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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mongoose2 on Monday 18 January 10 09:06 GMT (UK)
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apologies if this be the wrong board however common with this family the people I am trying to trace haven't remained in one place and I have a mix of Canada, Channel islands and London.
The facts as I know them are as follows.
John William Danson HOSE married Emma Elizabeth HOSE his cousin on the 31st October 1847 St Peter's Walworth, Newington, Surrey (now part of London) they moved to Ramsgate where they have several children. (all documented from Canterbury archives) he doesnt appear on 1851 census although she does as a Trinity House mariners wife. By 1861 she is calling herself a widow.
Further research on the London Metropolitan archives has found a lady called Ida Malvina Hose marrying twice once in 1866 and again in 1867 to the same Robert Charles Tucker. details as follows
1st on 21/7/1866 St Peter, Newington (where John William danson HOSE lived and got married) Robert is an Actuary and Ida states her father is John HOSE a Naval Officer (deceased) witnesses were Henry George HOSE and Adelaide Eleanor HOSE. (1st Cousin and 1st cousin once removed respectively to John William Danson HOSE)
2nd Marriage 30/9/1867 St Pancras Parish Church details are same as to family but differnt witnesses. This is odd in and of itself as people dont usually marry twice!!
Now looking for Ida Malvina in prevous censii I find in 1861 Mahina (malvina) HOSE living at 43 London Street, St Pancras aged 47 born St Johns, Newfoundland with Daughter Ida aged 15 born Guernsey.
in 1851 census we have at 2 Lambeth Cottages, St Peter Port, Guernsey the following
Peter Egan aged 28 Head Professer of Music born England
Malvena HOSE age 38 cousin born New Brunswick
Ida BLOTT age 7 visitor born St Peter Port
+ 2 further visitors
Now what I need to find out is John William Danson HOSE the father of Ida Malvina BLOTT / HOSE
just to add a little to this in the first marriage in 1866 Adelaide Eleanor Hose b. 1855 dies in the last quarter of 1866 (just after the wedding) and in 1867 her parents have another daughter whom they call Adelaide Malvina Elizabeth HOSE. hardly a coincidence.
Barry
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Hi Barry
This might be Malvina in 1841....
1841: Nr 40 Longston - St Peters Port, Guernsey
HO107/ Piece 1460/ Book: 13/ Folio: 32/ Page: 12/
Joshua le BRETON 55, Shipwright J - b Jersey
Susanna le BRETON 35 - b Jersey
Charles le BRETON 15, Carpenter Ap - b Jersey
/
Nicholas DAY 20, Carpenter J , b Guernsey
Mulonia BLOTT 30, Ind , b America
Adelaide BLOTT 11, b England
Manton BLOTT 9, b England (male)
Cheers
AMBLY
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Strange that there is also this one as well....
on freebmd Ida Melvina Hose
Edward Peake
George Foot
Honorine Wagner, ( appear on 1871 census together)
1862 qt1 St Pancras reg district.
Tazzie
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Hmmm - that is strange ! If same girl - I wonder it that's something to do with the 2 marriages to TUCKER, like maybe the first one to TUCKER was 'declared not legal ???
Here's the last two census for Malvina
1871: 17 Dale Road, St Pancras
RG10 / Piece: 242 / Folio: 80 / Page: 49
Head: Robert C TUCKER 25, Insurance Clerk, b Pimlico
Wife: Ida M TUCKER 24, b Guernsey
Mother-in-Law: Malvina I. S. HOSE 57, widow, Annuitant, b British North America
(a certain source has transcribed her surname as HORE, which is does look like, but could also be HOSE)
1881: 28 Carlton Street, St Pancras
RG11 / Piece: 217 / Folio: 132 / Page: 71
Head: Mary Ann DURHAM 54, widow, b London
Son: Edgar DURHAM 24, unm, Clerk, b London
Son: John DURHAM 21, unm, Joiner, b London
Dau: Laura l DURHAM 20, unm, Dressmaker, b London
Boarder: William K (or R) LITTLEFIELD 20, unm, Smith, b Rotherhithe
Boarder: Malvenie HOSE 75, widow, Officers Widow, b N. K.
(Malvina's 'occupation' has been struck thru by the checker - obviously because it's not an occupation as such and doesn't fit into statistical analysis criteria. Definitely says "Officers Widow" - but a certain source has transcribed the 2nd word as "mistress' - what a let down to see it says 'widow')
FreeBMD DEATH:
Malvina Jane S HOSE age 78 - Pancras Sep Qtr 1882
Also, to note: In 1861, she was in the household of Henry EGAN, (not Peter).
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks all
Is there by any chance any sign of or marriage to John HOSE in 1841 - 1851 records for St Pter Port. He definitely married his cousin in 1847 and that says batchelor!!
Bary
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you may also Ambly have solved another brick wall.
I have always had on my tree 3 children for John HOSE snr who was an RN officer but have never found a wife. John HOSE senior was born 1790 and had 3 children
Adelaide
Stanton
and John William Danson HOSE
with that 1841 Guernsey census you may have solved just who mum was. whether John snr as their father may remain a mystery.
So I wonder if Malvina Blott married John HOSE snr and took in Adelaide and Stanto as his own.
Barry
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Ah! ;D That has unfurrowed the brow; I'm glad!
By John HOSE Snr, do you mean he is the father of John WD HOSE, Emma's husband? yes you do :)
So now it appears Malvina was technically the stepmother of JWD, and Ida was JWD's sister (step or half)?
Stanton!! Of course! Manton was really befuddling me :)
So it could be that Malvina was first married to a BLOTT?
Do you know anything about Henry EGAN, said to be Malvina's cousin on the 1851 Census?
Cheers
AMBLY
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no idea to who EGAN was and if John senior married Mavina BLOTT (yes to father of JWD HOSE) would there be any records in Guernsey?
Barry
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Looks like Edward Peake filed for divorce from Ida Malvina Peake in 1865. There's a file at the National Archives:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07w7/
Jacquie
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I now have Malvina Jane Sharpe Hose's death Cert it says
died 3/9/1882 28 Carlton Street Kentish Town widow of John Hose Lieutenant RN age 78 (not sure if this is correct). informant M A Durham present at death.
Now that seems more than concluive that the John Hose I have is the same John Hose as his Naval record shows he was a lieutenant however Johns record seems to cease in 1834 and the daughter is born 1846 (possibly St Peter port). I just would now like to find her marriage to John Hose.
it seems that Ida Malvina's 3 marriages were caused by her marrying Robert Charles Tucker in 1866 whilst still technically married as her divorce wasnt finalised by the time she married.
Barry
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The latest info I have is John HOSE was made a lieutenant in the Royal Navy in 1817 and seems to have been based in St Peter Port Guernsey and near Mostyn in Norfolk. The 3 children I am fairly certain as those of John Hose and Malvina Jane Sharpe (unknown) are
John William Danson Hose 1823 born unknown
Adelaide Malinna (or Malvina) 1829 born Norfolk
Stanton 1830 born Norfolk
John HOSE dies (we think) 2/6/1834 (I still await some papers from National Archives to prove this)
Was there a Naval base near Mostyn, Norfolk ?
Are there separate records for Naval marriages and babtisms as the Prieux Library on Guernsey cannot help?
Bazza
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confusing thread ;D http://search.labs.familysearch.org so here's more confusion
Ida Malvina Blott christened 22 Sep 1841 Holy Rhood, Southampton, Hampshire, England
James Blott & Malvina H...
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Thanks JJ that makes it clearer not more confusing.
Ida Malvina's mother is Malvinna Hose (nee unknown) and when her husband died in 1835 it looks like James Blott became her partner (there doesnt seem to be a marriage) so she has Ida baptised in Southampton (Navy father perhaps). In 1851 she is living in Guernsey and Ida is still a Blott.
Sometime after that Ida takes her mother's surname and marries under the name of Hose.
So thanks for the fathers name it has cleared up another mystery.
Barry
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update to last post
bishop's transcript for Holy Rood Southampton records office says mother's name is definitely Malvinna HOSE. it looks more likely that James BLOTT and Malvinna didn't get married. it also says fathers occupation was Gentleman. not very gentlemanly behaviour tho!!!
Barry
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Did you ever get this christening? http://www.familysearch.org Batch# I022374 or http://search.labs.familysearch.org
Malvina Adelaide Rose Christened July 20, 1828 Marston, Norfolk, England / John Rose & Malvina
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nope and thanks
can you see if brother Stanton is there as well I looked but couldnt even get adelaide to appear
Barry
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I checked both FHS sites and no others are listed as Rose or Hose, and under IGI batch # no Egan, Blott or Sharpe ;D
Do you have Stanton on any other census?
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Only the 1841 census for Guernsey. I have asked records office in Channel islands and they have no death or marriage. I have adelaide until she dies in 1874 and brother John william danson Hose until her dies in 1860. as to the EGAN being a cousin I have no further information.
Barry
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It is too bad that Malvina's birth St. John's / St. Johns was miss-interpreted on the two census as it is always nice to see place names, rather than generic "America" or "Canada", although the date is too early for our databases to find. The one 1841 census also indicates "ind." am wondering if this denotes "Indian" or native ancestry.
I suppose the father might have been military - British army in NFLD
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Units_of_the_British_Army_Serving_in_Newfoundland
But there were also cod fleets and stone merchants travelling between NFLD & Guernsey
I just realized Sharp may not be her last name? Was any clue on her death cert?
J.J.
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The ind meant of independent means as in she was recieving her husband John Hose's pension from the Royal Navy. I have a copy of the application from the National Archives.
Barry
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Sorry of course I should have known that... ::)
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Belatedly an update
Malvina (Malvener) Jane Sharp marries John Hose RN in 1823 (as John William Danson Hose is born same year I suspect there was a pressing need) in Grace Harbour, Newfoundland.
Still have no idea whether Malvina was born there or just lived there.
John Hose a Lieutenant in the RN had been commissioned to survey the Newfoundland coastline and used that as a base.
John died in debtor's prison in 1834 (Bodmin Gaol) Malvina remained in Jersey/ Guernsey with the children
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Not sure if you have all this...
John William Danson Hose Chr: 11 June 1824 Shaldon-St-Nicholas, Devon, England
father: John Malvina Hose occ. Lt. R.N. mother: Jane Sharp Hose abode Shaldon.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9Q5-Q8BW?i=118&cc=2515875&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQ2M3-7NDV
Malvina Adelaide (Rose) Christened July 20, 1828 Marston, Norfolk, England
Parents John Rose & Malvina his occ: Boatman...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939F-R6WL-4?i=182&cc=1823613&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A27CC-FDV
Stanton Lambert Fox Hose Baptism 1834 ( Said to be born Sept. 1831? or a bad/thin 3? )
John & Malvina Hose abode: Maurice Town Devon
Directly under him is another christening for Melvina Adelaide! ( Said to be born July 18, 1828
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Q7S9-WR?i=260&cc=1804330&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKC99-T2N
Stanton Hose c. 1834 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCQJ-7XD
— in 1853 Merchant Seaman — Great Britain & it appears he won an award as "Danton F Hose"
Different publications...but appears John may not have been given proper credit for 2 yrs surveying in NFLD!!! Really sad that he died in Debtor's prison.
Lt. John Hose -Mar. 1 1821- Snap- NFLD http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ot3/
H.M. brig Snap, under Lieutenant Hose, was in 1821 sent out for surveying service to the same part of the world ; on her arrival on the North American Station, Lieutenant Frederick Bullock appears to have succeeded to the command.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ot4/
Mr. Holbrook was relieved in command of HM Brig Snap by Lieutenant John Hose a month after commissioning her in 1821; Hose was probably the first to continue work over the ice in winter but his work was subsequently published under the name of Lt Frederick Bullock who relieved him in May 1823. https://books.google.ca/books?id=ZFQd6dLZlKQC&q=%22Hose+was+probably+the+first+to+continue+work%22
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Malvina (Malvener) married in 1823 Grace Harbour NFLD on the transcript it stated that John was from Eng and Malvina from St Johns. viewing the vitals from NFLD St Johns (bearing in mind a possible birthdate of 1804 there seems to be an issue as the register from 1803-1811 is missing. There is a possible death in 1820 for the wife of Richard Sharpe in childbirth. No other Sharpes are mentioned as far as I can see
http://ngb.chebucto.org/