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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: jt123 on Tuesday 12 January 10 23:26 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am tracing a line of Fortescues of "Baulking Grange" (near Uffington) - previously known as "Costars Farm". The first Fortescue (Francis) appears to have moved there in the early 1700's, had a son (Francis) in 1709, and died in 1769.
The Fortescues lived there until the 1880s.
I am trying to find out where this origional Francis Fortescue came from so I can tie my line into the main Fortescue tree.
Any ideas or suggestions greatfully appreciated!
cheers,
John
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Hi John,
Some ideas for you as in my PRs (from OFHS) there are several families you may be interested in;
Buckland, Berks - Bapt. 13-2-1704 Francis Fortescue son of John 7 Mary
" " - " 14-1-1693 William " " " "
No trace of John & Mary's marriage in Buckland
Stanford in the Vale - Marr. 8-11-1817 Francis Fortescue (by Licence) to Jemima Wicks
Uffington Bapt. 10-4-1709 Francis Fortescue son of Francis. (This I see you already have.)
There are also four baptisms in Baulking that range from 1865 to 1875 which I can include if required.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Thanks for the quick response! (and helpful references)
I have searched most of the nearby parish records - and nothing seems to fit. Thats why I believe he came from elsewhere - perhaps inherited the lands?
Based on the fact that his son was born in 1709, I assume that Francis may have been born around 1680 - 1690?
The frustrating thing is I have a copy of his will - but that doesnt seem to help at all in going back any further.
regards,
John
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Hi John,
Welcome to RC :)
Found these two marriages from OFHS Oxfordshire Marriage Index
29 Nov 1613 John Fortescue to Agnes Greenwood at Kidlington
27 July 1695 John Fortescue, Combe to Elizabeth May, Combe at Ox St Mary Vir
Sue
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John
Have you seen the submitted records on familysearch.com that refer to this family that seem to have parents for Francis?
KN
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Hi KN and Sue,
Thanks also for the quick responses!
(This chat site is amazing!)
KN - I looked on Familysearch - but dont see the sumbmitted records you are talking about? (Unless it is the records I have submitted previosuly?)
Sue - The index you found for 1695 sounds very interesting! Would that be for St Marys in Buckland or Uffington? There seems to have been another (different) Fortescue family at Buckland around the same time as my family was in Baulking.
regards,
John
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Dear John
will go back to familysearch in a while to chase up the details that I earlier referred to, but want to show you an amazing coincidence .......
I have just been browsing in the Wantage marriage records for the early 1700s looking for a completely unrelated family, and have found the following!
1757 17th October, marriage of John Jilling, single man of Wantage, and Sarah Weaving, of Goosey, Stanford, witnesses Francis Fortescue and John Noke.
;D :o
KN
I note that there is a cluster of Fortescue baptisms & burials in Wantage from the 1780s onwards but no Francis. You may well know about these already.
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Apologies John - the familysearch records that I saw earlier this morning were referring to the two Francis' that you already know about - got too excited too soon!
KN
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How about these Fortescues?
From St Mary's Longworth
baptism
1697 Feb 13, Foresten/Fortescue, Elizabeth, daughter of Francis & Elizabeth
burials
1740 Aug 13, Elizabeth Fortescue
1755 Feb 28, Francis Fortescue
KN
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Hi KN,
Thanks for all your interest and help thus far! I rally appreciate you taking an interest in this.
It would be great if I could tied the Baulking Fortescues into the ones in Buckland / Longworth - as it is not so far away from Baulking.
The ones you found in Longworth are very very tempting - seems like there was a a Francis and Elizabeth Fortescue having children (a daughter at least) in 1697 around the same time my ancestors were in Baulking. I suppose it is possible that they could be the same couple - and possibly had a child in Longworth and then moved to Baulking and had more children quite a bit later? And perhaps he was buried back in Longworth as he doesnt seem to have been buried in Baulking (not in the church records anyway).
Is it possible to get details of the burial inscriptions at Longworth? (Perhaps they can add something useful?)
However - the Elizabeth in Longworth doesnt seem to get a mention in his will that he made in 1743. Perhaps she had died already?
The will also doesnt mention a wife - which indicated that she had died before 1743 - which would also fit nicely with the Elizabeth Fortescue of Longworth who died in 1740 . . .
But (and here is a big sticking point) according to the will - there is a note on it saying that he died in 1769 - and the will was proved in 1779.
I have attached the family group sheet I have compiled thus far with my reasearch notes.
I will scan and attach the will as well when I get a chance.
Any other ideas greatfully accepted!
kind regards,
John
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Here are the otehr pages of the Will . .
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Hi
I think the Longworth chap might be your guy. I just checked the 1727 Berkshire Poll Book (Eureka Partnership transcript). Under voters in Longworth it gives Francis Fortescue, abode Balkin (sic), so it looks as though the land that qualified him to vote was in Longworth although at time he lived at Balkin
:)
DebbieG
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Well done DebbieG!
Since a link to Longworth has been established I thought that you might like the following:
in the Longworth parish records Fortescue is listed with Forsten (see Elizabeth in earlier post) and there is a Foscue as well. It seems to me that Fortescue could easily be written down as Foscue. So here are some more for your colllection.
Forsten
John baptised July 1, 1700 s/o Francis & Elizabeth
Mary, baptised 1702, d/o Francis & Elizabeth
Elizabeth, buried Feb 4 1696 d/o Francis
John, buried Sep 9 1701, s/o Francis, not worth 600
Foscue
Francis, buried March 18, 1704, s/o Francis, Chimeney in Bampton.
I'm now off to visit the Bampton records!
KN
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Hmmmm, nothing in the Bampton or Witney St Mary records for your Fortescues.
The Berkshire Burial Index has about 8 references to various Francis'. Including a reference to Speen - does anyone else have PRs for Speen for a quick look up for Fortescues please.
There is another branch of the family using Besselsleigh church - a Francis Fortesue s/o John, baptised later in 1700s.
Also would it be worth a quick check in the Oxfordshire Marriage Index please for any likely candidates?
Just surmising here - it seems that Fortescue is not a common name, but that references to the name Francis are frequent among those few listings. Might there have been a particularly notable/popular/famous/infamous Francis maybe a couple of generations back that all the branches of the family felt that they should name their children after?
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Hi KN / Debbie and Don (via seperate email),
Just saw your replies - great detective work!
Thanks again for your assistance with this - esepcially the Longworth voter's information that seems to definately tie the 2 Francis' together!
I think we are definately on to something here that sounds very exciting as I should be able to get this family back another generation . . . .
From your info below and the seperate email from Don - and ignoring the death date pencilled onto the will (I assume solicitors dont always have all the facts at their fingertips!) we can assume the following (and also ignoring the "Forstens" for now):
There were a Francis and Elizabeth Fortescue living in Longworth that also had land in Baulking and lived there as well for some period of time.
They had the following children at Longworth:
Elizabeth Fortescue ch 13 Feb 1697 parents : Francis Fortescue
Francis Fortescue ch 1 Jul 1700 parents: Fran Foscue and Elizabeth
Mary Foscue ch 16 Aug 1702 parents; Francis Foscue and Elixabeth
(and possibly another daughter - Frances - who is mentioned in the will - and who fits nicely between the first 3 and the next 2)
Then it appears that the first son (Francis) dies at Longworth as an infant
Francis, buried March 18, 1704, s/o Francis, Chimeney in Bampton.
Then it appears that they had another couple of children at Baulking (registered at Uffington - same parish)
Francis Fortescue ch 10 Apr 1709 parents Francis Fortescue
Sarah Fortescue ch 25 Oct 1713 parents: Francis Fortescue
(This next Francis is my ancestor and lives a healthy and long life, dying in 1793)
The parents (Francis and Elizabeth) are buried back in Longworth as follows:
1740 Aug 13, Elizabeth Fortescue
1755 Feb 28, Francis Fortescue
Assuming they started having children around 1697 - they may have been married around 1696 - which means they may have been born around 1675 which would make Francis about 80 when he died and Elizabth about 65.
So it all seems to fit rather nicely!
KN - FYI - Yes Fortescue is not a particularly common name - and all lines seem to come ulimately from the first ancestor as described in Don's Fortescue Web site (www.fortescue.org)
"Richard Le Fort was at the Battle of Hastings in 1066. The legend is that he saved William, the Duke of Normandy, by use of his shield. He then adopted the name Fort Escu ( Strong shield ) and returned to France to found the French Fortescu Branch. His son Adam, who also fought at the Battle of Hastings, settled in South Devon near Modbury. All English Fortescues are descended from him."
The name "Francis" does seem to ve very prominany in my libe - with most generations using thename for the oldest son. Just struggling to tie my line into the main family branches that Don has compiled on his web site.
Does anyone know if the cemetary inscriptions at Longworth are available? They may give us some other pointers into where they came from or what they were doing?
kind regards and thanks again for your interest!
John
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Dear John
Have checked the Longworth MIs, (thankyou YattonHarry!), but there is no reference to the Fortescue family.
However thought that you might like to see the following. It's from Jackson's Oxford Journal.
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Hi KN (and YattonHarry),
Thank you very much for checking the Longworth Cemerary inscriptions!
I was very hopefull that they would shed some light on this couple and where they came from. I wonder why they wouldn't have had a grave stone in the cemetary? Perhaps it was damaged / lost?
Thanks also for the article from the JOJ.
That would be in reference to a later ancestor - also a Francis Fortescue - who was married to Jemima Wicks, and who died on 12th July 1824.
So I gather I am back to the drawing board on how to make the next step back - I will keep chipping away to see if there is any way to connect back to the main trunk.
kind regards,
John
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Hi KN,
Thanks again for all your help in the past.
Just wondering if you still have access to the Longworth Parish records?
If so - would it be possible if you could do a quick check to see if there are any marriage references for a Francis Fortescue and Elizabeth around 1690 - 1697?
Thanks in advance!
regards,
John
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Have you seen the Fortescues in Bradfield on the IGI? Best to view via Hugh Wallis.
KN
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Thank you very much for checking the Longworth Cemerary inscriptions!
I was very hopefull that they would shed some light on this couple and where they came from. I wonder why they wouldn't have had a grave stone in the cemetary? Perhaps it was damaged / lost?
Many people never had an expensive gravestone, though the Fortesques seem to have the wherewithall for this puspose.
The average life of a gravestone inscription is probably around 100-150 years, 200 year old ones only survive if the stone is in a sheltered spot or the stone itself is more resiliant than most to weathering.
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Sorry John, there are no Fortescue/Foscue/Forsten marriages in Longworth.
KN
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Hi KN,
Thanks for checking so quickly!!
Much appreciated.
Too bad they wernt married there . . .
Good idea re the gravestones - maybe they just slowly weathered away.
Thanks also for the tip re Bradfield - looks like there were a few Forescues there earlier on (1500's and early 1600's) - including a couple of Francis'!
Sounds like it could be a feasable connection - just need to find the missing generations?
Any ideas?
cheers,
John
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John
I apologise in advance for being a bit vague - tiredness I'm afraid.
I haven't really got a clear picture of your problem but when I went to Tom Browns School Museum in Uffington today I checked the Uffington Parish registers.
From 1709 to 1763 - there are 6 possibly relevant baptisms (there are others)
From 1733-1782 - there are 6 possibly relevant marriages
From 1793 - 1836 there are 5 possible relevant burials.
In the Uffington Churchyard Survey carried out by the Friends of the Museum between 2002 and 2009 we transcribed 11 Fortescue headstones.
I'm not sure what you have from the Uffington registers but if you would like any of the above details please let me know.
Regards
Cello
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Hi Cello,
Thanks for taking the time to add this info - I am (pleasantly) suprised that people are still taking an interest in this thread!
Yes - I have all the info from the Uffington parish records - but unfoirtunately they dont seem to go back far enough for me to connect all the dots . . . .
Thanks to the help from everyone on this chat site I have managed to stretch the line back one more generation (as outlined below) - to Francis and Elizabeth Fortescue who were buried in Longworth but lived in Baulking for a while - they seem to be the origional Fortescues of Baulking?
I am now stuck on working out where they came from?? One would naturally assume Longworth - but cant seem to find them on the records . . .
Just when you think you have have gotten back far enough to be able to graft them into the mother tree - it seems like there is always another generation needed to make the link!
As always - any help from anyomne out there greatly appreciated.
regards,
John
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Hi All,
Me again!
I decided to pull out the Fortescue file again and have another look and see if any new info has popped up re the family in Baulking . . .
Cant seem to find much new on the Internet - however, I had another look at the family from Buckland, and it seems that the original Francis Fortescue from the Baulking line and the original John Fortescue from the Buckland line probably came form the same parents?
I spent some time piecing together the Buckland line (see attached - sorry in advance for the messy scribble) - and the original John Fortescue would have been born in the same period as Francis Fortescue - who we assume was buried in Longworth in 1755.
Longworth is quite close to Buckland - so it makes sense that the original family ties in together somewhere around that area?
Just wondering if someone out there has access to the memorial inscriptions from the local parish church in Buckland - just to see if any of them shed any more light on the family and where they may have come from?
Also - wondering if anyone has any access to any of the older wills of the Buckland Fortescues. I already have one will - of William Fortescue (snr) who died 1759.
Thanks!
John
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Have you looked at the list of wills on the National Archives website? There seem to be many more on there than the last time I looked. Quite a few Fortescue ones - maybe something interesting?
KN
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Thanks KN!
Yes - I noticed that there seems to be more Wills available now on the NA website. Unfortunately I cant seem to find any related to the end of line Fortescues I am hunting for, however I did find some useful ones for another family line I am working on! (Quick and easy way to spend money!)
Thanks again for the tip!
cheers,
John
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Some references to Fortescue in this post - may be of interest.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=645050.0
KN
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Dear John
I have been reading the correspondence on Rootschat regarding the Fortescue family of Berkshire and that of Baulking in particular with interest. I am at the moment helping a friend with her Fortescue family history which may have links with your family.
The Fortescue family I am researching has been traced to Jane Fortescue who was baptised in Wantage on the 2nd February 1787. Her parents were John Fortescue (bapt 14/1/1758 in Faringdon (although from Little Coxwell)) and Sarah Giles (from Letcombe Regis) who married in Wantage on the 3rd July 1780. Jane's grandparents were James Fortescue and Elizabeth Hazel who married (by licence) on 20th September 1751 in Uffington. James (according to the Licence Bond) was from Great Coxwell and his wife was from Fernham. Looking at the Great Coxwell Parish Register there is a James Fortescue baptised on 15th Agust 1736 which maybe this James. His parents are given as another James and Mary.
Any connections with your reseach.? Buckland, Faringdon, the Coxwells and Uffington are all in (a geographical) line to Wantage so there is most probably a link somewhere.
Kind regards
Trevor
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The marriage of an Elizabeth Fortescue is mentioned in this thread .....
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=645050.0
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Hi KN, thanks for the tip - it's been such a long time I wasn't aware this thread was still active! (But so glad it is!)
I looked your reference to the other thread - here it is extracted:
18-1-1802 Francis Giles (x), otp to
Elizabeth Fortescue (x) otp
wit; Luke Pigott, clerk of the parish.
extracted from the Letcombe Regis transcriptions on the Oxfordshire FHS CD (OXF-WAN01) with their permission.
Unfortunately I can't see a link between my direct Fortescues and this Elizabeth - but they must be related. I need to go through all the Berkshire Fortescue marriages and burial indexes I have been sent recently and sort out each family and try and work out where they all connect. Thanks again for keeping in touch! Kind Regards John
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Hi Trevor, how are you? Sorry I missed your post from a couple of years ago! Again - this family must be closely connected to my direct ancestors having come from such a close village - I just haven't found any James Fortescue in my line as yet - but as mentioned in my previous post I plan to sit down and try and tie all the closely linked Fortescue families of Berkshire together and see where that takes me. Hopefully I can find the connection and ultimately find the missing link between all these Berkshire Fortescue families back to the main Fortescue tree. Best regards John
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Hi Trevor,
I had a another look at the Fortescues you mentioned that were from Little Coxwell, Great Coxwell and Wantage.
I assume you may already have this info, however -
The James Fortescue born in 1736 in Great Coxwell would only have been 15 years old if he was the one married in 1751 to Elizabeth Hazel in Uffington?
There was a Thomas Fortescue christened on the same day as his brother John in Faringdon on 14/10/1758 - maybe twins (or they just saved up and went to town to do both on the same day?)
John Fortescue and Sarah (m. 1780 in Wantage) had Anne and Jane (both Christened on 22/1/1787 - twins again?), and Sarah (1784) and Elizabeth (1781)
Cheers,
John
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Hi All,
It's been a couple of years - without any progress on this particular line - however I may have just stumbled on a set of legal docs from the UK National Archives that may shed some light on a John Fortescue in the 16th Century that may have been the original landowner in Baulking and other nearby towns. Problem is I can't decipher the old English very easily - so I was wondering if there is anyone else out there that may be good at reading old documents from the 16th century? If so - I would greatly appreciate any help. Please see attached files.
Kind Regards,
John
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Oh no - I can't seem to add all the files as they are too large for this post.
If you are interested in seeing a copy - please email me at -
thatcher_john@hotmail.com
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Here is one other small file that seems to post.
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There are 3 other files / documents that I can email to you . . .