies are unlikely to have worn tartan or kilts until Highland dress was reinvented in the early 19th century. I expect the Auchterlonie tartan dates from this time too.
The earliest was Woutier de Aughterlowny - who signed the Ragman Roll in 1296 as an act of Fielty to King Edward Longshanks. Remember Braveheart - William Wallace did not sign it - so he was treated as a traitor.
Several points of interest here. The given name Woutier (Walter) points firmly at a Norman background. (G F Black also mentions a John de Othirlony who appears in the register of the abbey of Arbroath in 1226-9, 70 years before Woutier)
William Wallace was a Scot, a subject of the King of Scots. King Edward of England had no right to regard him as a traitor, because he was never one of King Edward's subjects. If Walter de Auchterlony, a Scot, gave an oath of fealty to the King of England, that could have been held to be an act of treason towards the King of Scots, except that even some of the Kings of Scots did homage to the Kings of England for the estates they owned in England.
And as for the film 'Braveheart' - the kindest thing you can say about it is that it contains a load of historical inaccuracies - it isn't a reliable guide to anything other than Hollywood's lack of interest in authenticity!
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Thank you for the corrections to my posts. My family have lived 5 generations away from Scotland and local knowledge I do not have.
I do have my own family tree plus I have the trees of the Ceres Auchterlonie's (David Auchterlonie & Agnes Falkland) plus the Tree of the Leslie Auchterlonies - I believe they are the Golfing family of the St Andrews area.
I tried to post them to a recent message but that failed.
If anyone wants the word documents please email me on :
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I am happy to share what I have. The work on these trees is not mine so I cant guarantee the contents.
I have yet to get my Lonie surname back to the Auchterlonie form in the area of Midlothian. Both Surnames were used in the area, and some folk used either or both forms of the surname dropping the Auchter then picking it up again.
The highest persons in my Family Tree is a James Lonie born c 1660 Glencorse married to a Hellen Hogge 1683 she was born 1664. Her parents were a Robert Hog b. 1638 married 1663 to a Margaret Wilson b.1642. This is all in the IGI. One of their daughters took the surname Hogge not Lonie.
For clarification the use of the word CLAN was not meant as in a SCOTTISH CLAN. It was meant as a FAMILY GROUPING within a family surname - like a PET name to distinguish one group from another. As they all had the same surname it was just a method of separation.
Regards
Kevin Lonie
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This is all in the IGI
Is the IGI information 'extracted' or 'submitted'?
Because if it's 'extracted' it's usually reliable, but it it's 'submitted' it could be someone's total fantasy. The 'Miscellaneous Countries' section, for instance, has the gods and goddesses from Norse mythology!
The IGI is an index, not a primary source, and it is an absolutely fantastic finding aid. Howevere there is quite a lot there which is inferred, or guesswork. It is always good practice to check anything you find there by looking at the original document, and if the information is 'submitted', such a check is essential.
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Thanks for the reply. The information was submitted by a Daniel M Fernie of Utah. He could be a LDS member. My mail was returned from his listed address. I understand your caution.
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has anyone got a Crawford Aucterlonie from Cuper in their family
Elizabeth
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I have an Auchterlonie Tree from Ceres. There is a David Auchterlonie 1816/1892 listed with a wife Jane/Jean Crawford. This surname in next generations has become a christian name. If you want the tree read my messages and email me and I will give it to you.
Kevin Lonie aka Denchfield
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Hello
Yes i would love a look at your tree
Crawford Aucterlonie married my grt grt aunt she was a Turnbull from Berwick one of their family emigrated to Australia where my grt aunt was living and the family kept in contact I think they still do
Elizabeth
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So sorry I thought i was sending a Pm
thank you for removing my mail address
I had just posted it and was too late to stop it going
Elizabeth
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Since my earlier post my line descends from David Auchterlonie/Lony and Agnes Faulkland from Ceres Fife who wed in 1685.
I had by mistake gone up a wrong branch, which has now been corrected.
Our family by 1718 had dropped the Auchter and have used Lonie to this day.
So far we cannot get back beyond David's birth c1660 - but where ? I have seen that some are listing his father as a George - cant see any proof, but Agnes's father was a George.
It is most likely that they may have come from Angus where I can see probable parents. So far I have seen two Davids and one James all born around c1660 as the top of three trees and so far these trees don't touch ! I may have to look at the wills if they exist for the Angus Ochterlonie members.
Some Ochterlonie's in Angus had sons by those names about 1660 - its less than 50 miles away ? Sorry just working from a map scale.
Is there anything you can share with me.
Regards
Kevin Lonie
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my 5x great grandmother was Agnes Auchterlonie, married to James Lock; they had six children, all born in Liberton, Midlothian, between 1751 and 1761. Agnes has been my brick wall for a long time, which is really frustrating considering her unusual name. I have found a possible birth for her in South Leith, Midlothian in 1717. her marriage to James Lock would seem to distance her from the Auchterlonies in Fife, as the Agnes Auchterlonie there married James Fyall.
I don't think this is going to help anyone - but it is good to unload the frustration to people who are finding the same difficulties!
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I'm new to this site thus new to this conversation.
Denchfield, may I impose on you for your tree for David Auchterlonie and Agnes Faulkland?
Thank you,
B