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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Plummiegirl on Tuesday 12 January 10 22:28 GMT (UK)

Title: Goldbeater Apprentice Records (COMPLETED) see last entry
Post by: Plummiegirl on Tuesday 12 January 10 22:28 GMT (UK)
Can anyone advise. 
My g/g/grandfather was a Goldbeater.  I contacted the Goldsmiths in the City of London & they told me they could not check their records to see if he had done an aprrenticeship.  Funny about 2 years later they could do it for Patsy Kensit!!!

Does anyone know how I can find his records if the Goldsmiths Guild will not help?

I do know that at one point in his career, when the railings & gates at Buckingham Palace were being re-furbished he worked on them.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: behindthefrogs on Tuesday 12 January 10 23:01 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately the Goldsmiths Company still holds most of its records and has not deposited them at Guildhall Library like most of the City Livery Companies.

Will they let you view the apprentice records if you visit Goldsmiths' Hall?

David
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Tuesday 12 January 10 23:10 GMT (UK)
Must admit that when I contacted them several years ago, they were not all that helpful, in fact I found the person I was talking to quite discouraging.

I think I will try again, if I can view their records in person then that would be great, as I have his dob & dod, so that would give a timeline to check.  He must have been quite active as his son-in-law was a metal dealer, I mght even find something on him too, you never know.  If they are not too helpful again I will mention that all I want is the same type of info that they were able to give Patsy Kensit, which did not look too difficult.  All their records are in year order etc. so I cannot see how hard it can be!

Will call them again some time next week when my voice is back to normal, very croaky at present & too much talking makes me cough, much to other halfs delight I am not talking much at present, boy is he in for it when I feel better :D
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Monday 05 July 10 12:30 BST (UK)
There is a book called goldsmiths and there marks it is very helpfull
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Redroger on Monday 05 July 10 15:08 BST (UK)
Plummie Girl, I believe the goldsmiths require you to make an appointment and to pay a charge to view their records.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Monday 05 July 10 15:26 BST (UK)
Not correct their Is a book as I have stated

Goldsmith marks of London and Ireland

 look it up at your local library

you may have to borrow it from the inter library loan program

 Or call your local art musuem, they may have a copy of it.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Monday 05 July 10 15:28 BST (UK)
what was his full name


try looking under the city directories under goldsmiths

bill
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 06 July 10 15:59 BST (UK)
There would seem to be something of a difference between a book of goldsmiths' marks and the historical records of the guild unless the book was published by the goldsmiths.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Tuesday 06 July 10 16:04 BST (UK)
I think that you are confusing Goldsmiths with Goldbeaters.

A Goldsmith would in all probability "lodged" his mark with the Goldsmiths company

But a Goldbeater was not considered skilled enough to have a mark.  He would have in all probability worked for a Goldsmith or been a journeyman.

And the Goldsmiths Company are not open at weekends, so getting there in the week is a nightmare.

I am still in 2 minds whether or not to speak to them again, not sure if I can keep my temper should they tell me again that they can not help.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 06 July 10 16:31 BST (UK)
If they refuse, then why not go public on them? The newsmedia love that sort of thing, e.g. open for Patsy Kensit but not an ordinary person.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Tuesday 06 July 10 17:15 BST (UK)
try contacting gregory oconnor of the national archives of ireland. I have found him quite helpfull at times.

bill
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Wednesday 07 July 10 12:42 BST (UK)
I am now going to ask a really stupid question, why would I want to contact someone in Ireland, when he lived all his life in SW London?


Rather than post another reply. 

My ancestor was a GOLDBEATER, not a GOLDSMITH, therefore the level of records which may be held on him will not be as numerous as those held for a goldsmith.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Wednesday 07 July 10 13:00 BST (UK)
because alot of the publications on goldsmiths cover great brittain in general not just LOndon.


It sounds like your quit frustrated. I have been seeking journals of Gideon Ouseley for years. They exist but the institutions are not co-operative. Just the way it is !!

bill
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Thursday 08 July 10 15:16 BST (UK)
Right - an update - and very good news  :D

I phoned the Goldsmiths Company yesterday afternoon and was put through to the Librarian (rather than the Archivist) and she was wonderfully helpful.

I am over the weekend going to write to her, giving her my g/g/grandfathers details and she will check the records for me.

The man I spoke to all those years ago was so rude and standoffish (maybe he did not like my cockney accent!!) and very unhelpful, telling me that they would not have anything for a goldbeater as his occupation was not so important as a Goldsmith.  Such a snob!

Will let you know if there is anything there about him, whether you are interested or not as I shall be so excited if there is!!!!
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Thursday 08 July 10 15:20 BST (UK)
Can you keep an eye out for me on the last name of Robinett as a goldsmith in co. cork Ireland. He was apprenticed to a carden terry a very well known goldsmith.

of which I am in contact with a person researching him as well.

good luck !! remember persisitance shall pervall !!

Bill
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Redroger on Friday 09 July 10 14:43 BST (UK)
I have a relative, John Luffman, who was described as a goldsmith and an engraver.In view of what you say Plummie Girl about Cockney accents I had better write rather than call, my northern accent would have them calling security, they would think I was casing the place!
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Friday 09 July 10 15:24 BST (UK)
If you do decide to call, do the number for the Librarian 0207 606 7010, she is lovely.  Very helpful.

And we Londoners are not that bad with accents from up north.  I have no trouble.  Its only the very fast talking w. coast of Ireland and the very high scottish highlands that I find hard to decipher.

Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Redroger on Friday 09 July 10 16:04 BST (UK)
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: wjrobin64 on Friday 09 July 10 21:43 BST (UK)
where are scotter ??

have a relative from liverpool !!

he sent me a pharse book yesrs ago.

I think he comes from the LIne of the surname from co. Wicklow.

Bill
Title: Re: Goldbeater Apprentice Records
Post by: Plummiegirl on Sunday 22 August 10 11:57 BST (UK)
Having sent a letter to the Goldsmiths Company, received a reply a few weeks ago and they have no records of my g/g/grandfather.

If I recall the bulk of the records for Patsy Kensits ancestor were for requests for financial assistance.

Maybe mine was a bit more successful and did not need any help.  I do know that one of his son-in-law's was a dealer in "metals" and maybe they were able to help each other when it came to work & contacts.