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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: cariandcammy on Sunday 17 January 10 06:41 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I would greatly appreciate any information on Philip Launder Bligh, born about 1877 in Kent.
He married Ellen Wybrow Maude Gainsford on 29 Mar 1898 in Tonbridge, Kent.
They went on to have four sons; Reginald (my great grandfather), Jack, Eric and Percy.
Philip served in WW1 and he was a butcher.
I would be very keen to trace his family history further back. I cannot trace him on the census as I do not know his parents names.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance,
Cari
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Hi Cari :)
You say he married in 1898... so if you bought his marriage cert. it would give his father's name and occupation. This would help you trace him from childhood in the census.
The cert costsc 7GBP.
Go to freebmd site and search there forhis marriage- you'll then have the reference number that will enable you to buy the cert. This can be done online.
Another way to get the names of both parents would be to buy Philip's birth cert. Search for the number the same way on freebmd. YOu may find more than one Philip Bligh born about 1877. Give that a go and see what tyou find.
Let us knoww what results you get and maybe we can suggest how to move on from that.
charlotte :)
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Hi Charlotte
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I already have his marriage certificate and there is no name for his father. I am therefore assuming that he was illegitimate. I think my next port of call will indeed have to be buying his birth certificate. Just thought I'd try here first to see if anyone had any other suggestions!
Cari :)
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If he married in 1898 he'd be identifiable of 1901 and 1911 census and this would give you his place of birth.
From that maybe as you know his mother's name you can work back thru earlier census and see what household have both him and her in them- then if a father's name turns up as head of household... bingo. From the place name for his birth you should be able to sort out if you're looking at the correct census image.
When the father's name doesn't appear we tend to conclude- usually correctly- that the person is illegitimate.
It's all detective work really ;D
charlotte
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I should have said, he does not appear on the 1901 census, although his wife Ellen and son Reginald do. I found them on 1911 as a family. According to this census he was born in Ashford, Kent, but I don't even know his mother's name and no Philip Bligh's appear on the census for Kent (I've tried various spellings).
I enjoy a bit of detective work, that's what makes family research so interesting, but I've been at a dead end with Philip now for ages! Will have to give in and pay the £7! I was so sure with him having an unusual middle name, he'd be relatively easy to find! ::)
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His unusual middle name name may be a clue as to his father's surname. ???
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I had that thought too! But I haven't got anywhere with it! :( :(
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Hi all :)
I had a look at Philip's Army Papers and strangely, there are papers for Philip and Percy La(u)nder Bligh mixed up in the same file*. I'm starting to wonder whether he's the same boy, after finding this:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=8147388
RG11/908 50 13
(*added: Or was it in Percy's papers that I found Philip's name? :P)
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Hey!
What a find!
I had noticed in his army papers that there was some reference to Percy and assumed this was a nickname for Philip, but hadn't actually thought to look it up!
This census record certainly looks promising!
Thank you! ;D
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Do you think I should still try to obtain his birth certificate? ??? From the census I can't work out if he is the son of Henry J Bligh or the adopted son of Henry's mother, Rebecca?
Which name should I request Percy or Philip Launder?
Also, can anyone find him on 1901 census? By now is he Bligh as he married as Philip Launder Bligh in 1898 but I still can't find him! But you guys are experts! ;)
Many thanks! ;D
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Hello again!
Have just got out his marriage certificate again to have another look and at the time of his marriage he was not yet a butcher.
He was a Passenger Porter S.E.R. Does this mean he worked on a ship?! :-[
Thanks again for all your help!
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Might SER be South Eastern Railway- if there ever was such a thing? ???
charlotte
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Well done Charlotte!
There is still a south eastern railway serving the Kent area! Do you think it was possible that he was on a train the night of the 1901 census and that's why he's not recorded??? But then I thought everyone had to be?? ???
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It was a total guess ;D ;D
The question as to whether that is the explanation for you not being able to find him in 1901 perhaps shpould be asked on the Census Board where the pundits are. ???
charlotte
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Have tried to find his birth record so I can order his birth certificate. The only one is Philip Launder in Devon in 1877. But if i order it will I be any the wiser? Isn't Devon quite far from Kent?
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Both are in the south of England- Kent is in the east and Devon is in the west. Nothing in England seems very far from anything else if you're an Aussie. ;D Don't know the actual distances- an atlas would tell that.
Why not browse for births of that name a couple of years on either side of 1877? Quite often dates can be passed down in families incorrectly.
charlotte
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In 1871 Rebecca BLYTH has a nurse child called Charles.
Perhaps she took in waifs and strays. :-\
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What about Percy LAUDER birth registration 1878 West Ashford registration district (the correct district for Ashford) http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
Both are in the south of England- Kent is in the east and Devon is in the west. Nothing in England seems very far from anything else if you're an Aussie
It is if you're in England - if somebody says born Ashford, Kent then I wouldn't suggest anything out of county at least ;D
Could he have been serving in the army at the time of the 1901 census (Boer War) even? If not, it is possible that he was at work or elsewhere and missed being recorded.
Casalguidi :)
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1881
London Road, Sevenoaks
Rebecca BLIGH, head wid 68, born Kent, Brasted
Henry J BLIGH, son unm 34, Gardener, born Kent, Riverhead
Percy LAUNDER, adopted child 3, born Kent, Ashford
RG11/908/50/13
1891
London Road, Sevenoaks
Rebecca BLIGH, head wid 78, birthplace NK
Henry BLIGH, son s 44, Assistant gardener, born Kent, Riverhead
Percy LAUDER, adopted child 13, Scholar, born Kent, Ashford
RG12/673/146/7
Ian C
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Well done Ian ;D
Maybe you have solved the Philip and Percy mystery name mystery with that word"adopted".
charlotte
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Thanks everyone for all your posts, you've been very helpful!
I now believe he was born Percy Lauder in West Ashford, 1878 and was brought up by Rebecca Bligh for some reason or another. I wonder if her son Henry was his father?? It does state this on the 1881 census. So, still don't know whether to get his birth certificate or not. If Henry was the father then fine, but if not, then I would still not know if I had the right person or not.
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Would there be any way of finding out if he served during the Boer War?
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I wonder if her son Henry was his father?? It does state this on the 1881 census.
On the image, it merely says that he's Rebecca Bligh's adopted son. For some reason ancestry conclude that he belonged to John but I'm not sure it's likely at all - he'd probably be shown as her grandchild otherwise.
If he was mine, I'd definitely get his birth cert to find out who his parents were (or his mother at least - possibly either Frances Lander or Catherine Lauder who get married in West Ashford district in 1880/1881?).
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Hello again Everyone!
I know it has been sometime since I posted regarding my great great grandfather Philip Launder Bligh (born as Percy Lauder).
I have finally got around to getting his birth certificate and am looking for your help again.
So, he was born Percy Lauder on 27th Decemeber 1877 at 44 New Town, Ashford.
He was the illegitimate son of Catherine Lauder, a dressmaker, residing at the above address.
I am now very keen to find out more about Catherine and why Percy/Philip was adopted/taken in by Rebecca Bligh in Tonbridge, Kent.
I have found two Catherine Lauders born in the late 1850s in West Ashford through Ancestry records.
I am going on a hunch but I believe she is the Catherine born in the last quarter of 1858 to George Lauder and Elizabeth Austen. My hunch for this is that they lived at 97 New Street and Percy was born at 44 New Town?? I am guessing that these streets are close by, if New Town was a street. I also thought New Town might be a name for the workhouse perhaps?
I would like to find a way to connect this Catherine (if she is the right one) to Percy. Can anyone suggest how I might do this?
Many thanks in advance!
Cari :-)
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Hi Cari
As Tati mentioned earlier in the thread, a Catherine Lauder married in West Ashford in Mar qtr 1881. This may well be worth investigating, as sometimes the reason for an adoption was that the natural mother was marrying and her new husband didn't want to take on a child who was not his.
Catherine seems to have married Arthur William Larkin. In the 1881 census, as newlyweds, they are in Ramsgate as follows:
1881 census: RG11/988/98/28
11 York St, Ramsgate
Arthur W LARKIN Head Mar 22 House decorator (master) Kent, Chislet
Catharine do Wife Mar 22 House decorator's wife Kent, Ashford
It doesn't look as though they went on to have children within the marriage.
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The "other" Catherine Lauder, born Sep qtr 1856 to James & Frances, seems to have married Alfred Maple (Mar qtr 1879 Wandsworth). They're in Wandsworth in 1881: RG11/632/52/40.
Hmmm... as Kate Lauder of 44 New Town (still with parents) she's an apprentice dressmaker in Ashford in 1871! RG10/958/75/9.
Think you've got your girl ;)
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Thank you so much! Can't believe I missed that! :o
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"Newtown" was built on the then outskirts of Ashford to house railway workers after the arrival of the railway there so it's quite likely her father worked in the railway works.
Casalguidi :)