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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MercianSte on Tuesday 12 January 10 12:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for information on Thomas Simpson. Although I have spent the last decaded researching my tree, Thomas is the first ancester i have had to deal with in London - and am abit overwealmed by the challenge at the moment!!
I am decended from Thomas' daughter, Elizabeth Simpson, who was born in 1840, and later moved to Burton-upon-Trent. On her marriage record, it says that her father was Thomas Simpson, a Watch Maker.
I think I have been able to find Elizabeth on the 1851 census, living at 127 Oxford Street, Marylebone, Middlesex. She is living with her mother Elizabeth (45 - Stay Maker - Born Northamptonshire), and siser Emma (7 - Stay Maker - London). By 1861, this family has moved to Winchester, Hampshire (on one of the later census', Elizabeth says she was born in Winchester, on all others is says London). Once again she is living with her mother (58 - House Keeper - Biford (??). Northamptonshire), and her sister Emma (28 - Stay Maker - London). Also in the house is Elizabeth's neice, Louisa Ashdown (3 - Winchester, Hampshire). I have no idea who Louisa is, and who her mother might be.
On the 1851 census, Elizabeth Snr says she is Married, but by the 1861 census she is a Widow. I have no idea when Thomas dies.
I have had trouble finding Elizabeth Jnr and Emma on the 1841 census. But I believe that I may have found Elizabeth Snr, living on Oxford Street, St Marylebone, London. She has been enterd as Eliza Simpson (35 - Milliner - Not Born in County). In the same household is Thos Simpson (40 - Watch M - Born in County).
Sorry for the long winded explenation, but I though it best to give all of the information. I often miss important information of these posts, and would be surprised if I have mentioned all the information needed to get some help. After all this, can any one answer the following questions;
1) Can anyone help me find a marriage for Thomas & Elizabeth. I now it might be imposible (with at least 2 counties to cover), but I thought I would give it a go.
2) Can anyone help me find out who Louisa Ashdown's parents were (without having to spend £7!). Maybe finding out who Louisa's mother was might help me track down more information on Thomas.
3) Can anyone find Thomas on the 1851 census. It may give the village in Middlesex, or district of London he was born in, so that may help me out! (Now Answered)
4) Can anyone find a death for Thomas. As I have said above, I think it would have happened between 1851-1861. (Now Answered)
5) I quess that Thomas would have had to serve an apprentership to become a Watch Maker. Where would I be able to find these records. (Now Answered)
Thanks in advance,
Tippin
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Try The Clockmakers Company http://www.clockmakers.org/, They are very helpful and hold many of the makers records apart from the details of individuals that were registered with them. Pete
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Hi Pete,
Thanks for the link. I have just sent of an email to them. Hopefully they will have his apprentice records!
Thanks again,
Tippin
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I had a look at my clock books and 'Watchmakers and clockmakers of the world, vol II' lists a Thomas Simpson in London, 1828-44. No way to know if this is your man but the dates fit. Now all you need is to find a watch that he made...
It is worth looking in Clerkenwell, since that was the centre of the watch trade in London.
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Hi Chasbaz,
Thanks for the information. The dates do seem to fit my Thomas, shame he had to have a common surname!!
I wonder if he died in 1844. That would certainly explain why I can not find him in 1851. Perhaps the 51 entry for Elizabeth is wrong, it should read widowed instead of married.
It would be great to find a watch that he acctually made. Was it a common occupation in the mid 19th century?
Thanks,
Tippin
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If you can't find a death for him he could have moved away. I don't mean he ran off (though that is possible I guess) but maybe he decided to move the business to Winchester or somewhere else and his family followed later. I haven't found a Thomas listed in Winchester, but that doesn't mean he didn't go. It would help to find a will - I looked briefly in the National Archives and there are several Thomases but none described as a watchmaker. There is: Will of Thomas Simpson, Gentleman of Clerkenwell , Middlesex
Date 28 January 1842 Catalogue reference PROB 11/1957 - because it is Clerkenwell it makes it possible that it was a watchmaker but it is a very long shot. Let's hope the Guildhall comes up with something. You might try London directories for the period as well. There are several online websites as well as Google Books, e.g., http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/ud/usingdir4.asp
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Hi
Checking the 1851 census for Thomas Simpsons born Middlesex within 10 years of circa 1800 gets 6 possible Thomases with the most interesting being the one in Winchester.
1851 census HO107 1674 folio 48?
Staple Garden St Thomas Winchester
Thomas Simpson 42 Married Lodger Watchmaker (journeyman) London Middlesex
Deaths Sep 1856
SIMPSON Thomas Winchester 2c 59
Lodging with him is James Anderson 24 Unmarried Cabinet maker (journeyman) also born London
Regards
Valda
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Presuming the age of Emma in 1861 as "28" is correct (why "7" in 1851, though?), could they be part of the set of siblings shown on IGI as christened at St. James, Westminster?
Five children were christened 16 Oct 1826: Elizabeth (must have died), Sarah, Charlotte, Ann, an Robert.
George was christened 18 Jan 1829, Emma, 16 Sep 1832, and then finally the younger Elizabeth, 16 August 1840.
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
- shows in the 1841 directory Thomas at the Oxford street address, but also in 1852 a Charles Ashdown, watchmaker, Stratford Broadway, don't know if that might be a connection.
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Hi
Charles Ashdown in Stratford in 1851, was a watch and clockmaker aged 40 married with 6 children and by 1861 still in West Ham had 8.
Westminster Archives hold the St James parish registers. They would confirm whether the father's occupation was a watchmaker.
Regards
Valda.
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I have Charles Ashdown listed as working in Stratford 1839-51
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Wow, so much information - where do I start!!!
I have had a reply from the Clockmakers Company. They have kindley given my some information about Thomas. They have told me that there is a Thomas who was at 119 Oxford Street in 1826, 85 Oxford Street between 1829-1831, 387 1/2 in 1835, no number Oxford Street from 1840, and then at 129 Oxford Street in 1847. They have sugested that after this date, he may of either stoped trading, entered into a partnership, or moved out of London - I think one of the postes above answers this question!
So, it looks as if there could have been 8 children between Thomas & Elizabeth. I will have to get down to the Westminster Archives later in the year and trace that one up. If you were living in Marylebone would you take your children to be christend in Westminster? (Sorry if that is a stupid question - I have only ever ventured into the capital on a couple of occasions, and do not know the layout that well)
I see that the 1851 census has Thomas living in Winchester! Thank you so much for finding that, and the death as well (an aplication for that will be quickley placed with the GRO's website as soon as I finish writing this reply!!). So me must have moved down to Winchester, and then his family followed. It also looks as if he may not be working for himself anymore - I think a 'Journeyman' was somebody who travelled for work - please correct me if I am wrong!
With Charles Ashown - I persume it is Stratford in London. Coming form the Midlands, when I first saw the post, I automatically thought of Straford-upon-Avon! I will certainly look that one up, and see if I can find out who his wife was, and if it matches with the names provided from the IGI.
Thank all so much for your great help,
Tippin
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Good results!
The 'journey' in journeyman refers to a day, as in French.
So effectively it means you are working for someone else, maybe on a casual basis.
After you finished your apprenticeship you would be a journeyman, and finally a 'master'.
HTH
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Hi
Charles Ashdown was consistently in Essex (Stratford West Ham which became part of London in the 1960s) from the 1841 census onwards where his wife Louisa Ann was born circa 1813. Their first child was born circa 1838/1839 in Stratford, but it looks like they probably married before civil registration. On the 1861 census all 8 of their children were born in West Ham. Louisa Ann's last child appears to have been Rosalind Julia who was born in 1855 when Louisa Ann was about 42. Her daughter Louisa Charlotte was born in 1850. They had 4 sons. Three sons appear on the 1861 census with the family unmarried. The 4th son Edward was born in 1840.
There seems no obvious connection with this family.
Regards
Valda
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Hi,
Just to let you know, I recieved the death certificate for the Thomas Simpson who died in Winchester - and it's my Thomas!! He was 58 (so, born abt 1798), and was a Watch Maker!
Thanks to every one who helped me track down Thomas!
Tippin
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Hi Tippin,
My mom bought a grandfather clock in 1969 from what I assume would be the same Thomas Simpson you are looking for. She bought it in Newcastle upon Tyne she said. She would love to find out more about Thomas and the history behind the clocks he made. Have you managed to find more information about him? It would be awesome to hear more and I’m sure she’d be more than happy to send you a picture of the clock she has. She’s been looking for him for a while and I just happened upon your post right now as she asked if I could help her find some info.
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My GG Grandfather was Thomas Simpson, DofB 1808 Market Bosworth Leicestershire. Married to Elizabeth Lancaster in 1840 in Lichfield Staffordshire. He was a watch and clockmaker as was his brother Joseph. He was also an author regarding clocks and also a newspaper reporter He died in March 1895 in Lichfield his wife Elizabeth died in 1866. If this is the same person I would be delighted to hear from you. However, they had a daughter Elizabeth who died in infancy ( I will have to check)
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Thomas Osbaston Simpson (Full name) moved from London to Lichfield to get married and join his watchmaker brother Joseph. A couple of years ago a bracket clock was auctioned, it was wrongly attributed to Joseph Simpson. I bid for it but it was knocked down at £8,900 plus buyers commission, to expensive. Thomas was the journeyman for Joseph. Thomas invented a waterproof pocket watch which was displayed in a jar of water on the counter of Josephs shop. My Grandfather as a small boy saw the watch on many occasions. I am still trying to locate a copy of his book about clock numbering.