RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: medhist on Thursday 21 January 10 09:36 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Could anyone tell me the best way to approach getting information on people buried here and listed in their online index Please? I have repeatedly emailed Hackney Archives and the APC Trust but they never reply.
I have loads of ancestors buried there and would like to know who owned their graves plots and any other people buried with those listed, such as spouses. I am reluctant to send £15 per person to DErek Hopkins in Canada as his website has not been updated since 2001. The APCTrust information is not terribly up to date either.
Does anybody know whether it is still safe to send off the research requests and payment to Derek Hopkins at the address he gjves in Canada? There are such a lot of burials so it would be a hefty amount to send off on Spec!
I would be really grateful if anyone has done this recently and can assure me that I won't be losing cash.
Thanks
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It does seem awful hard to find out anything about Abney Park Cem. I see that the Trust's website is currently being updated so hopefully the new version will be better. There used to be a Friends of Abney Park group but I don't see reference to that now though there is a similar group for children. I hope too that the new site gives full contact details. To be fair I don't know if this is something which is run completely or partly by volunteers and I don't doubt that there are lots of good things happening in regard to educational/environmental and historical events, many aimed at children, but the online information does need a lot of improvement. My advice is not to go sending off your money. I have emailed Abney Park today as I want to know more about their "digital photograph of memorial stones" offer and am uncertain how to go about this. If I learn any more I will post the information here.
Chirp
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Have you just tried calling the cemetary office. The hardest part of this task is getting hold of the office number, you have to in some cases do some digging around phone books & websites.
I have done this in the past (not Abney Park) & have found the staff in most cemetaries very knowledgable & helpful. And in one case as I knew the grave number, they even went to have a look to see if there was a marker of any kind on the grave, they called me back & told me there was not one. This saved me a lot of time traipsing across London to visit an unmarked grave, having done this before it is very disappointing. They were also able to tell me who owned the grave from their records.
If you live within the M25 it may be worthwhile visiting, you never know.
I did a look up for someone in a one of the 3 in Woolwich (SE London) & once found out the right one, the groundsmen I spotted helped me to find the grave I was looking for. IF not for them would never have found it, although in numerical order, the numbers changed dramatically on the next row. Took some photos, sadly not a grave with a gravestone, but one with a low "wall" type memorial around it, with names & dates on, but due to age very badly worn.
Do not know if this info helps, but it's all worth a try.
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Thanks to both of you. I wish it were possible to visit although it was a closed in 1978 as a cemetery and is now a Park. I live in Swansea so too faraway to visit. I have heard it is very neglected and overgrown by people who have attempted it.
The trust has made such an effort to index people buried there and putting them online but if they have common names it is difficult to know whether you have found your correct relative or not.
I really hope I can have success with more emails. I have not managed to find a telephone number. Derek Hopkins has supposedly a website but the link on the site is broken.
I shall persevere!
Thanks
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Hi there
http://www.abney-park.org.uk/about
there is an email link to 'Lisa' and a phone number. You may have to leave a message on their answerphone
Dawn
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Thanks. I have emailed Lisa numerous times. Also no reaction to leaving phone messages . I think that number is just to do with joining the FRiends of Abney Park. I shall keep trying though.
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Right think this might be of some help
Go to Google enter - Abney Park Cemetary - then go to the - Wikipedia - entry (very informative) then right down the bottom are links to other sites look at the - FLICKR - site lots of photos & names, you might be able to contact the photographers.
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Thank you. The pics are great and your idea brilliant. They give a really good idea of how it looks. I shall try to contact a few of the photographers.
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Hi
Just to put it in context a little - Abney Park Cemetery occupies 32 acres some of which when I visited it was considerably overgrown (the older parts of the cemetery are a nature reserve and it took a bit of macheting even in February to reach the gravestones I was looking for). It is a very large cemetery and you really need plot numbers and a map if you are to find gravestones, if you know gravestones are likely to be there (many families in the past not having the money to either buy a gravestone or a plot). A good indication of whether the families did buy gravestones and plots is whether they left wills and their occupations on censuses. Many gravestones have not survived the ravages of time which included the London air pollution which lasted up to the 1950s.
The Abney Trust (Abney Park Cemetery is privately managed) may be the only ones to hold the registers on plot purchases as opposed to the ordinary cemetery registers the microfilm copies of which are held at Hackney Archives and which have been indexed online.
Cemetery registers usually give the name of the deceased, age, abode and occupation, the date of death and of burial, and the position of the grave. If a private grave was purchased those records will indicate who purchased the plot, their address and when it was purchased and whether a gravestone was erected (though not whether it survives). The records will also indicate who else was buried in the plot, when and at what depths.
If you know your families were likely to be able to buy plots then a search on one name will give all the others buried in the same plot, all of which doesn't help much if the Abney Trust isn't answering emails, though it may be responding if you are filling in forms and sending cheques.
Many Londoners were buried in common graves which contained other burials. Burial in a common grave was not synonymous with a pauper funeral. It did not mean the funeral itself was not paid for by the family it just means they couldn't afford to buy a plot. If that is the case then the information from the burial register will be all the information there is to obtain.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you, Valda.
I knew quite a lot of this. I think at least three of my families would have been able to purchase plots; they had businesses or shops so may well have afforded to buy them. I didn't realise that just sending for one of the family would give me the rest buried in the plot. This would cut down the expense as there are over 30 of my family members who were buried there.
Do you think it is safe to send one name from each family with a cheque for each to the Trust representative in Canada as APCT suggests? I am mainly concerned because that part of the website has not been updated for nearly a decade.
Thanks again for the information.
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Hi
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question. The website seems to imply that all that have is a cross reference to plot numbers.
'We have an indexing project web site (click here), which will enable you to find if a person is buried here and what details are held, but this will not give you the information you need to find the location of the grave on the ground. The Trust has maps of where the plots are that were held by families from the former Abney Park Cemetery Company before it closed in 1978. We will carry out a search of the company indexes and send the appropriate map on to you.'
The website states the cheque should be sent to
A cheque should be sent to the 'Abney Park Cemetery Trust', South Lodge, Abney Park, Stoke Newington High Street, London N16 0LN.
'We research memorials and grave locations @£8 each; we offer a digital photo service of memorial stones @£10 each'
The same search done in Canada (no photograph of course) seems to be £15. The last revision of the website appears to have been made in 2004
Have you tried phoning Abney Park Cemetery Trust?
Regards
Valda
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Hi I am new here and I am following the discussion with interest as I am searching for World War I casualty who is commemorated on the Screen Wall at Abney Park, but is also buried in the cemetery, most likely in an unmarked grave. I have a Plot number and grave reference but have no idea where I can obtain a plan of the cemetery and start trying to locate the grave. I have tried the contacts on the web page but no answers.
Does anyone know where I can get a plan of the cemetery please? Many thanks
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Hello Kookaburra
Welcome to Rootschat. As you can see several people have been trying to obtain information from Abney Park Cem. and currently without success. Do keep coming back and looking at this thread, also keep going back to the Abney Park website. You could also try sending a letter to the address given on the website but I would strongly urge you to send no money at this stage, wait until things are back to normal. Fingers crossed some kind rootschatter who is familiar with the cemetery may be able to advise you further. Sorry not be able to offer more help.
Chirp
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Hi
There is a plan of Abney Park cemetery at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~abneypark/abneyy.html
Regards
Valda
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Thank you so much Valda, This is great
I did try some "googling" first, but obviously still have lots to learn!
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Hi
The links are all in the help guide at the top of the London and Middlesex boards
A GUIDE TO BURIALS IN THE LONDON AREA
Regards
Valda
co-moderator London and Middlesex
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Thanks to both of you. I wish it were possible to visit although it was a closed in 1978 as a cemetery and is now a Park. I live in Swansea so too faraway to visit. I have heard it is very neglected and overgrown by people who have attempted it. ........
Thanks
I have just visited Abney Park cemetery twice. Once last Friday when I felt so threatened I had to leave and then again today when I went back with my husband (ex military) who was also very ill at ease. Do not go to this cemetery alone. We were stared at and followed - the same person turning up at different twists and turns in the paths and just staring at us. Apparently there was an assault there last December and there is a patrol at 1pm each day. I work for different war graves groups and have visited literally hundreds of cemeteries all over the world - without a doubt Abney Park has to be the most threatening. And now the historian I work for wants me to go back.....don't think so....!
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Thanks for that. It confirms what I have heard from others who have tried.
Valerie
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In June last year I visited the Abney Park Cemetery hoping to find graves of ancestors, however, although we had a map purchased for 10 pounds from the Friends of AP office on site, we were unable to locate the graves due to the brambles and ivy jungle which abounds in this cemetery. (The rellies would have had gravestones because the husband was once an MP). You would need a machete to cut through this vegetation. Perhaps a better time to visit in winter.
Disappointing that we had come from Oz but at least we know where they are buried. PS If you are visiting the Cemetery bear in mind that the volunteers are not always in attendance. Regards, Margaret.
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Hi
I emailed Abney yesterday and they replied to me today, I thought this was very quick. They enlightened be that you only need to contact hackney if you are looking for someone who died after 1970.
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Thanks for that. On that evidence I have just emailed them again at their new website. Will wait and see what happens.
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This is the email address that I used:
abney-park @ geo2.poptel.org.uk
They responded via this one too. Good Luck
Moderator comment: email address amended, if you need to make contact, please remove the space before and after the @