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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Hirdy on Friday 22 January 10 11:35 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find out any information on Christina who is my gggrandmother, and her parents and family. I do not know her date of birth or where she was born. The only information I have is that she married Alexander Yeaman in Falkland in 1848 and that in the 1851 Census she resided in Cross Wynd Street, Falkland, Fife with her husband sons Alexander & John.
Christina died between 1853 & 1855 as Alexander married his second wife Janet in 1855 in Burntisland.
Christina and Alexander had 3 sons together, the eldest son Alexander married Anne Orange Blues in Liverpool and emigrated to Australia with their 2 daughters in 1876.
I have read several of the topics of Beveridge and Belfrage, but cannot work out where my Christina Belfrage fits in.
Any help appreciated.
Hirdy
Melbourne AUS
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Hi Hirdy
On the 1851 census entry you have, Christina (Christian) is showing as born c. 1823 in Falkland Fife. Might help with any birth searches for her :)
Monica
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One possible christening entry for her from IGI:
CHRISTAN BELFRAGE Christening: 06 MAY 1821 Falkland, Fife
Parents:JOHN BELFRAGE and MARGARET STORRAR
Monica
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hi, she is not on the fife deathindex or in the MI's.
there are 5 yeaman children of an Alexander on the index but all died before your marriage. (Strathmiglo)
Diddy
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the birth monica found is the only one on SP for a Christian belfrage/C, Belfrage 1820 - 1825 Falkland so probably her.
Diddy
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I think you are both right that Christina was born 1821. Does anyone know anything about her parents or where John Belfrage fits in with all the other topics about Belfrage/Beveridge?
Thanks for all your help. The next challenge is tracking down her death details. Where should I look given the period is between 1853 & 1855?
Hirdy
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Hirdy, re her death as stated i have already checked the fife index and MI's, both pre 1855. only SP left and their coverage isn't complete.
Diddy
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Hi Hirdy
If you are successul in finding a death entry in the Parish Registers, you are unlikely to be able to confirm parents' details from there unfortunately. Official registration began in Scotland in 1855 and entries in the Old Parish Registers in the main contain very little info, although sometimes you can find the odd entry that includes a little bit more than expected.
From IGI entries which give some of the children for John Belfrage and wife Margaret Storrar (a few spellings for this surname!), this looks to be the family in 1841. Likely mother Margaret had died by this time:
John Belfrage 50, Linen H L W
Henry Belfrage 20
Elisabeth Belfrage 20
Lillias Belfrage 15
Jean Belfrage 14
Isabell Belfrage 12
Janet Belfrage 10
Address: Cash East, Strathmiglo Fife
And for 1851 - spellings on the transcription are not great ::):
John Belfruye 64, Hand Loom Weaver Propietor Of 2 Houses b. Falkland
Elizabeth Belfruye 29 b. Falkland
Jean Belfruye 25 b. Strathmiglo
Janet Belfruye 20 b. Strathmiglo
James Belfruye 9, grandson b. Auchtermuchty, Fife
Robert Sinssay 13, daug's son. b. Crommon (Crammond?), Midlothian
Address: Strathmiglo, Fife
And last entry I can see for him:
John Belfridge 74, hand loom weaver b. Falkland
Isabella Fair 29, daughter
David Fair 4
Address: Stewart Lodge, Strathmiglo
Given the date of this census, you should be able to view John Belfrage's death cert on Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk This would let you confirm his parents' names, if known to the informant of his death.
Have you got access to Ancestry? There are a couple of family trees on there following the line of children Henry and Isabella.
Monica :)
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Thank you Monica. That fills in a lot of gaps. I don't have access to Scotlands People at this stage unless I decide to pay to use it. Similarly with Ancestry.com. although I do know someone who subscribes.
Hirdy
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From one of the trees, John's parents are showing as Henry Belfrage and Alison Beath - not clear whether this came from his death cert so would need to be verified ::)
Monica
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Hi Hirdy
I have an Alison Belfrage in my tree, married to Thomas Page, Alison was born about 1790 in Falkland, Fife, but I can't find an entry for her birth. Parents on her death certificate are Henry Belfrage and Alison Beath, so if the tree Monica mentions is right then Alison would be a sister to Christian.
Thomas and Alison were lived in Auchtermuchty, Fife and had 4 sons. She left a will, but there is no mention of her own family.
Cheers
Heather
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Hi Heather
Your Alison would be aunt to Christian, sister to John, if we have the right family :)
Have you managed to get anywhere researching Henry and Alison, I'm struggling to find anything on them :-\
Monica
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Hi
Your right, an Aunt, sorry! I have found a will for a Henry Belfrage, (according to Alison's death cert he was a farmer), but I haven't paid for it yet, was hoping to find some more info before I did, I so hate wasting money!!
I'll let you know if I do.
Heather
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HI
Here is some info on the kiddies of John Belfrage and Margaret Storrar - all info is from Scotlands People website.
Christian born 06 May 1821 Falkland
Lilias born 05 Jan 1823 Strathmiglo
Isabel born 23 Sep 1827 Falkland
Janet born 10 Oct 1830 Strathmiglo
Also - John Belfrage and Margaret Storr
Jane born 29 Jan 1826 Strathmiglo
Also John Belfrage and MARY Storrar
Elizabeth born 8 Jun 1817 Falkland
No luck on Henry Belfrage or Alison Beath as yet
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Hi Christina was my Great Grandmothers sister..Janet married Robert Robertson
Su
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hi
this looks like margaret from strathmiglo married to john belfarge
from fife death index
Margaret STORRAR Strathmiglo,Cash 8 Jul 1838 52 OPR OPR428 Old Parochial Registers
jacci
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hi
i'll leave you to sort out these
jacci
Henry BELFRAGE Falkland 27 Aug 1811 60 husband Alison Beath Recorded on Henry Belfrage\Janet Arnot stone MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Alison BELFRAGE BEAT: Falkland 7 Aug 1811 52 wife Andrew Belfrage MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Alison BEATH BELF: Falkland 7 Aug 1811 52 wife Andrew Belfrage MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Andrew BELFRAGE Falkland,Knowe Jun 1826 68 son Henry Belfrage\Jane Arnot MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Henry BELFRAGE Falkland,W Conland 9 Mar 1777 68 husband Janet Arnot MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Janet BELFRAGE ARNO: Falkland,W Conland 5 Oct 1797 68 widow Henry Belfrage(esq) MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Janet ARNOT BELF: Falkland,W Conland 5 Oct 1797 68 widow Henry Belfrage(esq) MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
George BELFRAGE Falkland,W Conland Apr 1809 68 son Henry Belfrage\Jane Arnot MI's Farrel Monumental Inscriptions
Henry BELFRAGE Falkland,W Conlands Mar 1784 Grandfather of Henry Belfrage - farmer at Ravelston SofH Service of Heirs/Printed Services of Heirs
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Thanks Jacci..have some of that info but bit confusing. Are monumental inscriptions gravestones? Dont laugh!!
Was told that Henry Belfrage was buried out at Tillicoultry but unable to find his grave there. Though noticed on here last night he was a farmer so maybe i have been following wrong person.
Do you have any info on Robert Robertson from Strathmiglo who married Janet Belfrage? Think Parents were Robert Robertson and Margaret Bonella...
Thanks for your help
Susan
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hi
hope this is what your looking for.
Margaret BONELLO Strathmiglo 23 Aug 1854 43 OPR OPR 457 Old Parochial Registers
if robert died after 1855 he won't be on the death index, but will be on sp that will give you his parents for sure.
all in there are 64 roberts from fife 3 from strathmiglo but they are 1731, 1732 and 1785
jacci
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hi susan
i didn't laugh and yes MIs are gravestone inscriptions
jacci
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Hi Jac
Where did you get that info. I went to Falkland and didnt find any graves with names on but they all match my ancestors.Will need to go over there again.
Su
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hi su
the info is on the fife death index pre 1855 cd. there is no mention of an MI so a search of the graveyards would most likely be fruitless.
the info i sent is the same as you would get if you downloaded it from SP.
jacci
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sorry su
didn't realise you were a newbie welcome to rootschat
jacci
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Hi Jacci
thanks..yes new to RootsChat. I think i have looked on here a few times but without joining.
Have found Margaret Storrars death on SP but cant find Belfrage deaths(this has been problem for a while). I gave up looking for them before and moved on to other side of family.
Su
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hi su
what other familys are you looking for in fife. i might be able to help, i live in fife so i can access quite a few of the old records.
when you used sp did you use variations for belfrage?
jacci
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Hi Hirdy
I have John Belfrage`s death as 13th June 1866 in District of St Andrews,Edinburgh.
He is aged 80. Has Henry Belfrage as his Father and Alison Beath as Mother.
Hope this helps
Suzic
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Hi Jacci
Yes I tried variations of the names. As I said got fed up and moved on but will try again.
Robertson is the family name I was trying to trace..very common though.
On my Motheres side is Philp and Davidson.Thought Philp was an unusual name but doesnt appear to be.
Are your relatives from Fife?
Su
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hi su
yes my relatives are from fife for the past 100 years, before that they came from all over scotland i got stuck on my dads side at 1800s but mums i've traced with help to the late 1500s in wick.
i was lucky found out i had a couple of distant cousins who were genealogists.
jacci
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Hi Jacci
That was a lucky find.
My Dad not the least bit interested in this and his Mother never kept in touch with her cousins.
I thought we had a small family but is not the case.
Su
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hi su
it was i never knew my granmothers both had died before i was born. and i hardly knew my grandfathers as i lived abroad most of my life. i'm still finding out about my direct cousins some of whom i never met or didn't know of till recently
jacci
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So what made you get into Family History.
I knew my Dad`s` mum and her sisters and brother.But there was never any mention of their parents having siblings.As far as I knew they were both only children and came from Stirling area.
Now all except one have died and I dont find it easy to ask her questions.
My mum is trying to trace her family as well. We have visited a few graveyards in Fife and found few of her family
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i've always loved history, and after dad died mum wanted to trace her family tree. then i was lucky enough to get an old pc, and just took it from there.
dads side through his dad goes back to stirlingshire and mums side through her dad goes back to midlothian. granmothers side fife and grans side banff and wick. so i jump back and forth whenever one side comes to a sticky patch. then i go back to it later on.
are you in fife?
jacci
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Hi Jacci
I am in little place called Braco just north of Dunblane. Spent most of my life in Stirling though so if there is anything I can help you with I would be happy to do that.
The Fife cd that i was told me about..where would i be able to get that?
Your family is like mine and scattered everywhere..I have relatives from Skye and Lewis as well as Northumberland,Ayrshire,Black Isle ,Ireland, Kirkcudbright and Fife.
Really enjoy doing this and get a real buzz when i find something new.
Can get expensive though!! :D :D
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hi su
yes i know braco hubby and i have passed through it many times, more than likely i'll be passing that way again tomorrow, we're off for another day up the highlands. just to catch a glimpse of the last snow on the hills. its a long day out but the scenery is well worth it.
jacci
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hi su
heres the link for ordering the cd
jacci
http://www.fifefhs.org/
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where are you heading to?
We were supposed to be going to Glenshee tomorrow but looks more like Sunday now. Get my 2 boys some snow for skiing.Makes me laugh though as I have been snowed in since last week and still loads of the white stuff in the garden and on roof.
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thanks for that address. Do you find cd useful?
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probably up to glencoe, hubby desparate to try try out new car and sat nav on a long journey. Grankids banned from this trip.
cds great if you have a lot of relatives from fife pre 1855.
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Have great time then and i hope that Sat Nav doesnt let your hubby down. ;)
Give us a wave as you pass Braco!!
Thanks for your help
Su
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will do su
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hi su
you might want to check out perth for your robert robertson just found this
ROBERT ROBERTSON
Male
________________________________________Marriages:
Spouse: JANET BELFRIDGE
Family
Marriage: 20 JAN 1853 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland
HELEN MURRAY ROBERTSON Female
Female
________________________________________Event(s):
Birth: 04 OCT 1855 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland
________________________________________Parents:
Father: ROBERT ROBERTSON
Mother: JANET BELFRAGE
HENRY BELFRAGE ROBERTSON Male
Male
07 SEP 1867 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland
________________________________________Parents:
Father: ROBERT ROBERTSON
Mother: JANET BELFRAGE
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su
i meant to say also go for the 1855 birth on sp. as its 1855 just at the start of the change over from oprs it will a lot of extra info that the later ones don't have.
jacci
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hi su
a wee bit more info in case you don't have it
jacci
Jessie Robertson
maiden name
Balfrage born c1831
died 1910 Balfron Stirling
Robertson Robert
Born c 1833
died 1907 Balfron Stirling
JOHN ROBERTSON
born 20 APR 1872 Lecropt, Perth, Scotland
JEMIMA ROBERTSON
born 07 FEB 1874 Lecropt, Perth, Scotland
ANNIE ALLISON ROBERTSON
born 02 APR 1869 Lecropt, Perth, Scotland
Father: ROBERT ROBERTSON
Mother: JANET BELFRAGE
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Thanks Jacci
I have that stuff as he is my gggrandfather. I have his birth details and on census` etc. What i am having problems with is are his parents and from there back.
They were Robert Robertson and Margaret Bonella..cant find marriage for them or on census or deaths.
Thanks
Su
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hi su
was he definately born in strathmiglo
if he was i'll check the original oprs next time i'm at the library
jacci
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Hiya
Yes born Strathmiglo..says on all census` i have
His birth says he was born there on 20/01/1833
He died in Arnprior and thats where i thought family were from
Su
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Hi Jacci
That would be great if you could look family up. I have Robert staying with Bonella family on 1841 census so that makes me pretty sure I have got the correct birth certificate
Su
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hi su
had a quick look at the strathmiglo oprs its very hard to read them, i didn't see anything but will recheck next time. most of the entrys are pretty much unreadable (i should have taken my glasses or a magnifing glass).
a point of interest on another Fife thread:
Re: Balmain, Malcolm, William, Walter - Wemyss
You mention a Balmain married to a Berrage. This latter name shows the local pronunciation of Beveridge, a common surname in the Kirkcaldy area, which has many spelling variants. It also used to be spelt Belfrage, in which form it was taken to Sweden by Scottish emigrants.
jacci
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Hi Jacci
Thank you for looking that up for me. I will check the name you mentioned.
I have had difficulty with a few downloads from SP website as they are unreadable. Even with magnifying glass.
Spent the day yesterday on Family Research and trying to organise the info I have. Amazing how many times you can write same thing down just in a different format!!
Thanks again
Su :D
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I have a Margaret Imrie Bonella in my tree and would like to find out more but have not been able to. Any help here. Thanks Geraldine
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Hi All from Australia,
I just started to have another look at Christina and found all these wonderful new replies.
Su,
From what I can gather we are related through the sisters Christina and Janet Belfrage.
I have a lot of info on Christina and her descendants that emigrated in Melbourne in 1876. I would love to find out more about the family of Janet. I assume she was also known as Jessie.
Jac2,
I was a little confused with the Farrel Monumental Inscriptions for Alison Beath, because they mention an Andrew Belfrage whereas I thought she was married to Henry Belfrage. I can't work out where Andrew fits in.
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Hi Jac.
Thanks for message.
Yes I am related to Janet Belfrage who had a sister Christan born in 1821 in Strathmiglo. Janet is my 2x great grandmother.
I had been looking for information concerning rest of family so would be great to fill in.
I too am having difficulty with Andrew Belfrage. Though Henry did have a brother by that name. I was pulling my hair out trying to get correct order and marriages.
Hope to hear from you again
Su
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Hi, referring to the post on 23rd Jan 2010. The Robert Sinssay mentioned is actually Robert Lindsay, born Crammond 1838. He was my great great grandmother Margaret Belfrage's son. Her parents were John Belfrage and Margaret Storrar. Along with my great granddad John Lindsay, they all appear in the 1841 census for Strathmiglo.
Stuart
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Stuart,
Thanks for the info. I have very little information on Robert Lindsay apart from the fact that he married Margaret Fleming and had a daughter Margaret born in 1878. Would appreciate anything else. Use private email chat if you like.
Hirdy
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Hi Hirdy,
Familysearch list Robert and Margaret's children as Robert, Margaret Belfrage and Jessie, all born Auchtermuchty (although Robert is mistakenly listed as being born in Auchterderran). I think he married Wilhelmina Gardiner. Their headstone is in Auchtermuchty.
Stuart
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Hi Hirdy,
I've just come into this discussion about Christina Belfrage born 1823 (or 1821) and working my way through the replies since your first post. I'm also looking into the Fife ancestry, but I'd started with my great grandmother Christina Belfridge Yeaman who was one of the 2 daughters who arrived in Melbourne in 1876 with parents Alexander Yeaman and Ann Orange Blues. I found that my gg had married a Jas McKenzie in Victoria in 1889 when she was either 18 or 21 (??). I was hoping to get a copy of the marriage certificate but no reply yet from Victoria bmd. What I knew about this Christina is that she came to New Zealand not long after this marriage and had her first child there with James Cameron Shirreffs from Aberdeen. I haven't yet found a record of their marriage, but his brother's and sister's are recorded. In New Zealand, they had 9, maybe 10 children, starting from 1893 (so not long after the first marriage). They were the parents of my grandmother, Florence.
And yes, I would be very interested indeed, if you could fill me in on what you know about Alexander Yeaman and family and their time in Melbourne.
Best wishes,
Robyn
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Robyn,
I am the great-grand-daughter of Matilda Yeaman, Christina's younger sister. I have a lot of information on the Yeamans, Blues, Belfrages etc. and am happy to share. When you have enough posts (I think it is about 5) we can communicate privately.
I have several certificates including the marriage certificate of Alexander Yeaman and Ann Orange Blues. I don't have any information on your great grandmother Christina, apart from the fact that she married James MacKenzie in Vic in 1889 and had a daughter Annie who died in 1890. Anything would be appreciated.
Be in touch.
Hirdy
Melbourne
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Hi Hirdy,
The great granddaughter of Matilda! I'm very much looking forward to this information you can share with me about our ancestral past that I've only started to learn about. And thank you for that clue about the child, Annie who died. I'd wondered about the possibility of earlier children. Do you think James had a middle name?
I'll speak to my father soon about anything he might remember being told. He's old, but was brought up around all that side of the family, the many of them. As I grew up 300 miles away, I'd see them very occasionally, so was only acquainted with those who didn't live in my grandmother's neighbourhood.
all the best,
Robyn
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Robyn,
Once you get a bright green little flag (about 5 posts) we can go private. I you are now at 2.
A bit more information to wet your appetite, but there is lots more to come. I hope I don't overwhelm you.
Alexander Yeaman and Anne Orange Blues married 2 Aug 1869 in Liverpool. They had 4 children, Christina (your relative), Matilda (1873 - 1959), Alexander (1879-1879) and Annie (1886-1886). The oldest 2 were born in Liverpool and traveled to Melbourne with their parents. The younger 2 were born in Melbourne but did not survive long.
Alexander Yeaman was born in Scotland about 1848 and died 7 January 1886. Annie was born 16 July 1846 and died 7 October 1947, at the age of 101. I have a lovely photo of her (your great great grandmother) as a very old woman in 1935 with my grandfather George Alexander Morris. I also have a photo of Matilda with her mother Annie about the same date.
Hirdy
(real name Chris{tine}).
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Christine, two or three posts on the main forum should be enough for Robyn's Private Message service (PMs) to be activated :)
Monica
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Hi Christine,
And I'll just have to wait until the green flag shows up. Until then, I'm really looking forward to finding out more from you. I'm so curious about what happened to these people when they were in Melbourne. I'd like to know about their life in Liverpool too. I was noseying around Bridgewater street on Streetview - where John and Ann lived, and according to the 1871 census, with a very large number of boarders, nieces and nephews. Most of the buildings, right by the wharves, are now demolished. I'm still looking for information on what the demolished buildings were. Curiously, there was a 1 year old living with them (another Ann Orange), described as their daughter, when by then they were a wee bit too old for producing more children, unless she was a grandchild. . . .
Before too long I may have to go and walk on the very soil of my ancestors in Fifeshire.
Robyn
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Robyn,
I actually went to many of the towns and villages of the various families when I visited my daughter in England last October. Took lots of photos, although haven't sorted them all out. Only drove in and out of Liverpool because of all the traffic. Had a great time in many parts of Fifeshire including Auchtermuchty & Strathmiglo.
Keep in touch
Chris
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Hi Christine,
I need to spend more time analysing all this information above. It's great that there's so much interest and informed input when I've come into the discussion at this advanced stage. I'm preparing an enormously complex local history talk for this Thursday, so will get back to you after it's over.
All the best,
Robyn