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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: fishergate on Wednesday 27 January 10 20:04 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for the parents of John Newill born c. 1771 'out of the county' in the 1841 census.
In his Marriage Bond to Elizabeth Hekin (Ekin) 1798 he is described as a tailor and married at Guilsfield. He does not appear on the Shropshire records. Were there any boundary changes which could place him in Radnorshire or elsewhere ?
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I am searching for the parents of John Newill born c. 1771 'out of the county' in the 1841 census.
In his Marriage Bond to Elizabeth Hekin (Ekin) 1798 he is described as a tailor and married at Guilsfield. He does not appear on the Shropshire records. Were there any boundary changes which could place him in Radnorshire or elsewhere ?
Hello , There appears to be a Guilsfield here, which may bare some relevence
http://www.guilsfield.net/index.html
Unless there are more than one, read the post and see what you think....no doubt after I have posted this others will come up with suggestion...they usually do LOL The two main towns near this one are in the post may be of interest
Regards
Raphael
UK & Germany
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Thank you for your reply, Raphael. I was wondering whether John Newill was born around Presteigne and whether it was in Radnorshire in the 1770's. He moved to Welshpool at some point and married in Guilsfield.
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I'm no expert, but I'd say Guildfield has always been in Montgomeryshire.
If you've not got his death cert. It appears he died in 1846:
http://www.ukbmdsearch.org.uk/certapp.php?type=deaths&data=NEWILL|John|Welshpool|Powys%20-%20Llandrindod%20Wells|1846|1846||DA%3aPOOL%2f04%2f30|N|407|northwales|DD|-&lang=
That should at least give you a better DOB rage; as you may know the 1841 census rounded ages to the nearest 5 for those over the age of 15 years.
John's Will is also online here:
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2010012614312522034&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&function=EXTERNAL_CONTENT&externalurltype=856u&externalurl=http%3a%2f%2fdams.llgc.org.uk%2fintegration%2fbehaviour%2fllgc-id%3a261458%2ffedora-bdef%3azoom%2fllgc-id%3a261457%2f81.155.75.88%2fen
It mentions him as a "gentleman" and one of his sons are in Salop. Also mentions your Beatties.
If he is a gent. he may be listed in some landed gentry or commoners pedigree publication or on some scraps at Mont. Archives or in some sort of manorial records. Again finding the headstone, if there is one, would be a good idea. Is possible it could say where he came from. The Mont. Gen. Soc. should be able to help with that for a fee if you aren't local.
This might have something in:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6jMwAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false
This guy might be worth looking at:
http://www.thepeerage.com/p33692.htm#i336913
Lived in Shrops. too and Newill is a northen name. There are some Newills in the graveyard at Wellington. I'd look at the PRs for Wellington. Also:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B8366
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/results.aspx?tab=2&Page=1&ContainAllWords=Newill&Places=Shropshire
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I106657&tree=Nixon
Historic Spots. No. 1. Bwlch-y-Pawl. By THOMAS NEWILL.
Miscellanea Histories, or Public Officers of Montgomeryshire. By the Eev.
http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=1&coll_id=78052&expand=
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Thomas Newill of the White House, Berriew, eldest son of Thomas Newell, Esq. of Spring Bank, Welshpool to Miss Brumwell of Sutton, Mont.
- North Wales Chronicle (Bangor, Wales), Friday, February 11, 1853
Newill at Welshpool Illuminati lodge No. 998
There is an obit. for Thomas Newell in the North Wales Chronicle (Bangor, Wales), Saturday, May 23, 1891
says he was an agent for Powis Castle for 50 yeras - The Herbert Family, of Clive of India. So maybe some records there. He was born c. 1805.
If this is your family there should be some records somewhere. Serrious digging will be required though.
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Thank you David,
You have given me a lot of links to pursue. Thomas Newill 1805 was a son of John Newill and Elizabeth Ikin. John Newill was a tailor and I am also searching for apprenticeship records as he probably travelled away from his home county as a journeyman. There is a John Newill born in Liverpool in 1771 to a Samuel Newill but I'm not sure as the family names do not fit
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John & Elizabeth Newill were my gt x4 grandparents. I have an enormous amount of info on the family & would be happy to share off line. How are you related to them? Amberly
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I too have a lot of info on the Newels, whose name became Newill (and it's correct about Shropshire). John was born in 1770 in Llanwnog to Richard Newel and Catherine Howel(l). I had been looking for about 5 years for his brother, my 3rd g-grandfather, and have opened up a whole branch of the family tree.
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I was interested in your information on John Newill being born to Richard and Catherine Howell.
I had been looking at a John Newill born 1771 in Warwickshire but I would be interested to follow your lead.
Regards
Fishergate
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http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/search/?q=John+Newill+Welshpool&cb_submit=Search
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In the 1840 Census, he, Elizabeth, two of their daughters, Sarah and Martha, and John Beattie are living with them in Severn St., Pool (Welshpool). John says he's a retired overseer.
Actually, this is a bit complicated, because I've only discovered this in the last couple of weeks - if you give me your email address, I can email-invite you to my Ancestry website, which is free as a guest.
Best regards Melissa (formerly Newell Bailey)
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Is it possible to read the data they have online? I can't seem to find out how to do so!
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During 1727-Bapt, 47; Sepult., 63; Nupt., 2. Evidently the town [Welshpool] was visited by an epidemic. The insanitary state of the town and the ignorance of the very rudiments of sanitation accounts for the large death rate, and the infant mortality is appalling; in those days it was a case of the survival of the fittest. Sara Newel, Vidua, de Pola, Sepult. 111110 May, 1728. Widow of William Newell, Sen., of Welshpool, tobacconist and malster, who died in 1726, and mother of William, Joseph, Thomas, Edward and Robert Newell or Newill, of Welshpool, Shrewsbury and Dolgelley. They were hereditary burgesses of Shrewsbury, and descended from Richard Newell of Worthen, time of Henry VIII. Mrs. Sarah Newell, in her Will, dated May 7th, 1728 (the day previous to her death), bequeaths various houses in Welshpool to her sons, the Pack Horse and houses in Mount Street being included. This Will is now in the possession of the Rev. J. Gilbertson- Pritchard of Morben and Lytham, who is also a descendant, through his great grandmother, Sarah Newell (who married David Pritchard in 1793), of William and Sarah Newell of Welshpool. There is a large stone over No. 4, Broad Street, inscribed- N. W. S. i.e., W. and S. Newell, 1721.
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Thank you for your replies. John Newill was a tailor on his marriage bond in the Welsh Library and later overseer for the poor who would also supervise settlement of newcomers into the Parish. He is my gt gt gt grandfather through William Beattie and Elizabeth Newill. We are interested in tracing John Newill back as he says he wasn't born in the County in 1841; There is a similar blockage with William Beattie who was born in Dumfries (shire)1796/7 and was a travelling teadealer, who seems to have 'linked up' with Elizabeth Newill on his travels and was married hurriedly by licence at Meols Brace in 1824. He later farmed at Red Bank and had the vote in 1860.We have traced back Elizabeth Hekin John's wife but her mother Jane Owen's roots are difficult to trace. We have a good tree for the Hekin;ekin .Eakin, Ikin Family in Shropshire.
Regards
Fishergate
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Link for the post above.
http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/viewpage/llgc-id:1238716/llgc-id:1240100/llgc-id:1240196/getText
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Sorry, should have said, Elizabeth Newell Beattie's birth record:
Name: Elizabeth John
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 30 May 1798
Baptism Date: 30 May 1798
Baptism Place: Welshpool,Montgomery,Wales
Father: John Newell
Mother: Elizabeth Hekin
FHL Film Number: 104826
Was she really baptized Elizabeth John? Note that John's surname is spelt Newell - I'm sure you've seen Newall and Nule too.
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I think this is the most likely Jane Owen, as Westbury is about 3 miles from Worthen:
Text: 11 Jun 1753 Jane, d. of Jane Owen.
Book: Baptisms. (Baptism)
Collection: Shropshire: Westbury - Parish Registers, Hereford Diocese
Having said that, a Jane Heykin died in Welshpool in 1836, born in 1748, and there are a few Jane Owens born in Montgomeryshire in or near that year. She may be one of those, as Worthen is only about 5 miles from Welshpool - I'll try Banns.
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Thank you. The difficulty with Jane Owen is proving it's the correct baptism. The record does not say illegitimate so maybe her mother was a widow. We have tried looking for links with Owens further forward. In fact John and Elizabeth Newill are buried in a vaulted tomb which includes a top stone naming a Thomas Owen. ... but the M I compilers questioned whether this stone belonged to the Newill tomb.
Thank you for all your searches. We have searched through some of the Volumes in the library collected by Mary Newill OWEN ( I have a letter written by her to my grandmother) But she doesn't seem to trace the ancestry further back than John Newill 1771.
Fishergate
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Thank you for your reply, Raphael. I was wondering whether John Newill was born around Presteigne and whether it was in Radnorshire in the 1770's. He moved to Welshpool at some point and married in Guilsfield.
John's twin brother - assuming that's correct - Hugh Newell, moved to Presteigne, where he founded an ironmongers which continued til the 1970s, when his descendant died. Hugh died 6 months after John. He is reputed to have married an Elizabeth Owen.
Hugh and John's father, Richard, rented a lot of land and buildings in and around Welshpool, and seems wealthy.
I can't access the Welsh Library, as I live in Kent, but have seen on a Shropshire history website that Joseph Heykin left everything in his will to his sons-in-law. I think the Mary Heakin born to him in Worthen is by his second wife, Anne. Mary married John Jones of Shropshire, so that would tie in as Joseph's son-in-law.
Although John says born out of County, that could be an error, as I've come across dozens perpetrated either by my forebear themselves, the enumerator at the time, or subsequently by bodies like modern Councils' translations - Warwickshire is appalling.
If only they had lived longer, records were more specific, or the Census had begun earlier, it would be so much easier!
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Hello Fountaintower,
I'm interested in the parents you have for John Newill - Richard and Catherine. Were any of his children given these names?
Some time ago I veered towards John Newill baptised 12th March 1771 at St. Martin's Birmingham.
His parents were Joseph Newill and Anne (Green) who married at St. Michael's Coventry 3rd November 1755 and their children were George,Anne . Thomas, Elizabeth, John and Joseph.
I was interested in this family as the Newill's and Beatties have very strong links with Birmingham and I was hoping to find an apprenticeship record for John Newill as a tailor.
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Hello Fountaintower,
I'm interested in the parents you have for John Newill - Richard and Catherine. Were any of his children given these names?
Some time ago I veered towards John Newill baptised 12th March 1771 at St. Martin's Birmingham.
His parents were Joseph Newill and Anne (Green) who married at St. Michael's Coventry 3rd November 1755 and their children were George,Anne . Thomas, Elizabeth, John and Joseph.
I was interested in this family as the Newill's and Beatties have very strong links with Birmingham and I was hoping to find an apprenticeship record for John Newill as a tailor.
Hi,
One son, Richard, was born in 1771, but died soon after. None of the girls was named Catherine.
I seem to have literally just found confirmation that my Hugh was indeed the one born in Llanwnog, as he was apprenticed there as a tanner, which was his living for many years. He also had an apprentice tawser (dresser of leather), Richard Newell, who would have been born c 1792. A Richard Newell is then a tanner in High Street, Welshpool, but I need to do a lot more work on this.
I had seen Mary Newill Owen's publication, and have just discovered today that she was Thomas Newill's granddaughter.
I was in touch with a lady some time ago who has masses of info on the Heakin/Hekin connection, of which I was unaware at the time.
Remember, you're very welcome to be my visitor to Ancestry UK - they never charge visitors, and it may help your searches - just email me: melissf@outlook.com.
I've emailed to someone called meilocki today who seems to have a lot of Newill/Newell info.
I'm sure you know that there were Newells in Shropshire, but I've pretty much discounted them.
Hugh and his family are very frustrating, because they were Primitive Methodists, and BDM records are not good.
Best regards,
Melissa
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Thank you for your replies. John Newill was a tailor on his marriage bond in the Welsh Library and later overseer for the poor who would also supervise settlement of newcomers into the Parish. He is my gt gt gt grandfather through William Beattie and Elizabeth Newill. We are interested in tracing John Newill back as he says he wasn't born in the County in 1841; There is a similar blockage with William Beattie who was born in Dumfries (shire)1796/7 and was a travelling teadealer, who seems to have 'linked up' with Elizabeth Newill on his travels and was married hurriedly by licence at Meols Brace in 1824. He later farmed at Red Bank and had the vote in 1860.We have traced back Elizabeth Hekin John's wife but her mother Jane Owen's roots are difficult to trace. We have a good tree for the Hekin;ekin .Eakin, Ikin Family in Shropshire.
Regards
Fishergate
Hi, I've just found that John NewEll, 'taylor' of Pool, was master to an apprentice, Isaac Jones, in 1806, which at least shows that the name was spelt differently depending on the person who recorded it - I've found Nules, Nowells, Nuwales etc.!
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I am searching for the parents of John Newill born c. 1771 'out of the county' in the 1841 census.
In his Marriage Bond to Elizabeth Hekin (Ekin) 1798 he is described as a tailor and married at Guilsfield. He does not appear on the Shropshire records. Were there any boundary changes which could place him in Radnorshire or elsewhere ?
I forgot to say that entries on the Census can be incorrectly trascribed, or the people themselves give differing information - he may have thought 'town' rather than county if he was born in Llanwnog, as I'm beginning to believe. Just a thought!
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I am searching for the parents of John Newill born c. 1771 'out of the county' in the 1841 census.
In his Marriage Bond to Elizabeth Hekin (Ekin) 1798 he is described as a tailor and married at Guilsfield. He does not appear on the Shropshire records. Were there any boundary changes which could place him in Radnorshire or elsewhere ?
Hi, the only John (all spellings, inc. Nule) I've found who was apprenticed as a tailor was John Newell in Poulton, Lancashire, in 1783, to John Lawton, which would be a bit young, possibly, according to the dob of 1771 that he gives.
On looking at the 1841 Census again, though, I notice there's a mark beside where he says 'no' to born in County, which the ennumerator sometimes put to indicate an incorrect answer.