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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Borley Manor on Wednesday 13 January 10 16:02 GMT (UK)
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Unfortunately, my mother does not know much about her history, she originally gave me her mothers maiden name incorrectly, however, that being resolved, she mentioned seeing a picture on her mothers wall when she was very young. The picture showed a young chap in naval attire, and when prompted by my mother as to who it was, she was told that it was my grandmothers brother William who drowned at sea. I know no more than that.
I searched out the WW1 death index and found a William John Stainer of the Royal Engineers. ranked as a sapper, Number 508484. He sadly died in 1917 Vol E2 Page 42. The name fits exactly, but...
It seems inconceivable that a member of the R.E. would be dressed in naval garb for a picture, but, another further record reveals a William G. Stainer being in the Royal Navy as a paymaster, but dying in the explosion that destroyed the H.M.S. Bulwark, November 1914 on the River Medway.
If either record relates to my grandmothers brother, where do I go now to confirm, or, if it is a civilian drowning, out of wartime, where would that record be found ????
Sorry it is a bit garbled, but there isn't an easier way to explain it all :-[
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Hi,
According to the details on the CWGC site:
WG Stainer was 33 and the son of William and AE Stainer of 22 Twyford Ave, West Acton, London.
Do those details match for your grandmother's parents?
Nanny Jan
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Swipe me, that was deuced pronto, amazingly so..
Sad to say, it doesn't fit at all, but, the elimination process is bitter sweet really, in light of the tragedy that took place. Apparently, the second largest manmade explosion at the time.
Thank you for your endevours though, it is much appreciated. I did try the CWGC site, and it froze up my computer..probably me though, if the truth ever gets out.. :-[
Thanks again.
reg
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Searching the web for data and I find the William John Stainer I am looking for, came from Shaftesbury, Dorset, and was born 1880..
reg
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That's funny I was just about to ask exactly that ;D
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I seem able to emit confusion any time I like these days ::)
So many headings, so many bits of paper, so many must do's, I forget my name most of the time, but, great minds think alike it would seem..
reg
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There's a William G Stainer on 1911 census as being in the Navy aboard the "Victoria & Albert" serving as an assistant paymaster, born 1882 at Kent Gillingham, aged 29 & single
looked through 1913 - 1917 death records & only match that seems slightly close is a William Stainer aged 31 in the district of Hendon Jan-Mar 1913, 3a, 427
James
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7400126&queryType=1&resultcount=5
Theres this lad?? names marry up RN Service record.?...But id go with the post below which ive just modified ;)
Ady
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http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1913subs.htm
What about this lad Richard WG Stainer lost at sea 1909 in Submarine C11 ??
Richard William George Stainer.may have been known as William??
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6991685&queryType=1&resultcount=30
Ady
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Searching the web for data and I find the William John Stainer I am looking for, came from Shaftesbury, Dorset, and was born 1880..
reg
But Reg is looking for William John Stainer b Dorset 1880 so why are people mentioning other names?
Carol (also confused now ;))
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RWG Stainer came from Shaftesbury in Dorset...basically William in his name same surname etc and he drowned explore all avenues as military and family records get mixed up over the years theres a lot of coincidences here :)
Ady
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The sapper William John that died in 1917 of wounds lived in Dorchester and enlisted in Warwickshire if that helps?
Ady
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LOL!, the name thing, I've been lead on a merry chase on some family, either they change the name or errors etc, all part of the fun in searching :)
James
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http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1913subs.htm
What about this lad Richard WG Stainer lost at sea 1909 in Submarine C11 ??
Richard William George Stainer.may have been known as William??
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6991685&queryType=1&resultcount=30
Ady
This is very intriguing, I only have a time worn reference to a William drowning at sea, I worked out my grandmothers maiden name to the Stainer family by referencing her childrens birth certificates which give maiden name as Stainer and not Staines as my mother wrongly would have it, but, there are loads around those parts. Searching for confirmation of which branch of the Stainer's family she belonged to is fraught with perils. I have since found out, again, word of mouth, that my grandfather married the best looking of five sisters, this makes it even more difficult as the census returns list loads, but, none include my grandmother. I just have a birth ref for Alice Maude Stainer, 5a226, page 504 jul-sept 1884. She was born on 29.7.84. I hope.
So maybe the William John Stainer is a red herring, it gets you down after a while. I have 63 Stainer's all within a certain time period, all around Shaftesbury/Dorchester/Weymouth/Salisbury etc, but none of them are a Richard W G Stainer, but it fits so well....
Do I keep buying copies of birth cert's until I light on the right one, I am already £14 down incorrectly....lol
Will anybody buy the Big Issue, as I need the money to pursue this...lol
reg
Oh and thankyou all the people who are helping, it's appreciated.
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Do you have your gran's birth or marriage record to know her dad's name or his job?
Have you found the family in each of the censuses?
Would you like some help to do so...........it'd be cheaper than keep buying the wrong certs 8)
Carol
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There are 2 Alice Maud Stainers .... (typical) on FreeBMD, one born 1884 and one 1889 in Dorset
The OTHER one (1889) is on 1891 census with parents Frederick and Angelina
But I cant see your one!
so I am probably just adding to the confusion!
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Buy Richard WGs Service record...it may have other family details on it
£3.50 as opposed to £7 GRO Cert....Interesting too ;D
Ady
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Okay...update time.
I have been on this all day now and most of the last two days, the Frederick/Angelina tie up is the wrong one, I actually have this cert' from only last week.
This then, becomes incredibly mind numbing from this point on.
The, hopefully, real grandmother is the 1884 birth at Shaftesbury. It has to be the one, as her name is spelt with a E in Maude, the other one isn't, the E stands for Ethel in that one....
The original enquiry was about a William John Stainer, I thought I was right about him, but, again, I was wrong :-[ In fact, the help on here has sent me on a Richard William George Stainer tack instead.
If, and do hope if, the Richard William George Stainer is the one that drowned in the submarine C11 is my grandmothers brother, then a whole raft of other Stainers show up on the census reports. I have copied these all down and can track related folk back to the 1841 census, it then fragments awfully...
The drowned Richard (isn't it awful how I talk about the poor chap), also has a father Richard, who's father was a Charles and down to about 1851, when there are about five Charles Stainer's, all born around Shaftesbury.
It has taken forever to translate the spelling on a lot of documents, but it does look positive for once...makes a pleasant change.
I choose to write stuff in longhand with a fountain pen and have dried up an ink cartridge on this family alone in three days. I have to confirm all the above before transferring to p.c., I am going on holiday, I think, instead...
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Borley,
To save yourself money- and time.You really need to start with what you DO know-you ,your parents and grandparents names DOB's marriages etc and work backwards through the censuses.
If you tell us what you do have that is fact and not just family hearsay,then we'll help you prove who your ancestors were.
Rootschat doesn't allow names of anyone still alive on the boards,so please remember that when typing anything out.
Regards
Carol
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http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1913subs.htm
What about this lad Richard WG Stainer lost at sea 1909 in Submarine C11 ??
Richard William George Stainer.may have been known as William??
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6991685&queryType=1&resultcount=30
Ady
This could almost be proof that this is the guy, on earlier census returns asking after a Richard William George Stainer, they are using the middle name of William, plus, the use of my grandmothers (hopefully) middle name of Maude as her first name and so on. it is a strange habit in those days, I found this a lot in my paternal tree as well..
I will send off for this cert' you mention, as there may well be some confirmation of folk history.
I found a photograph, taken just a couple of days before the submarine perished, with a number of crew, posing quite clearly visible. If the chap ison it, then which one, will my mother remember the picture, how weird is this getting now..???
Thank you all again, what a trip this is turning out to be..
reg
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Borley,
To save yourself money- and time.You really need to start with what you DO know-you ,your parents and grandparents names DOB's marriages etc and work backwards through the censuses.
If you tell us what you do have that is fact and not just family hearsay,then we'll help you prove who your ancestors were.
Rootschat doesn't allow names of anyone still alive on the boards,so please remember that when typing anything out.
Regards
Carol
I wish I could prove anything first hand, all I had is my grandmothers maiden name, that was wrong, the place of her birth, that was wrong as well, the year of her birth, that was wrong and so on, I have proved her marriage though, but the record is not extant for some reason, so no copy available as yet, it's akin to being in a square, high walled room with no openings,,, very long suffering pastime indeed...
I take note of your comments,
reg
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As you look at it bottom right hand man has a X in white and also X in dark close by think this could be your man.....If(when :)) you purchase and download the record if you need any help decyphering the Naval language/terminology im sure youl get help on here
Ady
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What gives you the idea that the crossed man is the one, did you put the crosses on there, are you my relative ??? :o
reg
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Hi Reg...more confusion! i thought it was your photo youd found at home but now i see its available on the net!!
Ignore my comment :)
Ady
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sailor second row in the middle looks like he wants to rip someones head off :)
I've looked through a few more records but not found anything enlightening yet
James
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I must echo Carol's words in an earlier post.
You really do need to work back logically from what you know for sure, confirming each step as you go.
You say you are pretty sure that your grandmothers maiden name was Stainer, from the birth index entries for her children.
Have you actually got any of these certs to confirm their mums name was Alice Maud Stainer? Or is that just an 'assumption' (Dont take any notice of whether it is spelt with an 'e' or not)
If not, getting your mother/father's birth cert would if my humble opinion be £7 well worth spending.
I did find 2 births for Alice Maud Stainers, and so IF that is the right Christian name and the right era, one MIGHT be your grandmother.
You say you have ruled out the 1899 one with parents Fred and Angelina - how have you ruled it out if you know absolutely nothing about the Stainer family?
I cant see the other one on a census to check on what brothers she had.
So, in order to prevent yourself either going mad with frustration or else settling for something that seems possible but might be absolutely nothing to do with your family at all, you are going to need to spend some money.
Looks like £3-50 for the Richard's war record, and £7 for mums birth cert will be good starters.
It may mean value beans on toast for dinner, or no Starbucks coffee for a while, but if you are serious about tracing finding out the truth about this great uncle of yours, I fear it is the only way.
LizDB
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WG Stainer was 33 and the son of William and AE Stainer of 22 Twyford Ave, West Acton, London.
Do those details match for your grandmother's parents?
...to which you answered 'no'
....but I didnt think you knew who grandmother's parents were? So how do you know it doesnt match?
If you DO know who they were, then please tell us as it will help greatly!
But I dont see from the posts here that you can know, there was i thought even doubt about the next geenration, probably Alice Maud ..... and only when that is confirmed can you get the right birth cert and find the parents of hopefully both her and of her mssing brother.
But if I am wrong and more is known (FOR SURE, not assumption on based on possible index entries only) please please put what info is known here!
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Hi, firstly, thank you all for your very helpful comments, it is appreciated a great deal.
The requested info as I have it...
My mother shares the same name as my grandmother i.e. Alice Maude, with an E, she is most adamant about the E. My mother had two brothers and one sister, making for reference points on the BMD records. Where applicable, the mothers maiden name is on the records as Stainer. I have assumed this to be correct. Although my mother told me Staines, this is written, not very well, on the back of an early photo, it is easily misconstrued as being either, but the record evidence negates Staines. The lack of name proof is evidenced by the extant uncle and my mother, neither knowing her maiden name, just hearsay, they are both very old as well.
When I found this out, I began trawling through the BMD's for a Alice Maude Staines, and only found the one in 1889. Despite the rather feeble information from my mother, I assumed this to be the one. I sent off for the cert copy and the dates are incorrect, as my grandmother, now I find out from my mother, was born in July and not in April as the copy shows...
I remained undaunted at this point, but a little tired...
It was during a telephone conversation with my mother about all the above, when I asked if she remembered anything else, and the William memory came up, she asked who was in the picture, and was told her (grandmothers) brother who drowned at sea. I then posted on here for a William John Stainer, as this name was the only William Stainer I could find on the BMD's, the rest is in earlier posts...
After the trace of a Richard William George Stainer drowning on the C11 submarine by mmm45, I put that name into the BMD's and came up trumps it would seem. On the 1891 census, I found the Stainer family, from Shaftesbury as indicated, there is a Maud Stainer, plus a William Stainer and others, but not utilizing any of their first names i.e. Alice and Richard et al. I got greedy and perused the entire history in the census returns and found seemingly thousands of Stainers, all born in and around Shaftesbury.
In the 1871 census, it shows a Frederick Stainer being 5 years of age, he is also of the same family, and a brother to the Richard who drowned. I think, and supported by a gut feeling, that he is the father of the incorrectly purchased birth certificate of the other Alice Maud Ethel Stainer in 1889, as evidenced on the cert copy.
By comparing names and offspring names in the census returns, a pretty convincing picture emerges. I know I need to prove all this, and I am buying the copy cert's as soon as possible now, it's a shame that it's so expensive, but, thats life and death....
Reading this back, it sounds such a tentative story, I do hope it makes sense, but, my paternal family tree is even worse, it is almost like I was the generation that learnt to talk first to each other.... ::)
Thanks again to you all..
reg
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sailor second row in the middle looks like he wants to rip someones head off :)
I've looked through a few more records but not found anything enlightening yet
James
The young chap just above the strangler in the middle, looks so much like my mother when she is young in her photo's, it is strangely eerie, maybe, just maybe..
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When and where did your grandma die?
Did you ever meet her,to narrow the date down.
Did she always stay around Shaftesbury?
What was your grandad's name,when did he die?
Just so we can get a handle on some facts here ;D
And then Liz and I will be raring to go 8)
Carol
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Hi, this is so good and indulgent of you all, I can only thank you all again...
Grandfather: Harry Musgrave Harker
b) Armathwaite Cumberland 18.3.1880. registered Penrith, Cumberland.
Ref 10b 460 Page 240 april/june quarter, obviously registered later than birth.
I have traced his history back to the late 1700's.
Grandmother (fingers crossed, but pretty sure) : Alice Maude Stainer
b) Shaftesbury (environs) Dorset. 29.7.1884.
Ref 5a 226 Page 504 Jul/Sept quarter.
Marriage (both): Ref 5a 417 Page 193 Jul/Sept quarter 1914 at Salisbury.
Both died at Ipswich Suffolk 1968, I think she died July and he followed in September, but I cannot yet be sure, I need to prove it..weekdays in Ipswich are very rare for me to do, also daytime telephoning is difficult..
Is this any help, I don't know what is useful to experts, all I have is now on this thread I think ???
reg
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Right then have just PM'd you exactly that,as I presume your mum is still alive and I didn't want t post her info on the boards
Carol
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Alice M Harker died Ipswich in the Sept 1/4 of 1968 aged 83
Harry M Harker also died Ipswich in the Sept 1/4 of 1968 age 88
Carol
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hi Reg, going back to the picture & possible family resemblance, a few years ago I met a cousin of my wifes & was astounded how much he looked like her family, so your hunch on the sailor in question might not be so far fetched
James
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On the 1891 census, I found the Stainer family, from Shaftesbury as indicated, there is a Maud Stainer, plus a William Stainer and others, but not utilizing any of their first names i.e. Alice and Richard et al.
Hi Reg
Could you tell us the reference details for this census entry as I can't find it on Ancestry. I hadn't found Alice Maude on either the 1891 or 1901 census and had wondered whether her mother had perhaps remarried and whether William was a step brother and not a Stainer.
A copy of the marriage certificate would give you the father of Alice Maude and then a copy of the 1884 birth certificate would confirm this and give you her mothers maiden name.
Curiously there is also a registration for a Bessie Blanche STAINER with the same registration details as Alice Maude. This could be two Stainer families registering their daughters close enough together to be on the same page, or that Alice & Bessie were twins. I have found Bessie in both the 1891 and 1901 censuses and in neither case is she with family.
Andy
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Hi Reg
I've found the 1891 census you were referring to also the 1881 and 1901 censuses.
1881 census RG11 Piece 2076 Folio 64 Page 1, Shaftesbury Rd, Donhead St Mary
Richard STAINER 28
Sarah 29
John 5
Edith 3
Harriet 9 mths
1891 Census RG12 Piece 1627 Folio 19 Page 11 East Knoyle
Richard J STAINER 37 ( STAINES on Ancestry)
Sarah 38
John 15
Aida 14 (Edith?)
Rose 12 (Harriet Rosina?)
Ellen 9 (Sarah Ellen?)
Maud 7 (Alice Maude?)
William 4 (Richard William G?)
Beatrice 18mths (Beatrice Annie?)
1901 census RG13 Piece 1960 Folio 51 Page 7 Donhead St Mary
Richard J STAINER 47
Sarah 48
Rose 21
William 13
Beatrice 11
Winifred 6 (Winifred Daisy?)
Lily 3 (Lily Ada E?)
Richard William G STAINER birth registered Dec Qtr 1887 Mere Reg District which includes East Knoyle which is the birthplace of William STAINER in the 1891 census so it does look like Richard William G is the brother of Alice Maude
Andy
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Your next move as Andy says has to be to get your grandparents marriage cert,it should name Alice's dad and then you can go backwards with confidence.
I couldn't see anyone in 1901 that I liked the look of ;D
But did see a large Stainer family with 6 year old Alice in Rockbourne(near Salisbury)parents are George and Emma.
I won't type it up here to avoid confusion.
Carol
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But did see a large Stainer family with 6 year old Alice in Rockbourne(near Salisbury)parents are George and Emma.
Hi
I think this would be Alice Lillie STAINER birth reg Fordingbridge, Dec Qtr 1884. Rockbourne is in the Fordingbridge Reg District.
Andy
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On the 1891 census, I found the Stainer family, from Shaftesbury as indicated, there is a Maud Stainer, plus a William Stainer and others, but not utilizing any of their first names i.e. Alice and Richard et al.
Hi Reg
Could you tell us the reference details for this census entry as I can't find it on Ancestry. I hadn't found Alice Maude on either the 1891 or 1901 census and had wondered whether her mother had perhaps remarried and whether William was a step brother and not a Stainer.
A copy of the marriage certificate would give you the father of Alice Maude and then a copy of the 1884 birth certificate would confirm this and give you her mothers maiden name.
Curiously there is also a registration for a Bessie Blanche STAINER with the same registration details as Alice Maude. This could be two Stainer families registering their daughters close enough together to be on the same page, or that Alice & Bessie were twins. I have found Bessie in both the 1891 and 1901 censuses and in neither case is she with family.
Andy
I expect you are now sure of my novice status in tree building, I did, maybe a foolish thing when I began this Stainer research, and that is, eliminating all the Stainers in the birth index from Shaftesbury and it's neighbourhood. I wrote them all down longhand and then tried to work it all out. Amazingly, I find several coincidences of possible twins, and one of a possible triplet birth, and yes, Bessie and Alice, they are registered on the same day as you have found, and so are all these other ones. Maybe they are just registrations from different birth dates though, registered on the same day, who knows without lashing out millions of shekels, this may have to wait a bit though for that to happen..
I have ordered the birth cert copy to prove once and for all that these are the Stainers.
I have also ordered the Naval record for the drowned chap Richard to add a bit of weight to the situation, plus, it is an interesting story that needs more knowledge known. I am trying again for the marriage cert copy that seems to be missing from the files maybe....I did try before and they returned my money as it were, strange and a little sad..
Thanks again for your sterling efforts everyone.
reg
Is all this par for the course in tree building, or is mine different somehow ???
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Hello Reg,
It's quite normal.
Families are never as tidy as they would make out. ;D
Phil
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Hello Forester,
Just telling me that this is normal for tree building does my ego so much good, thanks, I thought I was miles wrong on everything. Incidently though, your avatar of the horse and owner is so much like an old postcard, probably well known, of a dying horse and soldier in the field WW1, I believe it had a comment like "Goodbye Old Chum" or something akin, given to my mother by my grandad years ago, maybe because she liked it, I have it now, stashed away in the attic amongst my souveniers..
reg
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But did see a large Stainer family with 6 year old Alice in Rockbourne(near Salisbury)parents are George and Emma.
Hi
I think this would be Alice Lillie STAINER birth reg Fordingbridge, Dec Qtr 1884. Rockbourne is in the Fordingbridge Reg District.
Andy
I came across these Stainers when I did my elimination tactic, I must get a better atlas, most of the place names are not on mine. To be brutally honest, I suspect a great number of these Stainers are actually related somwhere along the way....time will tell maybe, who's going to be a busy bee this year...thanks again
reg
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http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29819/supplements/10934
Reg
Heres Harrys MSM Gazzetted in London Gazette for 1916.
Rest of stuff in email.
http://www.ams-museum.org.uk/research.htm
You should get some info on AVC here. :)
From the British Medal Forum doubtful if citation is available and you should check archives from AVC for a unit war diary 5th AVC Hospital?
Ady :)
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Hi Borley
Did you get those certs yet?
Have you been able to prove or disprove anything.
We love to hear the results of our endeavours here on Rootschat......don't keep us in suspense ;D
Carol
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Hi Carol,
An interesting meeting with my mother last night, when I showed her the photographs of the C11 submarine and it's crew. She recognised the chap above the strangler looking chap in the middle. He would have been all of 19/20 when he died in the accident, very emotional, although she never met him, or any of his family other than her mum..
I have received my grandmothers birth certificate a couple of days ago, it marries up with our findings, that is, my great grandparents were named Richard and Sarah Stainer. It was nice to tell all this to my mum last night, I will wait for her to arrive here when the weather breaks, and then show her the tree in all it's glory.
The Naval Service Record of Richard William George Stainer, to date, hasn't arrived from Kew. I have never ordered anything from there other than this, are they always this slow, it seems like 15 years ago when it was ordered, I have the reference, so an email may be winging it's way this weekend.
The marriage certificate copy, also hasn't arrived, this is the same as before when it didn't show, I may have to invoke the wrath of the little woman again, works on me...... ::)
When ever I get anything, I will post it up on here, I did join the Submarine Association just to see if anything was revealed, but, nowt yet, although, the Richard Stainer rank of Stoker was an equivalent on petrol engined machines, as the coal fired boilers on the surface ships....
Thanks again to all participants in my quest, I was floundering quite badly before I found you, speak soon..
Borley Manor
reg
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By the cringe, I am a complete twit, whilst waiting for the Naval Record to arrive in the post, the wife points out that the record is actually downloaded direct onto my computer, and not posted to me, do I feel a wally now....incompetent oaf that I am... ::)
Borley Manor
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By the cringe, I am a complete twit, whilst waiting for the Naval Record to arrive in the post, the wife points out that the record is actually downloaded direct onto my computer, and not posted to me, do I feel a wally now....incompetent oaf that I am... ::)
Borley Manor
What a good job you men have us women to help you out ;D ;D ;D
How ever would you manage otherwise?
Carol (mother of two sons and grandma to two boys,a grandaughter due in May though.....yeeehaaa!)
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Hi carol,
I am merely a male with all manner of faults, please help me again....
I have just discovered on this Naval record that he says he was born September 1884, Shaftesbury Dorset, occupation Carter. I cannot find any trace of the birth, now, if I follow the census reports, the William was born in 1887, relative to my grandmothers family. ANDYCAN, on here found the below record :
Richard William G STAINER birth registered Dec Qtr 1887 Mere Reg District which includes East Knoyle which is the birthplace of William STAINER in the 1891 census so it does look like Richard William G is the brother of Alice Maude.
This is all getting confusing again, I may well begin to watch wood warping for a hobby instead ;D
Borley Manor
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Hi carol,
I am merely a male with all manner of faults, please help me again....
I have just discovered on this Naval record that he says he was born September 1884, Shaftesbury Dorset, occupation Carter. I cannot find any trace of the birth, now, if I follow the census reports, the William was born in 1887, relative to my grandmothers family. ANDYCAN, on here found the below record :
Richard William G STAINER birth registered Dec Qtr 1887 Mere Reg District which includes East Knoyle which is the birthplace of William STAINER in the 1891 census so it does look like Richard William G is the brother of Alice Maude.
This is all getting confusing again, I may well begin to watch wood warping for a hobby instead ;D
Borley Manor
Sounds like he fibbed a bit to get into the army ,making himself seem 3 years older than he was?
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Yes, I considered that possibility, the naval record says that his complexion was fresh, also it shows in the picture of the crew. I imagine life was pretty hard for the young in those days, so, regular employment was a wonderful opportunity. This was in peace time though, not with the fervour of patriotism of the WW1 scenario, it's very annoyingly strange, but, as a mere male, I would have done the same. Maybe he did lie, who knows, I will delve further before I get a piece of wood to watch warping... ;)
His record shows that he began his naval career in 1904, if he was born in 1884 as the record shows, then he would have been approx 20 yrs old, if on the other hand, he was born in 1887, then he would only have been 17 yrs old when joining up....one wonders how many 17 year olds would contemplate doing that these days without the aid of drink and drugs to spur them on... :-X A different mindset in them thar days methinks..
Borley Manor
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What a good job you men have us women to help you out
How ever would you manage otherwise?
Carol (mother of two sons and grandma to two boys,a grandaughter due in May though.....yeeehaaa!)
Well managed by the way, males can be useful sometimes, if you let us...
subserveantly yours ;D
Borley Wood
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Richard Stainer's Naval record...
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Big enough for the hard of hearing ???? It was as much of a surprise to me....
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HMS Bonadventure..submarine supply ship in 06/07.
DD is good Naval abreviations Discharged Dead! :(
Theres plenty on the net about the ships a number were Shore Establishments.
Ady
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Thanks for that info, I will look it all up as time permits.
Incidently, the date of birth on the Naval Record as 1884 is my grandmothers birth date, her brother Richard was actually born in 1887, therefore making him only 17 when he joined up..
Anyone sponsor me in making a time machine so we can ask a few questions of ancestors..??? ;)
Borley Manor
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The DD abbreviation looks like a DW to me at first, I thought it meant Drowned Wet, or Discharged Wet, shows how little I know really. Thanks for the helpful answer..
Borley Mnaor..
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Down at the bottom of the record, it shows A column of gratuities, was this some form of insurance for a death from Lloyds Patriotic Fund, and, would records be available..?
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http://www.lloyds.com/About_Us/Corporate_responsibility/Charity/Lloyds_Patriotic_Fund/
Its still up and running today...dont know how youll get records back there though!
Ady
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http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=141672&st=0&#entry1352684
Reg a bit more including press release on c11
ady
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Bless you for this, I have enlisted with them, as they say and ready to regale the forum members with my history findings. It is difficult to know where to glean all information pertaining to this mishap from, and this sort of finding is marvellous, thanks again.
I did join the Submarine Assoc', but, it seems a bit of a submariners local and interlopers are not really paid heed to, still, nothing ventured etc...
Maybe I will get these email/Times excerpts from the guy who posted the info, who knows, I will certainly ask...
Strange how the distances keep changing, first it was off the coast of Cromer, Norfolk, then 4.5. miles from the Haisboro' lightship, and now it's 20 miles from that...almost Holland in fact ::), still, I keep trying to get the facts.....
Reg
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This is the Richard William George Stainer, and a probable copy photograph of the one my mother saw all those years ago. This has all been proved now, but so much information, I have to compile a booklet of it all. The finding of this photograph was through another distant relative of mine that knows nothing of me at all...I will keep you all up to snuff on further findings as they are revealed.....
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I have just come across these posts and it has solved a puzzle. My great aunt mentioned an uncle killed in a submarine. Her mother was Rose Stainer (who married Walter Wareham) and I now know that this is Richard William G Stainer, Rose's brother.
I have a family history website with Stainer information on it at -
http://www.southwilts.com/site/My-family-history-by-Mark-Wareham/
see under Wareham family and then on the spreadsheet on the tab 'S' for Stainer.