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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire => England => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: John Blackwell on Saturday 30 January 10 10:39 GMT (UK)
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:-\
Have traced dad's ancestors back to 1795 via censuses (should that be censii?), am struggling to find:-
1) Birth, marriage death records, without paying hefty fees. Only have years of birth (within 1 year) from census.
2) Cannot decipher some occupations, employers, etc from handwriting on forms.
Family originated from Sheepshed (now Shepshed) in Leicestershire. One firm's name looks like St P N K (Cotton)
Also, if anyone is trying to trace the Barker family of Leicestershire, have records back to late 1600's.
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would you like to post names and y.o.b. and which census you are having difficulty reading???
Maybe we can help
There is a William Blackwell c.1825 living Shepshed and later Loughborough -his occupation was Frame Work Knitter - usually written as F.W.K. and sometimes Cotton, wool or silk follows this -depending on what kind of yarn they used-sometimes it will state cotton hose/silk hose -mainly it just states F.W.K. Could this be your P.N.K.???
You can look up free on FreeBMD for registrations from Sept qtr 1837 - usually you can work out the correct person from p.o.b.
Pre 1837 you have to look in parish records
The IGI -free at familysearch is useful for baptism dates -trustworthy are the extracted records - treat "member submitted" records with caution.
Unfortunately you need to purchase "key " certificates for full information (£7 from G.R.O.) or visit the records offices
Why not post exactly what you are looking for on here -names, dates, etc- someone may have the answer -or at least be able to tell you where certificates ar e necessary (always a good idea if you can purchase some )
What do you mean by "one firm looks like St P.N.K. (Cotton)" ?
If If this is a from a census form, census do not usually (1841-1901) give the name of the "firm" -just the occupation and then whether "worker" or "employer"
Suz
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:) Thanks for that Suz.
Census is 1861 for Shepshed. Ref RG 9/2276 Page 47, Entry 34 - Charles Blackwell.
You could be right with 'Framework knitter', but what is the "St" that appears before initials?
Have used FreeBMD but does not give enough detail, and often, a search does not produce anything at all.
There was a William ( born app 1826) appearing on 1841 census as older sibling of direct descendant (Charles) of my father. So if you can give me sources for him, can add detail to tree.
Can I visit records offices and get detail without purchasing copy certificates? If so, where is the nearest to Loughborough.
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Hi,
Have just checked census - Charles Occupation is F.W.K. (cotton)=Frame Work Knitter
before it does say (what looks like) "St"
if you look at other occupations on page -some of them (mainly seamstresses) have what looks like "St" before them - although I think it is "H" -which could mean "home" - as apposed to "Factory" or "hose"
FreeBMD gives enough information to be able to purchase certificate
maybe you are not looking in correct district or years.
Parish records are also a help
Everything is not on line -and FreeBMD is not complete as it is still being transcribed by volunteers -they are doing a brilliant job
yes you can visit record offices and no charge is made -only a photocopying charge- but it is not as easy as saying e.g. John Smith b abt 1860 married 1880
you will need to be more certain of where events took place -reg districts cover large areas-marriages can mean searching several churches.
You need to narrow the search as much as possible before a visit
Suz
I'll look up William
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Do you have other documentation naming William as Charles brother??
As you know 1841 census does not give relationships -it just names who was in the house on census night their age (adults over 15 years ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years) and "yes" or "no" as to wether they were born in the county they were living in.
So although William is listed as being with John and Rebbeca and other children it doesn't necessarily mean William is their child.
IGI extracted -source Bishops transcripts for Sheepshed 1522-1892 C of E parish Church of Sheepshed there are these baptisms
All at Sheepshed Leics
All with parents John Blackwell and Rebekah
Charles Blackwell 16 Mar 1834
Rebeckah Blackwell 15 May 1836
John Blackwell 15 May 1827
Joseph Blackwell 16 April 1832 -died 28 May 1832
Elizabeth Blackwell 17 Nov 1861 adult christening -age 16 at date of christening
No william???
then there is IGI -extracted
William Blackwell christened 25 Dec 1825 Sheepshed leics
Parents William Blackwell and Rebbeckah
William is the only child I can find baptised to Wiliam and Rebecca
so did Rebecca (spelling varies) marry William Blackwell -William died and she then remarried to John???
or is the parentage on William's baptism/christening an error???
sUZ
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I have found this on IGI -although it is a member submitted record so should be treated with some cautiion
Marriage
15 Nov 1824 Sheepshed leics
Rebecca Cotton
John Blackwell
if this is correct then William could be their son
there is also this
IGI extracted
John Blackwell
christened 8 mar 1795
Medbourne Leics
Parents William Blackwell/Hannah
"Your" John Blackwell from 1851 consistently on census puts d.o.b. as 1795 and p.o.b. as medbourne
so if John's father was William it is quite possible at the baptism/christening an error occured and William (son of John) 's father was entered as William??????
You can look at this yourself free at www.familysearch.org
I hope you are finding this information helpful on how to search
before I post anymore I am going to ask poster "MikefromLeicester" to take a look as he is brilliant with things leicester based
Suz
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Thanks, that's great Suz.
I think I follow you. However I did find reference to a Blackwell living with grandfather, but can't remember where I found it now, but I think your assumption is probably right. They asked John for the father's name & he gave HIS father's name (William) possibly.
Am going to Loughborough Library on Tuesday to try & get more background with research volunteers.
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Post back your findings -we love to help where we can
Suz
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Greeting’s. …Folks.
Your mysterious Abv…… St. :~
This is the Census enumerators shortening of :~ …… Stocking.
Which matches the occupation given for John on the 1861. Census returns
RG. 9. / 2276. / 30. / Page. 16.
That of Frame Work Knitter Worsted Stocking.
Regarding the Marriage found by Suzard 1824. is a TRUE Record.
INDEX Transcription via my Early Leicestershire Marriages
Read thus :~
St: Botolph Parish Church.
Shepshed.
MARRIAGES ANNO DOMINI. :~ 1824.
John Blackwell. ~ Rebecca Cotton.
15th. November.
By Banns.
John….
If you do go to the Loughborough Library this Tuesday
Then pay attention to the details of this Marriage.
See if John was a Bachelor & if his Parish at the time of the marriage was Melbourne or it might just state of this Parish.
Also pay attention to Rebecca’s details to see if she too was a Spinster or a Widow ….this will determine if Rebecca was married before to a William.
( Although I can not see a Marriage of a William to a Rebecca either in Shepshead or Melbourne.)
This relates to that Baptism event were a William Son of William & Rebecca Blackwell 1825.was Baptised 25th. December at Shepshed.
But like Suzard. .... I’m of the opinion that when John was asked
for the Father’s name….. John misunderstood the Clark / Minister and give His Fathers name William ……… instead of his own name of John.
This could be cleared up by having a close look at the Baptism Registers for St: Botolph’s 1825. at the Library.
Pay attention to details it usually reads thus :~
Registers Entry No’….. Date of Bapt. With the
William son of John & Rebecca.
Blackwell.
Abode …….Of Shepshed.
Fathers Occupation……..
And the end column is the name of the officiating Minster.
In the meantime here are the Burial details for both John & Rebecca.
St: Botolph Parish Church. Shepshed.
1865.
Parish Burial Register No’, 1849.
John Blackwell.
Abode. …Shepshed.
19th. September.
Aged. 70.
1875.
Register No’. 2330.
Rebecca Blackwell.
Abode……..Shepshed.
16th. December.
Aged. 73.
If your still are having problems after your visit to the Library this Tuesday
Just ask again and I’ll see what I can find out at my visit to the County Records Office this coming Thursday…….
MIKE……………..
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OK Mike, will let you know how I get on.
If you get chance @ records office - see if you can find any details re William Blackwell and Hannah showing as John's parents at his christening in Medbourne/Melbourne, Leics.
Don't worry if you don't have time, they've waited over 200 years, so a few more won't hurt! ;D
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Greeting’s Again……John.
Ah !.... but ….Medbourne/Melbourne, = separate villages... ::)
Medbourne is in the South of the County close to Northamptonshire
Melbourne is in the North of the County close to Breeden – on – the Hill
Unfortunately the Parish registers for this village are held at the
Records Office Matlock which covers South Derbyshire
Which Melbourne comes under……
MIKE. ……
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Sorry, thought records might have been transcribed incorrectly, as never heard of Medbourne - According to records seen, it is definitely Medbourne, Leics.
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Information deleted as it was for the wrong Village
MIKE…….
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One of us is confused! (Probably me!) You appear to be looking up Melbourne which IS in Derbyshire, but John and parent (William) came from Medbourne, which is in Leicestershire, surely.
Can't see that village in South of Leics, would come under South Derbys? ???
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Greeting’s Again. John……..
Sorry….I had my wires crossed. …..
Location of Medbourne …..
Go to the Village of Hallaton which is to the east close to Uppingham
Then come down South we get Medbourne.
Found this Parish event :~
1795.
St: Giles Parish Church.
Medbourne.
John Son of William & Hannah Blackwell…..Bapt. 8th. March.
MIKE……….
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Thanks, but you have already given me that.
Looking for William & Hannah's details - John's parents. Assume as John was born & christened in Medbourne, then his mother &/or father probably were.
Don't worry about it now, It's late & you & Suz have earned a rest! Goodnight. Catch you later.
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hi John, Mike has asked me to take a look over here as i am the 'local girl' at hand in L'boro!
Medbourne records are available at market Harborough library only not L'boro.
loughborough local history library is a great place. lots of the L'boro all saints records and some village records have been indexed into folders so these can be checked before looking at fiche for further detail.
you will need to ask the librarian staff for the key to cabinet A ( fiche records) and possibly cabinet C (census) if they are not open. Brian the FHS chap is quite often about and very helpful. I may even be in the library tue am myself as i have a morning off work.
there are a lot of extra Shepshed records - ie lists of burials at St Botolphs/ think they have written census in folder.
anything else you would like to know please ask.
Diddy ;D
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:) OK. Might see you tomorrow.
Did ask Mike to look up something for Medbourne as he was going to Records Office in Leicester and assumed they would hold County records.
Have sent query to local vicar via a contact us button for church in Medbourne.
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Greeting’s Again. John……..
I could only find the following Blackwell event at the Records Office today.
Medbourne Cum Holt Parish Registers
BAPTISMS ANNO DOMINI :~ 1795.
John. Son of William & Hannah Blackwell……Bapt. 8th. March. Wm. Fenwicke Curate.
Several Baptisms with the parents William & Hannah BLACK
but no other Blackwell’s
Same for a possible Marriage of Wm. & Hannah Blackwell trawled the registers 1771.through to 1796
But drew a blank …..Sorry.
MIKE.
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OK, thanks for trying Mike.
Think that's the right one. Perhaps parents moved to Medbourne after marriage.
Where do I go from here, or is that the brick wall?
:-\
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Greeting’s Again. ….John.
Good question…….But having dived into my box of tricks..... :)
We Get :~
St: Giles Parish Church. Medbourne Cum Holt.
Parish Burial Registers.
1836. Burial Register. No’. 268.
HANNAH BLACKWELL.
Abode……Medbourne Cum Holt.
24th. July.
Aged. 67.
1850.
Burial Reg No’. 418.
WILLIAM BLACKWELL.
Abode at death…….Uppingham Workhouse.
4th. April..
Aged. 83
Will that do you for starters ? ...
MIKE…..
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That's brilliant Mike!
Poor Billy, really outlived his missus, but obviously couldn't cope without her!
Still plodding through Sheepshed records for later years, after they moved from Medbourne. Then going to Diseworth records to see if I can find a link to the landlady of The Plough @ Diseworth. (Might stake a claim!)
Really appreciate your efforts, as having gone through just a few microfiches last week, realise how time consuming & laborious it is!
Would be so much easier if the censuses went back earlier and had dates on!
Pity our branch of the Blackwells is going to die out, as between me & 5 siblings, only two boys come from the male side, and doesn't look like either of them is keen to settle & reproduce. Both in their mid 30's now. Dad's brothers produced no children at all.
John
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Greeting’s Again …..John.
Going on from my last posted information.
We Get:~
1841. Census returns HO 107 / 591. / Bk. 3. / Fol. 13. / Page. 20.
Leicestershire.
Within the Village of Medbourne
//
Sarah Orme. 50 / 60. ( Age not very clear) ..Born within the County.
William Ditto. 30. Taylor.
Jane. Ditto. 30.
Henry. Ditto. 25. Taylor.
Edward. Ditto.20 Taylor.
/
WILLIAM BLACKWELL. 70. Ag. Lab. NOT Born within the County
//
All the rest Born within the County.
Abv. :~
// ...Start & Finish of a Household.
/ ...Change of surname within the same Household.
1841. Census returns HO107 / 596. / Bk. 6. / Fol. 37. / Page. 6.
Leicestershire.
Shepshed.
The Lant .
John Blackwell 45. Frame Work Knitter.
Rebecca Wife.
Which brings us back to where we started………
They are still there in 1851 & 61.
John. b 1796 Medbourne Leicestershire.
MIKE……..
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Sorry - more questions!
1) I seem to remember you, or someone else on site, told me that ages were rounded down to nearest 5 on census. This would tie in with my calculated birth year of 1767 for William, as he would have been around 74 in 1841.
2) Could Sarah have been his daughter and either she predeceased him or had had enough of the old b**ger, so he was shipped off to workhouse!
3) What's with the Taylor, is this the mispelt occupation as you appear to list their surnames as Orme?
4) Does the 1841 Census show address?
5) Do you ever sleep?!!
::)
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Afternoon …John.
Answers as per your list………..
Ages….Yes ages were rounded DOWN to nearest multiple of five…..
Workhouse…..These were not only a shelter for paupers but it also was the earliest form of Infirmary.
Taylor……. “ Ye Olde English” for Tailor….I transcribe as seen on Image.
Address. ……NO……Just the principle address e.g. Church, Vicarages, ,,,and Pubs…..
Sleep…………In a word …not a lot………. ;D
Did you get the information you wanted from Loughborough Library ?
MIKE…………… ;)
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Thanks again.
Got three pieces of information, but need a lot more time there to go through records.
Put load of information on Family tree yesterday, but unfortunately PC lost it, so had to do it all again today! Now backed up to laptop, CD & flash drive! (Belt & braces)
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;D......What !!....No Six inch nails as well ? ..... ;D
Remember if you want help again just ask
But can you put your request thread on either
Leicestershire
Or Leicestershire look up threads
I'm about to ask the Moderators for this thread to be moved to Leicestershire look ups
as it will be see by many more people
MIKE.........
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OK.
Forgot to mention the on the marriage records for Sheepshed, that we were discussing, there was no mention of spinster, widow, etc. So will have to assume John WAS the father and got a bit confused, or something was going on which was not recordable!
Have also googled Uppingham workhouse (for Medbourne William) - looks a nice place - do they still provide accommodation and do I need to book?! Tactful with description of some residents as 'imbeciles'!!
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hi john, good to see you at the library. i assume you found THE workhouse site at:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
but just in case....
Diddy ;D
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i see the site is now used by Uppingham School - my son used to go there for fencing competitions - very polite students!! (swords not wooden!!)
Diddy
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No Wendy, I found the site by googling it and came up with;
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Uppingham/Uppingham.shtml
However, leads to same pages, just easier to find my way! :P
Notice you research Skillings - used to work for a Terry Skilling @ the Prudential. He was married to Caroline, who was an educational advisor and is connected to Early Learning type shop in Churchgate Mews, Loughborough. They lived on the main road in Quorn.
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Hi John, yes i know Caroline - i did a Meccano workshop for the children at one of her science clubs a couple of years ago.
My Skillings are on my mothers side and originate from Norfolk then on to Tyneside in the mid 1800s.
None of my family are from around here - I'm the first generation born out of Tyneside. both my parents are Geordies from Jarrow! my dad came down to Leics after university.
Diddy
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Might see you on Thursday morning if you're in, as my car is in for a service in the Rushes, so have decided to do a bit more research.
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Hey up Diddymiller ………
;D........“ He’s Hooked !!…….” ..... ;D
MIKE. ……
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Internet searching, yes. Microfiche, no!
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Hi John. I'm booked to work thursday so won't be there. say hi to Brian for me if hes there.
Doesn't take long does it Mike!!!
Diddy
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OK! You may say the lady doth protest too much! But, I'm not hooked and anyway, started this about 10 years ago, just not had time before!
Will say hi to Brian, if he's there and I recognise him as I'm terrible with names. Not a good quality in a genealogist!
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10 years and NOT hooked???.........
Diddy ;D
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;D.......“ And the Band played believe it if you may.? ……. ;D
Violins at the ready. ?…..
MIKE………. ;)
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Can you not hijack my thread please!!!
Not that I'm taking this seriously, of course!
;)
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Ah John, but would there be a thread without us?
Diddy, enjoying the banter.
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As I started it, yes there would be! And have now been stitched up by my own thread (Clever play on words, eh?)!
Changing the subject, yet again! Just had lovely meal & can really recommend The Greyhound @ Burton on the Wolds. Third time today and excellent food everytime.
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have been there quite a bit over the years although last time we called they wern't serving food :-[. can also recommend the orange tree in L'boro as my son is chef there ;D just around corner from library John!!
Diddy
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:) So not biased then!
Well, my son-in-law is chef at Junction 23 truckstop, so there!! And he went with us today.
Anyway, haven't you got any researching to do - this site is getting like Facebook!!
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Nah nah nah nah nah...
i don't go on facebook -all my children (adults )are on it!! actually we had a phone call from Aussie the other weekend to ask us why we hadn't told anyone about our daughter doing her first surgery - it was on Fbk. we didn't know!!
Diddy - you haven't given me anything to look up!! I've ground to a halt with all my lines and am having a break.
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anyway - I'm on other threads not just this one. helping on fife & Suffolk too for starters.
slave driver!!
Diddy
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Well start with 1901 census for Plough, Hall Gate, Diseworth and see if you can backtrack on Eliza Blackwell, as I want to see if her late husband was related to my Sheepshed or Medbourne clan.
And when you've done that...........................................................!!
Just been on FB and put a few sarky comments on friends' threads. Yes, I know it's not like me!!
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1901: Hall Gate, Plough,Diseworth
Eliza Blackwell H wid 64 Pub,inn keeper Shepshed
Rebecca Elizabeth Blackwell dau 28 Shepshed
Tom Allen Blackwell son 26 Joiner shepshed
YES Sir!!
Diddy
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1891: Hallgate, Diseworth
Eliza Blackwell wid 50 innkeeper
John A 25
Eliza 21
Sarah A 14
1881: Od plough,Hallgate
Charles Blackwell 42
Eliza 40
Charles N N 18
John H A 16
Eliza Ann 11
Rebecca E 9
Tom A 8
Isaac E 6
Sarah A 4
1871:The old Mill House,Shepshed
Charles Blackwell 37 FWK & Innkeeper
Eliza 34
Zachariah 15 FWK
Charles W 8
John A 6
Eliza 1
Diddy
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1861: forest st,Shepshed
Charles Blackwell 27 FWK
Eliza 24
Zachariah 5
Eliza A 3 mths
Diddy
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death:
Charles Blackwell june 1887 age 53 shardlow 7b / 249
Diddy ;D
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Looks left & right……..?
“ I know my place……”::)
Exits thread right……… Tail between legs. :'(>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MIKE. …( Ex Chef of over twenty years)
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OK - You've made your point! And you say I'm hooked!
Seriously, thanks a lot - saved me no end of time and you've done what anthropolgists have been trying to do for years - found the missing link!!
Mike - not just ex-chef, now ex champeen researcher!!
John
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Another ponderance!
What happened ro Rebecca, Tom & Isaac between 1881 & 1901 as they disappear from census in 1891?
Where's Dr Who (Time Lord) when you need him?
Don't expect you to answer that one, let's leave it to Mike to redeem himself.
You know, if I play you two off against each other, you could end up doing all my research for me!! lol
;D
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Burial details :~
1887.
St: Michael & All Angels Parish Church.
Diseworth.
Parish Burial Register No’. 671.
Charles Blackwell.
Abode….Diseworth.
8th. April.
Aged…53.
Ruff Ruff…..
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Mike - you didn't read the question!!
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Try this for size then............. :P
Just down the Road. ………………..
1891. Census Returns RG 12. / 2513. / 116./ Page. 1.
Shepshed.
London Road.
The Fox & Goose Inn.
William Butler. Head. Mar. 41. Inn Keeper. b Lancastershires
Mary Wife. 37. b Whitwick Leicestershire.
Elizabeth Dau. 9. Scholar. b Coalville. Leicestershire.
Annie Wortley. Ser. 22. Gen Servant. b Bardon. Leicestershire.
TOM ALLEN BLACKWELL. Ser. 17. Stable Boy. b Shepshed.
RG 12./ 2516. / 119. / Page. 13.
Shepshed.
The Bull Ring.
John Cooke. Head. Mar. 40. Fitter cast Iron Foundry
Sarah Ann. Wife. 36. Dressmaker.
William Onion. Father 81. Living on own means
Elizabeth Onion.Mother.79. Ditto.
R. ELIZABETH BLACKWELL. Niece 19. Dressmaker.
ALL Born Shepshed.
MIKE……. ;)
Just you wait till Diddy & myself bill comes in ...£....CHINK.... ;D
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And the other one. …….
Anc* as it transcribed as J. E. Blackwell
But on the image I make it I E Blackwell
RG. 12. / 2523. / 85. / Page. 1.
Leicestershire.
Barkby.
Main Street
Within the Household of William Perkins Farmer (amended occupation) :~
I. E. Blackwell. Ser. 17. Servant. b Shepshed.
MIKE……
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OK - You're back in the running!
Bill!!! What's one of those? If you're good, I'll buy you both a drink sometime.
When it says 'Framer', is this still to do with hosiery frames or pictures?
All I've got to do now is put all this info on tree, without losing it again!
Thanks both of you.
John
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Diddy.
On entering new information, I have doubts (well I am a man!). Can we be sure that the Blackwell family on 1881 & 1891 Census are the same as two earlier ones, as there are discrepancies in both ages and names? I also seem to remember that I found another Charles & Elizah (different spelling) with same kids as 1871, on 1881 Census, but still living in Shepshed.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure you're used to it!
Changing the subject; an Englishman, an Irishman & a Scotsman walk in to a bar. The barman says "Is this some kind of joke?"
John
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Ahh, see you to have been sparring (spelling?) while some of us have to work!! back from school & Tescos, now to play time!!
think info re census IS correct. look at names /ages 1861/71/81/91 also occupation charles -
1861; FWK
1871 FWK & Innkeeper
1881 /1891 innkeeper
Diddy
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Whilst there are similarities, there is an age difference of 5 years between two censuses. Can't put this down to rounding down as they have exact age for Charles (not to nearest 5 years). Any ideas?
;D When I told everyone I was going to be a comedian, they all laughed at me!
They're not laughing now!!
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Anyway, what's work?
Did it once, but didn't like it!!!
John
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well when i say work - I've been building boats out of tubs with the 5 year olds and floating them in water to see if they sink.....
which names/census are you looking at. quite often get discrepencies (wow word! for 5 year olds!) in ages in census.
Diddy
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Hope you don't teach spelling to children as there may be a few discrepancies.
Me a pedant?!! Never!!
The differences arise between 1871 & 1881. If you check parents' ages, they've only aged 5 years in 10. Also, some childrens' initials have changed, although this could be a transcription error.
John
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thats why its a WOW word - difficult for them to say let alone spell!!
I'm clocking off now - will leave you to ponder the Discrepancies!!
Diddy
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OK.
Need to leave something to do at the library on Thursday!
Have a good evening.
John
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Greeting’s Again……..John.
Whilst I was at the Records Office today …………
Spotted the Wills of both Charles & Eliza Blackwell of Diseworth.
Have you already got the details of these Wills ?
MIKE ……… ;)
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Thanks Mike.
No. Didn't even know they had wills!
Spent this morning at the library going round in circles and still haven't found when or where Eliza died, so any info, such as a will, would be welcome.
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Greeting’s John.
According to her will dated 7th. July.1909. Ammended date
she was still at the family Farm. Diseworth
Probate granted 31st January 1926.
So we look for a death 1st Quarter 1926.
MIKE……
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Shouldn't that be 1909?
If probate was granted then, was it that quick? Should I not consider year before?
Have checked burials for Diseworth, but only up to 1907 so far.
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Greeting’s John.
This one looks favourite for the moment.
July August September Qrt.1924 Amended year
Eliza Blackwell.
Shardlow District.
Aged. 90. ( b c 1835 )
Cert No’. 7b. 412.
Shardlow is in the same area as Diseworth. ….
MIKE……
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Yep, that looks promising - only about 2 years out from my estimated birth date for her, gleaned from censuses. Will have to check burials for that period, next time I'm in.
Question is, did she leave me any of the Blackwell millions? ;D
Off to bed now, catch you later. & thanks again.
John
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Greeting’s John.
I think you had to still keep your day job…… ;D
Charles's Personal Estate GROSS was only…….. £ 62. 11/6d..... :'(
But converting that into modern times
In 2008 that would have been :~
£ 5,184.12.p. Retail prices.
£33,043.89.p. Average earnings.
No mention of Gross Estate for Eliza........
Plus Eliza could only make her Mark on her Will.....X
And it all went to...... Tom Allen Blackwell......
MIKE……
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THIS IS the last Will and testament of Charles Blackwell of Diseworth in the Parish of Diseworth in the County of Leicestershire.
I HERBY device and the maintenance support and education of my younger children and for her life and for her benefit all of those cottages and Shop with the outbuildings and appendences thereto belonging situate in Charley Way in the Parish of Sheepshead in the County of Leicestershire.
ALSO I GIVE and bequeath to my said Wife all my effects both real and personal whatsoever and whatsoever and whatsoever and what nature and quality soever and I appoint TOM ALLEN BLACKWELL to do and hansad all business for my said Wife and my will is that at the death of my said Wife ELIZA BLACKWELL MY Executor Shall sell or cause to be sold as soon as possible my real estate before mentioned and all personal property.
Whatsoever and wherever and the amount realized to be equally divided share and share a like among my surviving children.
AND I HERBY appoint my said Wife and eldest Son ZACHARIAH BLACKWELL
My Executors and should my said Son ZACHARIAH die before his Mother.
I HEREBY empower my Wife to appoint another Executor in his stead.
IN WITNESS whereof I have hereunto set my hand.
THIS Twenty-ninth day of January One Thousand Eight Hundred and Eighty Seven.
……………………………………………….CHARLES BLACKWELL. …………………………………………………………
SIGNED by the said Charles Blackwell in the presence of us present at the same time who in his presence and presence of each other atest and subseute our names as witnesses hereto.
WITNESS ….
WILLIAM JOHNSON MILLS of Diseworth.
EDWARD ALFRED MILLS 10 Thurgarston Street Nottingham.
PROVED at Leicester on the Thirteenth day of May 1887.
BY THE OATHS of ELIZA BLACKWELL Widow and relic and ZACHARIAH BLACKWELL the Son the Executors to whom administration was granted
THE TESTATOR CHARLES BLACKWELL was late of Diseworth in the County of Leicester. Licensed Victualer and died on the Third Day of April 1887. ………….
at Diseworth aforesaid.
PERSONAL ESTATE GROSS £62.11/6d………………………No deductions
Wooleys. Beardsley and Bosworth Solicitors. Loughborough
MIKE.......
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LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT of ELIZA BLACKWELL of Diseworth in the County of Leicester. …………………………………………………………………………………………………………
This Seventh day of July in the year of our LORD One Thousand Eight Hundred and Nine……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
I HEREBY revoke all Wills and Testaments instructions heretofore made by me.
I APPOINT TOM ALLEN BLACKWELL ( My Son) of Diseworth in the County of Leicestershire. And SAMUEL TAYLOR. Schoolmaster of Diseworth in the County of Leicestershire to be my Executors to this my Will………………………………………………..
I DIRECT that all my just debts funeral and testamentors expenses shall be paid as soon as conveniently may be after my decease……………………………………………………………
I GIVE AND BEQUEATH to my Son TOM ALLEN BLACKWELL of Diseworth in the County of Leicestershire. All my household goods chattels and effects.
All live and dead Stock on the Farm and Land occupied by me. …………………………..
All ready Money Insurance money and trade utensils…………………………………………………
WITNESS my hand this Seventh day of July 1909..
………………………………………..ELIZA BLACKWELL Her Mark. X ……………………………………………
Signed Published and declared by the said Testatrix as and for her last Will and Testament in the presence of us who request in her presence and in the presence of each other have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses
SAMUEL TAYLOR Schoolmaster of Diseworth. ……………………………………………………………
FANNY MORGAN. Laundress of Diseworth. ……………………………………………………………..
Affidavit of due Executors filed on this last day of January. 1925……………………
PROBATE of this will was granted at Leicester……………………………………………………………..
MIKE........
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Good morning & thanks, Mike.
Didn't even get the dead stock!! Seriously, is that a standard clause in old wills as I don't know of any farm, unless it was attached to the pub, or she moved & gave up the Plough. (I have written over 600 wills, but have not come across this phrase as standard in modern wills). The reason I think it might be a stock (pardon the pun!) phrase, is the address of the farm is not mentioned.
Also interesting that she ran a pub on her own, but was illiterate. Bet the account books were confusing (if they had any)!
Looks like Charlie boy was a man of property, will have to find an old map to find Charley Way in Shepshed. Have heard of Charley village, not far from Shepshed, but only a couple of houses there. What is the equivalent to £62 (in 1887) now?
John
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evening all!! good to see i DID find the right family on the census ;D
no Charley way marked on the modern A-Z Leics but Charley Road leads south out of Shepshed and crosses the A512 Ashby Road.
Diddy
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OK Diddy. We've given you the benefit of the doubt!!! lol
Did check ages on census (whilst in library) to see if could have been transcribed incorrectly, but was clearly a 2 not a 7. Then looking at age on death, this tallied with earlier censuses and was in Diseworth, so must either have been them or a strange coincidence.
Know Charley Road - it's where the windmill is, but can't see that there would have been a shop (mentioned in Charles's will) down there. Will have to try & find old maps, to see if there was a Charley Way.
Any suggestions where to view/find maps from around the time the will was written?
Have realised, after spending 2 hours searching on Thursday, that I need to write down what I am going to research. Otherwise I am chasing my tail!
John
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Mike - as well as previous questions on #76, need to clarify Eliza's date of death as you say 3rd Qtr 1925 but Joan from Lobro library says her CD for Leicestershire burials states 3rd Qtr 1924.
Need to clarify before I look up Parish records.
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Greeting’s again……… John.
Amended year date on my post now to read 1924……Apologies.
Re :~ What is the equivalent to £62 (in 1887) now?
May I refer the right Honorable Gentleman………
to my answer I gave on post No’ 73.
MIKE………
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Greeting’s again……… John.
Re:~ " Charley Way " .....
Having looked on a 1887 Map of Shepshed
The closest I could find is the following :~
At the junction of Charnwood Road / Sullington Road
Close to The Victoria Public House.
There is an area named ......“ Charley Gap “
Also Re your Shop doubts ? .....
In those days people would convert their front room into a shop so from the outside it would still look like a normal house
MIKE………
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John, Loughborough library -upstairs in the archive room - has an excellent collection of local maps in the drawers to left as you go in.
Diddy
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;D.....Nice one Diddymiller ...Online Guide ..... ;D
Greeting’s Again. …John…..
Early Trade Directories. ...... Diseworth :~
1875.
Frederick Pountian…….Victualer…… Old Plough.
1887~88.
Mrs Eliza Blackwell. Cottager & Cow keeper. Victualer Old Plough.
Wm Johnson Mills & Maria Louisa Mills. .... School Master & Mistress National School.
Giles Morgan……Farmer.
1899.
Mrs Eliza Blackwell. Cottager & Cow keeper. Victualer Old Plough.
John Blackwell Coal Merchant.
Rebecca Blackwell….Dressmaker.
John Mills…..Shop keeper. Charnwood Road.
Samuel H.Taylor. School Master & St: Michaels Parish Church Organist.
1916.
Mrs Eliza Blackwell. Victualer. Plough Public House.
John Blackwell. Grazer.
Samuel Henry Taylor. Parish Clark.
Cottagers.:~ = Small Holders
MIKE……….
Having re read the Will of Charles again I just wonder if the Shop
related to a Shop attached to the Small holdings on Charley way
to sell the produce off the land.
Also the wording of Cottages
Again related to the plots of land on which the small holdings stood on ?
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So much information! I will have to study & digest. But as I am apparently a 'grazer'..........................!!
Mike, I did see your calcs re value, but after I had done post and didn't realise how many earlier ones were on there!
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;D...So..... Diddy & myself can now send in our bill then ? ..... ;D
MIKE. ........
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Well, you can send it..................................................! I didn't say I'd finished - just need reflection time.
Seriously, whenever the two of you are free, I'll treat you to a meal. Well at least, a drink & a packet of crisps!
Is the library licensed?!!
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the 'Coffee Pot' up the road ,opposite the carpark does a fantastic BLT baguette........
Diddy (drooling already!) ;D
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Daughter used to work there on Saturdays, whilst still at school.
It is a lovely cafe - and it's licensed! (Well, have to keep up the family victualer tradition!)
Let me know when you're in next & we'll arrange something for lunch/brunch.
What about Mikey though?
John
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tied up with mother in law this week til thursday pm maybe friday??
Diddy
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if Mike can't come perhaps we will have to eat his too.......
Diddy :-*
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How long have you been tied up for? Must be painful!!
Sorry, Friday not good day for me (Gym in morning, snooker in afternoon, then meet daughter)- ideally, has to be Monday to Thursday lunchtime, of which, all are fairly OK so far next week.
Not heard from Mike, perhaps he only comes out at night! (Judging by his posting times!) Sorry Mike.
Let me know, no rush.
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will have to let you know John. i work supply and don't yet know about next week.
actually had nice time today - out with both mums!!
Diddy
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Also, if anyone is trying to trace the Barker family of Leicestershire, have records back to late 1600's.
Some years after this post I'm afraid, but I wonder if you can help. A Daniel Barker and his wife Hannah were my 4xG.Grandparents. Their daughter Hannah Smith Barker (my 3xG.Grandmother) was christened in Burrough on the Hill in 1798, but I've reached the conclusion that there was more than one Daniel Barker married to a Hannah in the Melton area. Do you have any info that might get me any further with identifying 'my' Daniel and Hannah, please? I am in contact with the descendant of another Daniel and Hannah, but their couple seem to have been in Holwell, whereas mine seem to be largely assosciated with Burrough and the Goadby Marwood area.
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Greeting’s & welcome to the Leicestershire Boards………..
Barker Events which might help you.:~
St: Mary the Virgin Parish Church.
Borough – on – the – Hill. :~
1786.
Charles. Son of Daniel & Hannah Barker. ..Bapt May 1786.
St: Deny’s Parish Church.
Goadby Marwood. :~
1803.
Ann. Daughter of Daniel & Hannah Barker. …Bapt. 5th. August.
1805.
Lydia. Daughter of Daniel & Hannah Barker. Bapt. 12th. December.
Buried…….4th. September 1807. an Infant.
BURIAL :~
1810.
Hannah Barker
19TH February.
No age given. ……Sorry.
Although I did not see any ref to your Hannah Smith Barker c 1798.
Perhaps you know of any siblings for Hannah….
So as to match Hannah up to any of the above details ?
Sorry I can not help further…….
Other than the above details via the recourses I have to hand.
MIKE. …..
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I had some but not all of that, so I may be able to get a bit further now. Many thanks for the swift reply.