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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BILL.Y on Wednesday 13 January 10 19:35 GMT (UK)
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I'd be grateful for any info on Ernest John Oliver. Died 26/10/1918 He was age 39 so was born in 1879 +/- 1yr
Married to Elizabeth Oliver.
His father may have been called Ernest John as his eldest: son, grandson, gt grandson and gt gt grandson are all called Ernest John. (or maybe not?!)
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Hi
You should be able to find him on the 1881 census which is free to search at
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
His marriage is on freebmd in 1907 to Elizabeth Bignold
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
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Hello Bill,
Most likely wrong information now (see below)
Wonder if this is him?
1891 RG12; Piece: 1792; Folio 52; Page 37
Chapel Street Holsworthy
Thomas Oliver 41yrs Relieving Officer and registrar of Births and Deaths b Ashwater
Charity Oliver 36 yrs b Healwill
Seth Harry 11 yrs
Thomas 7yrs
Ernest John 6 yrs
Frederick W 4 yrs
Francis James 1 yrs
Cecil 6 months
Caroline Buckler 47 yrs general servant domestic b Cornwall St Giles on Hesketh
children all born Holsworthy
will look further
heywood
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The free 1911 index has an entry for an Ernest Oliver aged 33 living in Plymouth. In same Household is an Elizabeth Oliver b 1875 - and possibly a 6mth old Phylliss Oliver
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Hi
You've posted this on the Devon board, but according to his CWGC entry he was a native of Cheltenham:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=504502
Perhaps worth a look in Gloucs?
Anna
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I was worried about the age difference and there are a couple of Ernest Olivers in Devon around same age but he is the only Ernest John.
I can see the same one as Ernest J Oliver in 1901 but will wait until we have more information.
best wishes
heywood
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Births September qtr 1878
Ernest John S Oliver Cheltenham 6a 438
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Well done Carole- that sounds better :D
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I have just used Cheltenham as the birthplace on that 1911 entry I showed above and it is the same person
Now that Billy has that info - he should be able to find him in 1881 and also on the 1911
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Possible marriage:
Marriage Mar qtr 1895
NASH Elizabeth Jane
OLIVER Ernest John
on same page, Shoreditch 1c 167
Ignore this marriage - I have established that this is a different couple (this Ernest was b abt 1870 Ashford, Kent).
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The 1895 marriage is the correct one so they should be on the 1901 census
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Wow! You guys are QUICK! Thanks for all the help.
I don't seem to be able to get to the info even when you've supplied the links. I found an EJ Oliver listed in Carole's FBMD link but he was listed as Tynemouth - then I found him in Plymouth - I've no idea how?! Doh!
Anyway, back to the story. I think the EJ Oliver is the one born in Cheltenham. The War Graves Commission shows him living in Plymouth but his wife came from Cheltenham. Also he is on the Royal Engineers 'Cheltonian' Roll of Honour so he either joined there or was based there. And this explains how he married someone from Cheltenham.
Actually, looking at the CWGC certificate again I suppose it makes more sense to read it that HE was a native of Cheltenham, not his wife, although it's a little ambiguous.
If this is right his father is listed as John Jnr. Oliver [was Junior a name in those days?]. John Jnr was born in Silverton which is about 8 miles N of Exeter so that may help explain how they ended up in Plymouth?
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The family's 1901 census entry at RG13/2462/92/10 (family in Cheltenham) shows that Ernest was born Cheltenham and his wife was born in Plymouth.
Shout if you don't have access.
Anna :)
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Thanks Anna,
I don't have access or, if I do, I don't know how to find it. Can you point me in the right direction? I've tried looking on the 'official' 1911 census site but no EJ Olivers appear.
Mind you nobody told me this sort of stuff was easy. OK, OK, you guys make it look easy but you must have done the course! ;)
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I don't have access or, if I do, I don't know how to find it. Can you point me in the right direction? I've tried looking on the 'official' 1911 census site but no EJ Olivers appear.
Sometimes this happens if you narrow the search terms too far. Not everybody stated their middle name/initial on the 1911 census. Try looking for Ernest Oliver b Cheltenham and see if that helps.
Anna :)
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1901 census: RG13/2462/92/10
27 Columbia St, Cheltenham
Ernest Jno. OLIVER Head M 23 Labourer, Corporation Gloucestersh. Cheltenham
Elizabeth do Wife M 25 Devonshire Plymouth
Florance May do Daur 3 Devonshire Plymouth
Vera Kathn. do Daur 3mo Gloucestersh. Cheltenham
Martha GARRISON Boarder S 60 Gloucestersh. Winchcombe
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Birth:
Mar qtr 1901
Vera Kathleen OLIVER Cheltenham 6a 429
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Florance May do Daur 3 Devonshire Plymouth
Birth Jun qtr 1898
BIGNOLD Florence May
Plymouth 5b 264
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Hi
I'm not 100% convinced about all the info we have given in view of what you said in your pm - big family etc
Can I ask what your connection is to Ernest? Are you descended from one of his children?
If so - I think we need to work backwards from that info and check again
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Hi Carole,
looking over the information, I think it may be the right one re the continuing of the name. There is an Ernest b 1916 - parents Bignold and Oliver so that would tie in with this.
heywood
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Hi
In his pm to me - according to a family story, Bill's father in law was the only boy from 13 children.
Ernest born 1916 was the father in law but we have only accounted for 4 siblings. However, as Bill says - it's possible others died in between time
Whilst the 1895 marriage fits in with the 1911 entry re: years married, it does not fit with daughter Florence being registered as Bignold in 1898. The 1907 marriage fits that surname
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I amended my post above re the 1895 marriage late yesterday. The 1895 marriage, which I have followed up, is definitely not the right couple.
The 1907 marriage seems to the the one, although apparently they lived as though married for many years before actually tying the knot.
Anna :)
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In his pm to me - according to a family story, Bill's father in law was the only boy from 13 children.
Ernest born 1916 was the father in law but we have only accounted for 4 siblings. However, as Bill says - it's possible others died in between time
Apparently there were six children pre-1911 (of which two deaths), but Ernest jr seems to be the only one in the period when mmn is indexed. But we don't know what happened to the family after Ernest snr's death in 1918 - if Elizabeth remarried, young Ernest may have acquired half-sisters or step-sisters.
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Hi All,
Thanks again for all the effort you are putting into this. Humble is not how I would usually be described ::) but it certainly fits at the moment! :)
The oral tradition in the family is that Ernest was the youngest child. And he was the only son. I'm pretty sure Elizabeth didn't remarry.
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So far we seem to have:
1901 census: RG13/2462/92/10
27 Columbia St, Cheltenham
Ernest Jno. OLIVER Head M 23 Labourer, Corporation Gloucestersh. Cheltenham
Elizabeth do Wife M 25 Devonshire Plymouth (nee Bignold)
Florance May do Daur 3 Devonshire Plymouth (nee Bignold)
Vera Kathn. do Daur 3mo Gloucestersh. Cheltenham
And in 1911
EJO 33
EO 36
Kate 10 b.Cheltenham
Louisa 5 b. Cheltenham
So it looks like Ernest (or someone else) and Elizabeth had Florence out of wedlock. Elizabeth moved to Cheltn. having married and had Vera.
By 1911 both Florence and Vera seem to have died.
But Kate and Louisa had been born.
My wife also remembers an Aunty Hilda (and I've met Aunty Pat!) so they and Ernest were born between 1911 and 1916
Not upto 13 yet - but the numbers are rising! :)
Certainly there are gaps between Kate and Louisa, and between 1911-16. Twins run in the family so 13 is not an impossible number to contemplate.
Fascinating stuff! Well, for me anyway! 8)
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I think Vera Kathleen (3 months old in 1901) is the same child as Kate - presumably short for Kathleen - who was aged 10 in 1911.
I wouldn't assume that Florence had died by 1911 - I can't see an intervening death for her, either as OLIVER or as BIGNOLD - and there were supposedly four surviving children at that date, of whom only two were at home. That leaves two children currently unaccounted for but alive somewhere as at 1911.
One of them I think might be Martha Elizabeth OLIVER, b Mar qtr 1903 Cheltenham.
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Having tried and failed to find any evidence of Elizabeth BIGNOLD before her 1901 census enumeration, I now think she was previously married (meaning young Ernest's birth registration was mistaken in citing BIGNOLD as her maiden name).
Marriage, Dec qtr 1893
Thomas Samuel BIGNOLD
Elizabeth MUSSELL
Plymouth 5b 574
This leads us to a possible birth for "Aunty Hilda" using Elizabeth's correct maiden name:
Birth, Dec qtr 1912
Hilda M. OLIVER mmn MUSSELL
Plymouth 5b 374
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Possible birth for Elizabeth (meaning, if correct, that she dropped a few years in later censuses, perhaps because Ernest was a younger man!):
Birth, Dec qtr 1873
Elizabeth MUSSELL
Plymouth 5b 245
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Hmmm... a Thomas Samuel BIGNOLD, seaman, 29 and claiming to be a bachelor, married a widow, Martha Phoebe DADD, in Bermondsey in 1898. Could he in fact have been Elizabeth's estranged husband...?
Possible death for him: Thomas S BIGNOLD aged 67, Dec qtr 1937 Bromley 2a 906.
The National Archives' J77 series has no record of a BIGNOLD divorce file.