RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: Superhoop on Saturday 23 January 10 16:22 GMT (UK)
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I have hit a big brick wall and am stuck! I am hoping someone can help me.
My Grandmother was born in Sumatra: Joyce Alberta Catherine Lunberg 6th February 1910. I know her mother was Nora Elaine Lunberg (nee O'Keefe) and she was born 25th May 1886 in the Apothecary's Quarter of the Criminal Prison Penang Straits Settlement. Nora's mother was Charlotte Sophia Alberta Westwood and her Father was Samuel Arthur O'Keeffe (Occupation listed as Apothecary). I cannot locate DOBs for Charlotte or Samuel and cannot find Nora's Spouse? Are there any online searchable databases for Penang?
My Grandmother came to the UK on the P&O Steam Company Ship Corfu. This sailed from Hong Kong to Tilbury Dock London and my Nan joined at Penang. She had my Father Kenneth Michael Quinlan (Died Cheltenham 1972) my Uncle Robert Quinlan (never met him) and my Great Gran Nora(never met her) who are all part of the passenger list. My Grandfather, surname Quinlan left my Nan after they married in India. I had photos of this with a date but a family member took them and I never saw them again :-[ Basically Mr Quinlan deserted my Nan and he returned to the UK and married again. I had never met my Grandfather as my Nan refused to speak about it. I have contacted my Grandfather's son and we have met but the knowledge of the previous marriage and subsequent family did cause them distress so we never met again - very sad for me :(
I didn't put Mr Quinlan's full name to prevent further problems with my unknown family.
I wanted to trace Charlotte and Samuel and hoped to find a marriage for Nora but I've hit a dead end. My Nan died in 1999 and she remained tight lipped until the few days before she died. She then mentioned a Gerald O'Keeffe and a Claude O'Keeffe who still apparently lived in Penang. I have just started to trace them again, I know I let the trail go cold but some of the distressed family members are no longer with us.
I'm sorry to start my first input with such a mess but it is starting to get me quite stressed so I would appreciate any form of advice.
Thanks in advance for any small crumb of comfort
Superhoop
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Hi Superhoop,
I'll add this link from the chatroom here too:
for general genealogical information and some links for "foreign" research I usually recommend the wiki.FamilySearch project
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Main_Page
in particular, the Malysia page page:
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Malaysia
Not a lot on it at the moment, but check it regularly, as it's very much an on-going project, so it's still growing.
Another possibility is the Asia page on Cyndislist:
http://www.cyndislist.com/asia.htm
(search for sumatra)
Good luck
Bob
p.s. You can find out more about the wiki.FamilySearch project here:
Topic: New resource from Familysearch: research in other countries
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259450.0.html
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This site has some information on the family:
http://www.derozario.com.au/gen9128.htm
You can search Singaporean newspapers here:
http://newspapers.nl.sg/
If you search for just "Nora Elaine" I believe it brings up her marriage in 1909, to Mr George Robert Lunberg. She is listed as the eldest daughter of Dr Samuel Arthur O'Keeffe.
There's also one in 1934 which mentions Dr. S. A. O'Keeffe as being ill and at his daughter's house (Mrs. J. Gawthorne) in Penang.
(a 1904 entry mentions the engagement of J. Gawthorne to Miss Gwen O'Keeffe, second daughter of Dr O'Keeffe).
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This site has some information on the family:
http://www.derozario.com.au/gen9128.htm
You can search Singaporean newspapers here:
http://newspapers.nl.sg/
If you search for just "Nora Elaine" I believe it brings up her marriage in 1909, to Mr George Robert Lunberg. She is listed as the eldest daughter of Dr Samuel Arthur O'Keeffe.
There's also one in 1934 which mentions Dr. S. A. O'Keeffe as being ill and at his daughter's house (Mrs. J. Gawthorne) in Penang.
(a 1904 entry mentions the engagement of J. Gawthorne to Miss Gwen O'Keeffe, second daughter of Dr O'Keeffe).
Hi jorose
I simply cannot express how grateful I am - this is starting to fill the void that has been with me for many years. It is very hard to not know who your family were beyond just one grandparent and it's made worse when they lived abroad.
How did you manage to find this so quickly, it's amazing, I am so happy :) ...thank you again!
Dave aka Superhoop
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I used to live in Singapore for a couple of years; but the trick in a lot of these things is just knowing where all the websites are!
As about George Robert it only says he was assistant at "Hessa Estate, Tanjong Balei, Asaban, Sumatra", you might look him up by the place he worked in.
Also there are some records in WWII in the newspaper of a G.H.A. Lunberg who is described as a Netherlander, although resident in Penang for more than 18 years and born in Sumatra.
I think this is the brother of Joyce; in 1942 there is a marriage for Lieut. George Henry Arthur Lunberg, R.N.R., who is listed as the son of Mrs N. E. Lunberg and of the late Mr G. R. Lunberg of Asaban, Sumatra. He sadly appears to have died soon afterwards:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2499104
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I used to live in Singapore for a couple of years; but the trick in a lot of these things is just knowing where all the websites are!
As about George Robert it only says he was assistant at "Hessa Estate, Tanjong Balei, Asaban, Sumatra", you might look him up by the place he worked in.
Also there are some records in WWII in the newspaper of a G.H.A. Lunberg who is described as a Netherlander, although resident in Penang for more than 18 years and born in Sumatra.
I think this is the brother of Joyce; in 1942 there is a marriage for Lieut. George Henry Arthur Lunberg, R.N.R., who is listed as the son of Mrs N. E. Lunberg and of the late Mr G. R. Lunberg of Asaban, Sumatra. He sadly appears to have died soon afterwards:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2499104
This is stunning! My Nan always talked of Uncle George, she says he was on a boat flying the flag of the Red Cross when it was sunk by the Japanese. I had his Naval License but it is with a family member and cannot be found at the moment. I was hoping to find an obituary for Dr Samuel O'Keeffe but have not had any luck yet. My Nan (Joyce) always talked of friends and family being taken from the area by the Japanese military and many supposedly died building the Death Railway to Burma. My Nan would not even have a Japanese product in the house - she was very bitter and could not forgive or forget!
Gwen is my Nan's Auntie although we always thought they were sisters, my Nan was 1 year older than Gwen. I know Gwen is living in the UK now and I think she is still alive. I would love to visit her but this is a sore subject with them all and I'm not sure what to do. I think J Gawthorne may have died or they separated. They were stoutly religious so separation/divorce is doubtful but not impossible. I have found a Gwen Gawthorne arriving in the UK ca. 1958 but she was alone and had no person of the same name accompanying her.
The DeRozario site has a Dennis O'Keeffe as the son of Dr Samuel O'Keeffe but I can find no record of him. My Nan always talked of Claude and there is a Cyrille Claude mentioned on this site - again I can find no records of him.
Nora (Gwen's sister) came to the UK in 1960 with my Nan, Father and Uncle. She died in 1963, the year of my birth. My father died in 1972 - we never had any contact with my Uncle although apparently he is still living close by. He has spent his life in and out of prison.
It has always been a mystery because my Nan carried an Asian appearance and spoke Malay dialects. We knew she was from Sumatra but the names O'Keeffe conjure Irish ancestors and Westwood seems very English. This is truly fascinating!
Where should I search for parents of Dr O'keeffe, death records for J Gawthorne etc.
Sorry, so many questions, so many memories coming back etc.
Thank you again, you have started to lift a cloud from my mind!
Dave
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When you look into the newspaper records for G.H.A. Lunberg he is first described as "Eurasian", him being a "Netherlander" is mentioned in a correction afterwards.
http://www.krancher.org/genealogy_main.html
http://www.igv.nl/index.html
- some information on these sites on Dutch-Indonesian families. The latter has Lunenburg and Lundberg mentioned.
www.familysearch.org lists Charlotte's baptism in India - it is possible both the O'Keeffe and the Westwood families had British army connections. If so they might appear on some records in England relating to military families although I can't see much at the moment.
In the newspaper there is a mention of a D. T. O'Keefe, Apothecary.
He might be the same as "David T. O'Keefe" who married "Jemima Martha Edwards" in 1854 in Madras ( http://search.fibis.org )
With the "Derozario" site listing Samuel with Edwards as a middle name, this seems like a possible hit for Samuel's parents.
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Hi
I managed to find some lists showing apothecaries in the Army based in India. I have found a James Westwood, a possible hit for Charlotte's Father. I'm new to this but there was another O'Keeffe listed as an Apothecary (I'm out of my office at the moment but I have his first name on my desk) so it would make some sense they would meet...not definite but a distinct possibility.
I also checked some of the Dutch/Indian sites and found what I think is George Robert's father. There is a listing of a wedding between Johannes Huigbret Lunberg and a Catherine Green (one of my Nan's middle names) so that looks promising. I have also found references to a birth of their two daughters but just dates and no child's name. I later found a marriage announcement for a Marie Lunberg so that is probably one of Johannes' daughters - the dates fit.
I found no reference of George Robert's birth but I have found an announcement in a Dutch paper that shows his untimely death. Someone who scanned the article has added February 1919 so that would fit.
I also found a Adolf Lunberg who was wanted by the Police in The Netherlands. He had committed some crime but I don't know what. He was never found; perhaps he also went to the Dutch East Indies? I am not sure of this but it is likely he was a relation because I have connected with people in the Netherlands and they say it was not a popular Dutch name at that time 1700-1800.
I also found a listing for Johan Lunberg and he was described as a merchant who travelled between the ports. This would fit nicely if this is the same Johannes (Johan) who appeared in the Dutch East Indies. The age range and dates seem to fit - I also have them on my desk.
Can anyone advise how I can trace Richard Francis Quinlan. He was born in 1919 in the Kilkenney area of Ireland, possibly Johnstown or the district main parish which I think is Urlingford. I have checked some Irish sites but there are no links at all. I started researching him about 15 years ago but it was a delicate subject because he remarried and it did upset some members of his new family. Can anyone suggest some decent research sites for Irish Ancestors. I tried Irish Origins but it wasn't great.
Thanks again
Superhoop
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Well this is a strange one!
I started to search for Lunberg in the newspaper and I found this little gem! (http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/Superhoops/tripleWedding.jpg)
It also shows Gwen O'Keeffe / J Gawthorne but I missed it first time around!
Does anyone know of a way to get hold of marriage/birth certificates etc from Penang?
Thanks
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In the newspaper there is a mention of a D. T. O'Keefe, Apothecary.
He might be the same as "David T. O'Keefe" who married "Jemima Martha Edwards" in 1854 in Madras ( http://search.fibis.org )
With the "Derozario" site listing Samuel with Edwards as a middle name, this seems like a possible hit for Samuel's parents.
I think there could have been a typo somewhere along the line. I stumped across a wedding announcement in the paper and it mentions a marriage of a Alfred Joseph O'Keeffe second son of the late surgeon Daniel T O'Keeffe to Priscilla Gawthorne second daughter of the late James Gawthorne. It says Daniel T O'Keeffe was a Captain in the Madras Fusiliers so this must be Samuel's father and it's his brother that is getting married. I wonder what the relationship is between this Gawthorne and the James Gawthorne that Samuel's daughter Gwen was later married to?
http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Article/straitstimes19061126.2.50.1.aspx
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Came across your quest for information. I'm currently researching the wife's family tree and appears you are related through Nora ,s husband. We can fill in some information. My wife family is from Penang, her father was Donald Campbell the son of J Campbell shown in the newspaper cutting-Johns wife was Catherine Lunberg. The Gawthorne,s were my wife's next door neighbours, the wifes name was Gwen and they had 2 daughters all of who had passed and 2 boys(not sure if the boys are still alive). We have also done some inquiry on the Lunberg side trying to trace Johannes H Lunberg in Samartra. Sounds like you may have more than me about Samartra. At this time a lot of information is written down and it would be easy communicating by email directly-Have only just joined Roots Chat to communicate with you. A few of the families you talk about still have family in Penang, a lot however moved to Australia and we know some are in Holland. We were speaking to one of the relations about Nora the other day-small world. Get in touch
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may have some information for you , my wife may be related through Johannes Huighbret Lunberg and Catherireen
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Hello,
I think that I can help you with this side of the family. I am the Great Grandson of Dr Samuel O'Keefe. My grandmother is Gwendoline O'Keeffe, the second daughter of Samuel and sister of Nora. They all lived in Penang. Claude O'Keeffe is the last of Samuel's children still alive. I have a photo of them all taken in Penang. How do we correspond with each other on the detail?
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Hi Footrot Flats,
You mention that the Gawthornes were your wife's next door neighbours in Penang. My grandmother, Gwen Gawthorne (nee O'Keeffe) was living at 23 Greenhall, then 247 Burmah Rd, then finally at 43 Cheeseman Rd. At which address was you wife living. My grandmother had two daughters - Elizabeth and Ruth and two sons, one of whom (Ralph) was my father. They are all now deceased. My Grandmother Gwen and my parents were living in Burmah Rd during the Japanese occupation. We knew Gerald Lunberg, son of Nora, also in Penang.
Came across your quest for information. I'm currently researching the wife's family tree and appears you are related through Nora ,s husband. We can fill in some information. My wife family is from Penang, her father was Donald Campbell the son of J Campbell shown in the newspaper cutting-Johns wife was Catherine Lunberg. The Gawthorne,s were my wife's next door neighbours, the wifes name was Gwen and they had 2 daughters all of who had passed and 2 boys(not sure if the boys are still alive). We have also done some inquiry on the Lunberg side trying to trace Johannes H Lunberg in Samartra. Sounds like you may have more than me about Samartra. At this time a lot of information is written down and it would be easy communicating by email directly-Have only just joined Roots Chat to communicate with you. A few of the families you talk about still have family in Penang, a lot however moved to Australia and we know some are in Holland. We were speaking to one of the relations about Nora the other day-small world. Get in touch
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Dear Superhoop,
I am new to this site so am not on top of operating the quotes and replies. My posting shown below is addressed to you. I am a Gawthorne, descended from Dr Samuel Arthur Edward O'Keeffe (Sam) and Charlotte Sophie Alberta Westwood (Sophie) through their daughter Gwendoline. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Hello,
I think that I can help you with this side of the family. I am the Great Grandson of Dr Samuel O'Keefe. My grandmother is Gwendoline O'Keeffe, the second daughter of Samuel and sister of Nora. They all lived in Penang. Claude O'Keeffe is the last of Samuel's children still alive. I have a photo of them all taken in Penang. How do we correspond with each other on the detail?
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Oh my goodness!
I stumbled across this message about three days ago and used some of the suggestions to research my family in Penang and Singapore. But now your family (yes - YOURS) has a link to mine...
My grand uncle Monty Chill was engaged to a Joy Lunberg in Penang - before he dropped dead from a heart attack only a month before their wedding! Is this the same family as the one whom you speak of in your email? If so, we might be able to help each other out with some things. I have only just managed to make a breakthrough with my family - who were Mason and Chill and Burke people, but I've also had word from someone else in recent days who knows about the family's history in India prior to Independence being granted.
It would be great to share info - I have a large family tree on Ancestry that you are welcome to look at for information that might help you.
Best wishes,
Jessie X
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Hi Jessie
Wow :o this is more than amazing! Only this morning I was sitting with someone talking about my Nan and I mentioned Monty and his sad demise. I then came home and found an e-mail saying you had replied.
My Nan was Joyce Lunberg (perhaps known as Joy to your family) and she was engaged to Monty. I have a photo of them together somewhere and would be more than happy to share it with you.
Where are you based?
Dave
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How amazing!
So she DID remarry - how happy to learn that. I hoped so - feel all emotional - I only found out about all this yesterday!
I'd love to have photos - sadly I have none of my family there apart from those of my great grandfather Captain Jack Mason, who was Monty's father's brother in law.
Gosh - what a tale! The power of the internet!
I'm in Kent - how about you?
X
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She did remarry but it was not a happy ending...a long story!
I am based in Gloucestershire.
Dave
PS I will dig out the photo for you. Please send me an e-mail via a Direct message
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The Newspaper
"Planters Mail" Malaya.
Is a very useful tool for the Colonian period, it was the expat jungle drums of the day, the National Library in Canberra, Australia have films, im not sure who else has them though.
Also, ...the " Singapore Straits Times"
These 2 papers helped / or sealed finally a long 70 year search for the burial place of my Grandmother,
Mary Helen Harris
Died in Europeon Hospital in Seremban in Aug 1931
She and my Grandfather Ernest Frederic Harris had been in Malaya and elswhere up there for many years from Australia when Mary died at a young age post surgery.
Thanks to the Planters Mail we found her obit with everything we needed, my Father and his brother were at school in Melbourne when she died and were never told of the "details" which seems incredible now, but in 1931 it seems that was the deal for kids.
She is buried in the Catholic section of the Seremban Cemetry but the grave is now not recognisable like many, and many were damaged n WW2, so we cant even fix the grave as they are just inable to be identified sadly.
Oh just saw your link to SST Superhoop.
I have searched almost every archive available for any record of her death, so did all the other family, no one ever found anything anywhere. Thats the only record we ever found.
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Hi Susiee,
I am not sure if you have searched the singapore papers archive, which has a wealth of information from papers in the area.
Your grandmother's death notice is here:
long link to //newspapers.nl.sq (http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Article.aspx?articleid=straitstimes19310819.2.94&sessionid=69385b5adce1418eb507a4e1d0c0bf58&keyword=harris&lang=en&search=advanced&fromdate=&todate=&articles=1&advertisements=1&illustrations=1&letters=1&obituaries=1&miscellaneous=1&newspaperTitles=&fuzzysearch=Off&ffromdate=19310101&ftodate=19311231&token=harris)
Regards.
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Superhoop,
I am currently researching our ancestry and found out that Samuel Arthur O'Keeffe was`our great great grandfather and his son wasEbenezer westwood O'Keeffe and his son was our father Ralph Anthony O'Keeffe who was born in Kota Bahru.
we have the birth certificate for Ebenezer Westwood O'Keeffe who lists that Samuel and Charlotte were their parents.
Richard
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O'Keeffe|_
Could you tell me who your parents are.I am the son of Ralph Anthony O'Keeffe and his father was Ebenezer Westwood o'Keeffe.
Ralph Anthony O'Keeffe was born in kota Bahru.
Ebenezer 's father was a Samuel O"O'Keeffe. are we talking about the same Samuel O'KeeffeDear Superhoop,
I am new to this site so am not on top of operating the quotes and replies. My posting shown below is addressed to you. I am a Gawthorne, descended from Dr Samuel Arthur Edward O'Keeffe (Sam) and Charlotte Sophie Alberta Westwood (Sophie) through their daughter Gwendoline. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Hello,
I think that I can help you with this side of the family. I am the Great Grandson of Dr Samuel O'Keeffe. My grandmother is Gwendoline O'Keeffe, the second daughter of Samuel and sister of Nora. They all lived in Penang. Claude O'Keeffe is the last of Samuel's children still alive. I have a photo of them all taken in Penang. How do we correspond with each other on the detail?
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Hi RJ O'Keeffe,
My parents are Ralph and Phyllis Gawthorne. Ralph is the son of Gwendoline O'Keeffe who is the sister of your Grandfather Ebenezer.
I have written a book about the O'Keeffes of Penang which includes a little information about your Grandfather. It was extremely difficult to get information about him because the living relatives I was able to find did not know much or were not sure of the facts.
I shall be delighted to discover more about his side of the family from you.
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Hi again RJO'Keeffe,
Please contact me through the RootsChat Personal Message that I have sent you.
I have quite a lot of information about your ancestors Samuel and Charlotte, their forbears and all the siblings.
Hoping to hear from you soon.
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
o good to receive this informatio,.I am living in Australia and we have been to Penang about four times as we love it there.
However, i think the RALPH O'KEEFFE was the son of Ebenezer Westwood O'Keeffe and Mary Carmaline Antonette O'Keeffe, and was born on 14th december 1920.Place of birth was Pasir Mas kelantan.Ebenezer westwood was` born 6th january 1892 to the parents of Samuel Arthur O'keeffe and Charlotte Soplica alberto Westwood.
You also mentioned that you have written a Book about the O'keeffe, could you please tell me how to buy a copy and where from.
I would love to talk to you. My email address is (*)
Regards
Richard
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
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Hi Jeff,
o good to receive this informatio,.I am living in Australia and we have been to Penang about four times as we love it there.
However, i think the RALPH O'KEEFFE was the son of Ebenezer Westwood O'Keeffe and Mary Carmaline Antonette O'Keeffe, and was born on 14th december 1920.Place of birth was Pasir Mas kelantan.Ebenezer westwood was` born 6th january 1892 to the parents of Samuel Arthur O'keeffe and Charlotte Soplica alberto Westwood.
You also mentioned that you have written a Book about the O'keeffe, could you please tell me how to buy a copy and where from.
I would love to talk to you. My email address is (*)
Regards
Richard
[/color]
Hi Richard,
There are TWO Ralphs in the O'Keeffe family, and both were grandsons of Samuel and Charlotte:
Ralph Anthony O'KEEFFE was the son of Ebenezer O'Keeffe and was your father
Ralph James O'Keeffe GAWTHORNE was the son of Gwendoline O'Keeffe and was my father
The origin of my father's name is explained in my book. They were all one big happy family.
Cheers,
Jeff
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Hi susiee,
I am trying to trace F W Harris who worked in the Mercantile Bank Penang and married Dorothy Plum in St Georges Church there on 15 April 1922.
Is he related to you? Is he Frederick William Harris I wonder?
Thanks
The Newspaper
"Planters Mail" Malaya.
Is a very useful tool for the Colonian period, it was the expat jungle drums of the day, the National Library in Canberra, Australia have films, im not sure who else has them though.
Also, ...the " Singapore Straits Times"
These 2 papers helped / or sealed finally a long 70 year search for the burial place of my Grandmother,
Mary Helen Harris
Died in Europeon Hospital in Seremban in Aug 1931
She and my Grandfather Ernest Frederic Harris had been in Malaya and elswhere up there for many years from Australia when Mary died at a young age post surgery.
Thanks to the Planters Mail we found her obit with everything we needed, my Father and his brother were at school in Melbourne when she died and were never told of the "details" which seems incredible now, but in 1931 it seems that was the deal for kids.
She is buried in the Catholic section of the Seremban Cemetry but the grave is now not recognisable like many, and many were damaged n WW2, so we cant even fix the grave as they are just inable to be identified sadly.
Oh just saw your link to SST Superhoop.
I have searched almost every archive available for any record of her death, so did all the other family, no one ever found anything anywhere. Thats the only record we ever found.
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Your grandmother Joyce lived in my fathers house in Portland square, she lived with her mother Nora in part of the house and my grandmother Freda and her husband. I met Claude once when he came to visit in the 60's. He taught me how Malayans wore Sarongs and introduced me to Krupuks Malayan prawn crackers in the early 60's that was a big deal then! I also met Michael and Robert Quinlan, they we a lot older than me (I remember them as "Teddy Boys") we heard a lot of bad stories about them and were discouraged from getting involved with them.As kids we were frightened by them!
I never knew the relationship between Joyce & Nora because Joyce looked completely different form Nora, Joyce had a very Oreintal look about her. Nora died and my Grandparents (Freda & husband) moved into sheltered accommodation, Joyce would visit sometimes when I was came to visit. My family lost contact with Joyce as Freda was the strong link. Saw her a couple of times around the Hewlett Road (Chelenham) area. Just read Jeff Gawthorne's excepts. Unbelievableall about my family WOW!
That's all folks
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Hello Sir Robert,
Great to hear from you! If Freda was your grandmother you must belong to one of the Barnett branches of the family. I have just recently been in touch with Michael and Paul Barnett, so if you are not one of them I wonder who you are?
I have published a book about the Samuel O'Keeffe family including what little I then knew about Freda, Nora and their sister Irene. Would love to learn more and correspond with you.
I will send you a private message and we can take it from there.
Jeff