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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: anniebelle on Tuesday 26 January 10 02:58 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find more Irish historylon my ancestor John McDowell and his parents Samuel and Mary McDowell. Given the early years and the small amount of information I have concerning their Irish history it may not be possible to find out anything. The facts I have are:
John McDowell with his wife Mary (nee Davidson) who married on 9 Feb 1853 in Alfred St Presby Church, Shankill, Belfast (Note this info generously provided by kingskerswell on RC, thank you) departed Ireland as Assist immigrants to Aust in late 1854.
The information on John McDowell is that he was 24 yrs (born c1830) and his native place was Tednavnet, Monaghan. His parents were Samuel and Mary living at Coothill?, Monaghan in 1854. His religion was Church of Scotland. His calling was Groom. This from the immigration record.
His death record adds that his place of birth was Glass Lough Co Monaghan and that his mother was Mary McColl.
I have followed the previous threads on RC re Mary Anne Davidson, native of Gilford, Co Down and the postings re her parents John Davidson and Elizabeth Mary Warburton.
I am interested in any suggestions regarding John McDowell and his parents Samuel & Mary.
With thanks,
Anniebelle
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Not impossible by any means! I recently did Samuel Grey/McDowell research for someone and indeed your McDowells were from Cootehill, which in fact is just over the county border into Co Cavan.
I did note by error (too many Samuels!) that on 9th Oct 1826 Samuel McDowell, Cootehill, Co.Cavan, Married Mary McCall, Derrynagan witnesses were William Bewley + John Bothwell at Tedavnet Church.
While he may have been Church of Scotland, very often their records were kept by C of England (now C of I) as they were the official record keepers. Tedavnet records are fairly handy to get but you won't get much further back in time than this with church records.
Hope this helps in your research.
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Thank you for your response. Do you have any suggestion as to why John and Mary Ann would have married in Belfast in 1853? Mary Ann's family seem to have originated from Co Down and Belfast which seems a good distance from Tydavnet in those days. I have noticed in my research that there are a lot of McDowells in Down and Antrim. Is Glaslough part of the parish of Tydavnet? Could John's parents have moved to Monaghan to work for families in that area? It seems strange to me that a native of Monaghan would marry in Belfast in 1853?
Anniebelle
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Many people from Monaghan moved to Belfast, often for work. There could be many reasons from extended family, end of leases, work, college education so circumstances are individual!
Glaslough is only a few mile from Tedavnet.
My g/aunt worked in Dungannon and cycled home every w/end to Monaghan. People moved around more than is thought!
Cootehill in Cavan is also a reasonable distance from Glaslough, so they moved around a bit. Samuel could have been a coachman or a drover and so would have travelled to other estates, people on different estates knew each other and even football matches were arranged between different estates by the workers, these often met up at market days too.
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Yes - Samuel McDowell of Cootehill, Co. Cavan married Mary McCall of Dernagun at Tydavnet Parish Church on 9th Oct 1826 - the witnesses were William Bewley & John Bothwell. One child - Sarah was baptised at the same Church on 22ndJuly1827.
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More data re Samuel McDowell & Mary McCall is shown against the townland of Coolkill East. The children baptised at another Church are John, (1829), William (1833), Susanna (1835), & Samuel (1838). It seems that the birth of John at Glaslough is incorrect.
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Firstly, thank you very much to both of you for your responses. The information re Glaslough is from John's death certificate, the informant an Aussie born son. So likely to be wrong. The information of where Samuel and Mary were living in 1854 is handwritten- - the ship's immigration record. I have had another look at it and I think Coolkill is what is actually written. These look to be definitely my ancestors as John and Mary Ann named children Susanna and Samuel.
A few questions - if you don't mind:
Where is Coolkill East townland?
What is the name of and location of the Church that the children were baptised at?
Where is the Tydavnet Parish Church?
What would people be likely to be doing at Coolkill East in the 1830s?
I understand the earliest Parish records for Tydavnet are 1822, is this so? Does this mean no further information can be found on this family prior to this date?
Do parish records provide any more information then already provided?
With thanks,
Anniebelle.
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Just a further clarification.
I noticed that there is a slight difference in the marriage record of Samuel and Mary mentioned in 2 of the replies.
Mary McCall of Dernagun
Mary McCall of Derrynagan
Are these the same location?
Thanks again, Anniebelle
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According to the Church Records (difficult to read sometimes) the townland is Dernagun but I feel that it should be Derrynagad which is in Tydavet Parish. I advised you of Dernagun which is what is listed in the Records - frequently spelling errors occurred by the person who actually recorded the event. All the Church Records are on CD & there are obviously relatives etc living at Coolkill East. If you really want to trace your Ancestors the Church Records are probably the most reliable & you will find my e-mail address at all of the other Ancestry websites - Ancestry.com, Genealogy.com, Rootsweb.com etc. All these Records are copied from Original Church Record books made available to me by the Churches concerned who wish to make links to ex-attendees of their Churches, many in decline now. Attached is a photo of Tydavnet Parish Church
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The paper and ink used those days plus the handwriting often lead to records being hard to read, often blotches occur etc...Some are works of art!
Whether he was born in Glaslough is impossible to say but the birth is recorded at the church they attended. Just like today if you take someone living in Fremantle on way to Perth Hospital and they get as far as Cottesloe when the baby is born, does that mean he is from Cottesloe?
Yours may have gone to a friend's house etc... As for what he worked at, there were many trades, smithy, gardener, farmer, carpenter, cooper. etc
As for marrying in Co Down, that would normally ( even today) be the case. They marry in girl's church! It is possible to get further back in time by research but this can get very expensive and in many cases unfruitful and a waste of money. You are now in 3 places Cootehill in Cavan, Tedavnet/Tydavnet in Monaghan and Co Down.
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Anniebelle,
I to am descended from John McDowell and Mary Ann Davison via Ellen Ameila McDowell. Are you still after Mary Ann's death detail?
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Stuart,
I have since found Mary Ann McDowell (nee Davidson)'s date of death and have a transcription of her death certificate. She died 13 Jan, 1916 at Merrylands Rd, Granville, NSW. Other details on the death certificate are: age 88 years; born Guildford, Ireland; 60 years in NSW; Father: Unknown first name Davidon of unknown occupation; Mother: Bessie Warburton; married Belfast, Ireland to John McD; Children at death: Eleanor 61, Mary 59, Samuel 57, Susannah 51, John 50 and Louis 48 living; 1 male & 2 females dead; Informant: Robert McKenzie Meldrum, son-in-law, Victoria Ave, Chatswood; Died of strangulated hernia, cardiac failure; BUried 14 Jan, 1916 at Methodist Cemetery Rookwood by rites of Methodist Church.
Her death Notice in the SMH Fri, 14 Jan, 1916 which can be seen on the Trove website.
Thank you for replying to my post.
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Stuart,
I am a descendant of John and Mary Ann McDowell's son Samuel McD
Annie
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I believe that your McDowell's are in the same line as mine.
In a book touching on the Kane Estates in Co.Monaghan, I read about the large McDowell family that went down from Aughnacloy Tyrone and Rented lands in on these Monaghan Estates, to start up wood and corn mills. One David McDowell was a land agent that collected rents from the tenants-Mostly the MacKenna's of whom previously owned the lands as an ancestral agreement from the Earls of the provinces. David McDowell paid his owner Mr Kane, a Banker in Belfast a set rent regardless of the number of tenants.
His brothers in the 17-1800's were Wildridge, John-around Ballybay, Thomas and his son David '
I am missing some from the top of my head but I can get the names and dates for you.
This McDowell adventure started back in Aughnacloy when two devout presbyterian brothers named William and Robert Urey came into Merchandising in Augher and Aughnacloy Co. Tyrone.
Patrick McDowell married the daughter of Robert Urey and they were all very wealthy. They had about 13 children, most of them boys. The Urey' name was spelt Wry at that time and place.
see peterbees.tribalpages.com
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http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/photos/tombstones/monaghan-stonebridge/target5.html
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Thank you for your responses. In your McDowell research have you found any connection to my Samuel and Mary McDowell (nee McCall) who were married in the Tydavnet Parish and later lived at Coolkill East? Other McDowell names I have come across connected to Coolkill East(apart from the children of Samuel and Mary) are:
John Johnston and Susanna McDowell
Nicholas McDowell and Sarah Martin
These couples were having their children baptised in the 1820s and 1830s, about the same time as my Samuel and Mary which would suggest that they are possibly siblings of Samuel. Susanna is likely since Samuel and Mary named one of their children Susanna.
Unfortunately I have no details of the names of Samuel or Mary's parents so have no way of being able to make the linkages.
Annie
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Monaghan borders Co. Cavan and I have some McDowell's there. I do know of one Susanna McDowell whom worked as a servant and relation to the Trelford's in or near Co. Cavan.
I was hoping that you mentioned Cootehill as there were many McDowell's there.
I will investigate further into the McDowell's near Tedavent Monaghan. John McDowell had about 60 acres of land at Ballybay andRev. Martin McDowell was the Minister at Crieve near by.
The biggest problem I have is that My McDowell naming pattern changed when my McDowell's left the Presbyterian Church or the Church of Ireland and this caused a split from the family.
The post before yours shows a Urey family connection which has to be looked at too.
best regards, Peter
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Some of the McDowell's that went down to Co. Monaghan from Tyrone were listed in the Drummully Cemeteries
McDowell David Glaslough Church of Ireland County Monaghan
McDool Daniel Drumully Old Graveyard County Monaghan
McDool John Drumully Old Graveyard County Monaghan
McDool Patrick Drumully Old Graveyard County Monaghan
McDool Patrick Drumully Old Graveyard County Monaghan
McDool Patrick Drumully Old Graveyard County Monaghan
McDowell John Glaslough Church of Ireland County Monaghan
McDowell John Glaslough Church of Ireland County Monaghan
McDowell Rosana Glaslough Church of Ireland County Monaghan
McDowell Samuel Monaghan Church of Ireland County Monaghan--Peter