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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: David Fowler on Friday 22 January 10 16:07 GMT (UK)

Title: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: David Fowler on Friday 22 January 10 16:07 GMT (UK)
I've come to a brick wall. My maternal Great Grandfather was Edwin Robert Southwell b 1871 in Birmingham. According to info I've received from someone down the tree, he married an Elizabeth Rebecca Carrington. They adopted my Grandfather b 1891 and had 3 more children between 1895 and 1903.
Try as I may I just can't find the marriage details. I want to do this to prove or not Elizabeth's ancestors as I think that the person who has supplied their details seems to have made a mistake with her parents etc. They have her father as a Corrington with an "O".
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 16:16 GMT (UK)
Births December qtr 1871 Edwin Robert  Southwell  Birmingham  6d 108

1901 census for Aston - all b Birmingham except Fanny

Edwin R Southwell 30 - edge tool grinder
Elizabeth  42 brass polisher
Fanny   6 b Nottingham
William   10
George 2
RG13 Piece 2870 Folio 161 Page 1
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 16:26 GMT (UK)
There is a birth for Elizabeth Rebecca Corrington 1859 Birmingham and I am wondering if this is her in 1861

1861 RG9; Piece: 2178; Folio: 37; Page: 20

Lizzie Corrington 1 yr born Birmingham

parents William and Elizabeth.

Does that fit with your information?

heywood

Mind you they have a daughter Elizabeth and a daughter Lizzie  ???
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 16:29 GMT (UK)
Births December qtr 1895  Fanny Maria  Southwell  Nottingham  7b 358 so they were together before 1895
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 16:40 GMT (UK)
If, by any chance, the one I gave is the right one- mum Elizabeth is married to Martin Feeney in 1871 and the child is still Lizzie.
1881 she is Elizabeth Carrington with mum Eliza Feeny. :-\

No- she is Elizabeth Babington married to John in 1891   
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: Mort29 on Friday 22 January 10 16:42 GMT (UK)
1871 Feeney / cOrrington
RG10; Piece: 3115; Folio: 69; Page: 10

1881 - ah, too late, pipped to the post
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 16:47 GMT (UK)
Oh how annoying  ::)

The one I thought was her - doesn't see to be.
However, your elizabeth is several years older than Edwin so perhaps could be married to someone else - especially as at the moment we can't find a marriage.

David, the best thing would be for you to tell us who you think are the parents and who the informant says they are - then we could look further.

best wishes
heywood

can't find John and Elizabeth Babington in 1901  :-\
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 17:24 GMT (UK)
EDWIN ROBERT SOUTHWELL   Birth:  30 SEP 1871   
Christening:  14 JUL 1872   Saint Bartholomew, Birmingham   
Father:  WILLIAM SOUTHWELL   Mother:  MARIA 
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 17:44 GMT (UK)
The 1871 image really does show Mary (not Maria) as 55yrs old so there must be an error as she was too old to have given birth to the last 2 children let alone Edwin.  It's the only Southwell entry though in Birmingham - all born there except 4 children shown

William Southwell 37 Tailor
Mary   55
Mary Ann  16
Ellen   15
William   14
Thomas  13
John   11 b London Middlesex
Rose  9  b London Middlesex
Alfred   6  b London Middlesex
Anne 4  b London Middlesex
Elizabeth  1

RG10 Piece 3116 Folio 85 Page 34

In 1881 Mary is 45 but they do not have a son called Edwin.  A son Benjamin Southwell was born September qtr 1871
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 18:17 GMT (UK)
1891 RG12; Piece: 1237; Folio 141; Page 17

Edward R Southwell 19 yrs b Birmingham is a lodger in Huntingdon
He is a Private in the King's Royal Rifles
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 18:28 GMT (UK)
A submitted family tree on Anc has Elizabeth Corrington as the child Elizabeth (rather than Lizzie) in the 1861 census. Lizzie is named as a sibling  :-\
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 18:32 GMT (UK)
I think the only way forward on this is to buy a copy of the 1871 birth cert to get his mothers maiden name

I am sending you a pm with some additional  info from another census
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 18:46 GMT (UK)
Lastly,

(and I wish I had done this first  ;)) there are extracted records on Family Search for Elizabeth rebecca- parents WIlliam and ELizabeth so it is over to you David - what do you think?

heywood
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 18:47 GMT (UK)
Quote
They adopted my Grandfather b 1891


This was George Downing - son of Charles Downing and Ruth Turner who married in Birmingham in 1879
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: julieproctor61 on Friday 22 January 10 22:43 GMT (UK)
hi

On freebmd there is a marriage for 

Edwin  R Southwell to an Elizabeth bolton
Sept Q 1918 in Aston. 

Could that be a second marriage for Elizabeth  ???as there is a marriage for 

Elizabeth Corrington with a Robert Bolton on the same page
Sept Q 1881 in birmingham

Julie
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 22:46 GMT (UK)
That's interesting Julie -worth looking for
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 23:08 GMT (UK)
If Robert Bolton was still alive - it would explain why there is no marriage.  It's likely Robert died around 1917/18 hence the late marriage
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 23:09 GMT (UK)
I can't find them at the moment  :(
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 23:14 GMT (UK)
1881 has Robert Bolton b 1858 Birmingham in lodgings in Birmingham occ brass caster
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Friday 22 January 10 23:15 GMT (UK)
Yes Carole,
that's the one I found but can't find him afterwards
heywood
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 22 January 10 23:24 GMT (UK)
The only one I can find is on the Scottish 1901 but I doubt it's him

Robert Bolton aged 41 b England - soldier at Fort George Barracks in Inverness
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: David Fowler on Saturday 23 January 10 04:43 GMT (UK)
Carole, Heywood, Mort and Julie. Wow! Thanks to you all. I'll be investigating your ideas this weekend Maybe it's useful to post the link to where this tree has been put on to Ancestry.
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/8498144/person/-940631783
Hope that works, if not the poster is:
longcroft262
I've sent a message to them via Ancestry but so far no reply. BUT, via a contact on another branch of my line I've discovered that this person is known and I've asked to pass on my email details.
Isn't life fascinating and frustrating :D

PS, just tried the link in my post and it does work.
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: julieproctor61 on Saturday 23 January 10 08:58 GMT (UK)
The only one I can find is on the Scottish 1901 but I doubt it's him

Robert Bolton aged 41 b England - soldier at Fort George Barracks in Inverness


how about this one in 1891 ?

RG12/2367 folio 31 page 16

Occupation solder, living with Earles family states half brother and marrried but no wife listed

Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Saturday 23 January 10 11:26 GMT (UK)
Hi David,

that is one the trees referred to here and the difficulty is, I think, is it Elizabeth or Lizzie who is the right one. Is that right?
From the age and also IGI extracted records 'Lizzie' seems to be Elizabeth Rebecca.
There is a problem though in 1891 with Elizabeth Babington b abt 1861 with a 'husband' John. There is a child Christopher John Babington (Free BMD births) but he is listed as a boarder so presumably not Elizabeth's as there are two other Babington men there also.
John was younger anyway, so if she is the older daughter she may have lied about her age.
I think that John Babington is living in Yorkshire 1901 with 'wife' Helen. (all so complicated  ::)) but no sign anywhere of young Christopher to place him with a family.
There is a death for an Elizabeth Anne Carrington 1862 Birmingham but I don't think it's the older Elizabeth.
Lastly, the Elizabeth Corrington/Robert Bolton marriage could be the older Elizabeth too - I am confused  :-\
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: David Fowler on Saturday 23 January 10 12:09 GMT (UK)
Nice to see someone as venerable as you, Heywood, are as confused as I am ;D
Title: Re: Southwell/Carrington
Post by: heywood on Saturday 23 January 10 12:11 GMT (UK)
Oh it doesn't take much  ;D

It does make me laugh when (people like me) talk about the 'easiness' of relationships in the present day and then we just start to look at our ancestors and ... well...  ::)