RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: monica meg on Saturday 30 January 10 18:01 GMT (UK)
-
I would appreciate any pointer's to help with another family legend.
My G Grandfather, so it was whispered kept a house of ill repute, during WW2 in Lower Peover, Cheshire. Apparently my father was sent to him from Manchester during the war, after word reaching my Grandmother of the situation, he was quickly collected and returned home.
His name was Benjamin Burnett born 1873 in Salford, Wife Ellen born 1876 in Manchester.
I do not know where to start with this, and cannot trace death index's and have no information on Lower Peover.
Not sure if I really want to verify this :o
monica meg
-
One possibility would be the electoral registers for the area, both before and after WW2. Most of these still survive, and would give a good idea of the number and gender of adults in the premises at the time. Then, assuming you are able to establish the address look in the local newspapers, or possibly the Sunday papers for any reports concerning the premises. Good hunting, and don't let your finds put you off.
-
Thanks Redroger, being new to this, oh okay a numpty I do not know how to access electoral registers, could you give some advice. This could help me learn more and may help in other areas of research.
monica meg :-[
-
The local reference library should have them, failing that, if you are within range and sufficiently mobile the British Library in St. Pancras has a very complete set. The problem with them is that they are arranged by parliamentary constituency and are listed in address order, since 1973 though prior to that some rural areas had them listed in surname area, which would help find your ancestors but could make locating others at the address more difficult. There is always Kelly's directory for the area which usually gives the name of the head of the household only in respect of residential addresses. If the place concerned was a public house then there is usually a separate listing which makes things easier. Hope this helps.
-
Just looked and find it's near Knutsford, and still has a parish council which suggests in WW2 it may have been very rural. Ask the Reference Library at Knutsford which constituency it's in now, and which it was in on the 1935 and 1945 electoral registers. They should at least be able to give you directions to a book which has it. Then proceed as I outlined in previous posts, if it is as rural as it seems then it shouldn't be too difficult once you find the register.
-
Hi,
Not sure if this will be useful but during WWII until about 1950 Peover Hall was requisitioned for use by General George Patton and the US Army.
;)
Luzzu
-
Some people might consider this requisition to make it a house of ill repute, but since you now know the address it makes pre and postwar identification smewhat easier.
-
Think I may pour a small whisky before I start this one
This family history addictive.
monica meg ;)
-
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting the US army had made Peover Hall a house of ill repute. I was just thinking there might be a need for such a place nearby, if you know what I mean.
I think Peover Hall is in between Lower and Over Peover. Redroger is right, Peover was very rural and to a certain extent still is.
Luzzu
-
I would imagine that would certainly be the case, either "In house" or within easy travelling distance, though being the US Army they may have made arrangements for transportation, or have I watched The Dirty Dozen too many times? If that is the case about transportation it may be necessary to widen the search area.Make that 2 small or one large whisky!
-
I can't help with where it would have been, but Peover Hall is definitely Over Peover - you have to go up the drive to the hall and through the courtyard to get to the church (St Lawrence).
This link should show you where the Lower and Over Peover (also know as Peover Superior & Peover Inferior) are in relation to each other (A is St Oswald's, Lower Peover and B is St Lawrence, Over Peover - you can see how remote St Lawrence is):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07yd/
Jean
-
Cheers, will check it out, if I can still see, will make the whiskies smaller. Personally, I suspect it may have been just in the nearby area as the family member was previously a cotton dyer in m/cr, so maybe just a little sideline? if that makes sense.
-
There were also GIs in Hale, Cheshire which is not that far from Lower or Over Peover, my mum had relatives there and it was just a bus ride for us to visit them. Not sure where they were stationed though as I only knew them at the Drill Hall.
I was only a little girl at the time, but I do remember the black GIs had to wait outside the Drill Hall in Hale whilst the white GIs had their meals and then they could have theirs. My family only lived a hundred or so yards from the Drill Hall and I used to talk to the GIs. The one I remember best was black GI called George. As I was a very little girl at the time, only nearly 5 when the war ended, I wasn't given nylon stockings but chewing gum and sweets (which the GIs called Candy of course). ;D
Lizzie
-
Thanks Lizzie, all info is valuable, I would'nt have known Hale was a bus ride away, difficult when you don't know the area, and in the war what was possible as far as travel is concerned.
Will check out the drill hall,.
Like the picture you paint of the GI's ( not the blacks having to wait outside)
Regards monica meg :)
-
Hi Meg
It was after the war I used to visit either Lower or Over Peover with my mum can't remember now. I know we used to just get a bus (probably from Altrincham) although I really don't remember. I doubt there's a bus service now.
Lizzie
-
It was shown as Lower Peover on the map I googled yesterday.Possibly a suitably worded letter to the local paper mentioning no names of course, but asking if anyone remembers the house of ill repute might be useful.
-
Hi
The best newspaper to contact would be the Knutsford Guardian which comes out every wednesday and has quite a wide circulation in the area. Peover is not that far from Knutsford.
It might also be worth checking with the guardian if they have any stories in their archives which mention a house of ill repute.
There are still busses from altrincham into Knutsford and surrounding towns.
Jill
-
Just a thought but might be able to see if anyone remembers anything about a house like this in peover.
Not living in Knutsford at present but my parents still do. Will ask dad to have a word with his cronies :) :) in his local and see if they can come up with anything.
-
Thanks to all, lots of pointers, Googled round Peover area etc last night. Up to now I cannot even find his death, which would be helpful, a family member tells me he was about in 1952, but as a baby he has no personal recollection of him.Will look at newspapers suggested. Apprecicated if Jill will ask her rellies in the area.
Advice again excellent,
Regards monica meg
-
Hi
This any good for the death - right age but not sure about the area:
Benjamin Burnett
June quarter 1953
Aged 80
Barton Lancs 10b 255
Jan
-
Seems to be some way away, there are several in Lancashire, the one I googled near Preston has a bedroom to let on the site. Is this just a coincidence?
-
Hi
This any good for the death - right age but not sure about the area:
Benjamin Burnett
June quarter 1953
Aged 80
Barton Lancs 10b 255
Jan
This is the death I would have gone for. I think Barton is Salford way because there is Barton Bridge near Salford Quays formerly Manchester Docks
Luzzu
-
just another quick thought, is it possible that the house of ill repute was actually a public house and that your g grandad was the publican at the time.
There is a pub called the bells of peover where servicemen drank during the war.
www.rudymaxa.com/article.php?ArticleID=106
Have asked dad to ask around so fingers crossed
Jill
-
Monica, there is a book (which I thought I had a copy of but can't find at the moment) about Cheshire in the War. It has photo's of bases etc. If you can find this it might prove useful. I am still looking!
Regards
Kathb
-
You are all doing overtime, I think the Barton one looks good Jan and Luzzu, as most of the family seemed to live round Pendleton, if memory serves me a stones throw away. I married in Swinton, but it was registered in Barton!!! Kathb if you get more info on the book let me know,Will check out the pub Jill.
Barton swing I remember as a child, dad driving over it to visit family, I used to close my eyes I did not trust it had swung back properly, I still have a large photo of it, just to give me the heebee's.
Better feed the animals oh and hubby then get to work on this.
To alll thanks a million
monica meg ;D
-
Sorry to be dim, but I cannot find the death index Jan and Luzzu found, could you possibly tell me where you got it, I subcribe to FindMyPast so if it was Ancestry I can't access it.
monica meg :-[
-
Hi - I did get it from Ancestry, but I've just checked and it is on FindMyPast
Go to Birth Marriages and Deaths, click on deaths 1837 - 1983.
Put in April - June 1953 and Burnett and the page should come up.
Let me know if you still can't find it.
Jan
-
Thanks Jan, I tried Free BMD, as FindMyPast for BMD confused me, and before I had the subsciption I got used to the Free site,great explanation.
Regards monica meg
-
;D
Thanks Jan, I have got the death index for Benjamin Burnett, I braved FindMyPast with your explanation, the census reports were easy , I but used ti aviod the BMD's. All a learning curve.
Cheers monia meg
-
Can't help you at all but just wanted to say that I wish one of my ancestors had run a house of ill repute. Can't find any of them being naughty at all. Most boring! ;)
-
Keep at it! Remember, even the Medieval Popes had "Nephews"
-
just another quick thought, is it possible that the house of ill repute was actually a public house and that your g grandad was the publican at the time.
Jill
My mother certainly regarded our local which was taken over by the GIs and their English girl friends as such. Although I am not sure that I was old enough to understand what a house of ill repute was at the time.
David
-
:o
Just wondering, if this family legend, proves true what else I will find, I feel the pub angle is worth a crack at, just a feeling though.
The family discription of the chap is colourful, Cream jacket and boater hat, sounds like a cheshire polition, maybe he was very succesful as a "keeper" as the family is ordinary, not weathly, I'm still waiting for heir hunters to call and prove me wrong. Will advise if I manage to solve this.
monica meg ;D ;D ;D
-
A visit to this site may prove useful. One can ask questions - both family history and local history - in the History section
www.virtual-knutsford.co.uk
Regards
Reiver
-
Hi Monica Meg
Dad has been asking around but no joy so far I'm afraid :(
Will let you know if anything does come up though
Jill
-
Appreciate that Jill, no rush, I have few avenues to try, and research on the other side of the family.If in the future you have any little snippets it all help's build the picture.Last night I found Peoples memories of WW2 in Cheshire, one chap said his mum would not use the local air raid shelter because of "ladies business activities at night", never know maybe my family member was in the home guard or similar, and just turned a blind eye for a cut??? as he was 66 years old when WW2 broke out.I have some of his war record for WW1, he was in the trenches along with 2 sons, who all survived, must have been good at keeping his head down!!
Thanks to all
monica meg ;)
-
:)Sorry Reiver, missed your posting last night, I still get overexcited being a novice, just had a quick look, think it will keep me busy for a while.
Thanks again to all for the help and advice.
monica meg
-
Thanks all for advice, I will make some postings round cheshire, and I think later in the year I may also be in England, so can maybe take some time in the Peover area.
If and when I solve this I will post again, It's nice to know what happens when you all give your time and efforts.
Thanks a million
monica meg ;D ;D ;D
-
Hi Monica Meg
Dad has drawn a blank I'm afraid. I think the best bet would be the Knutsford Guardian.
Sorry couldn't be much more help
Good hunting
Jill
-
Thanks Jill for your efforts, I think it will be a slow process, the problem is it was so long ago and unless there was official intervention, there will be no hard evidence, but it is a family legend and I'm intrigued, just as well I like a challenge. :)
Thanks again Jill much appreciated and also everyone else who have given advice
When solved I will post back on this.
Kind regards monica meg
-
I am posting this on behalf of new member Albiano, who accidently clicked on the "report to moderator button" instead of the "reply" button. - Sarah :)
ben burnett my g.grandfather died in eccles mc age 80 have his death cert.
-
re house of ill repute.
My great grandfather was benjamin burnett born 1873 salford and my great grandmother was ellen burnett nee boswell born manchester i think in angel meadows. I have a death cert. saying
benjamin burnett born 1873salford died in eccles 1953 aged 80 he worked in a cotten factory i
am sure this is my great grandfather my family know nothing about house of ill repute also you
say his wife ellen was born 1875 76 so was my geat grandmother i find all this strange
NELLY100
-
The enquiry concerning the house of ill repute was from a family legend which i was trying to prove or dismiss.
From your post it looks probable there is a link , if so I think your grandfather would be either Benjamin born 1897 Ernest born 1901 or Lawrence born 1910. My grandfather was the 3rd son in the line Terence born 1903.
I would be pleased to exchange more information if there is a link
Monica Meg :)