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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Irish Harding on Monday 11 January 10 00:32 GMT (UK)

Title: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Monday 11 January 10 00:32 GMT (UK)
Looking for information on John Harding, born 1816, in Costnerr, Cork, Ireland.  He married Mary Fitzgerald, born 1824, same location.  They moved to Northumberland, England where John was in the Coast Guard. 
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: crimea1854 on Saturday 24 April 10 08:44 BST (UK)
Hi

You might like to know that John Harding was one of those Coast Guards called up for service in the Royal Navy during the Crimean War. He served on HMS Monarch (Ships No.38) and HMS Exmouth (Ships No.39), for this service he was awarded the Baltic Medal, which was sent to Sunderland Coast Guard Station on 6 may 1857.

Martin
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Saturday 24 April 10 15:12 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for the followup.  It is hard to find information from so far away.
Brenda Harding
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 24 April 10 16:05 BST (UK)
Looking for information on John Harding, born 1816, in Costnerr, Cork, Ireland.  He married Mary Fitzgerald, born 1824, same location.  They moved to Northumberland, England where John was in the Coast Guard. 


Is the 'Costnerr' location clue from a census return ?

I cant think of anywhere in Cork with that name...
 

Shane
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Saturday 24 April 10 16:55 BST (UK)
The 1861 Census from Bedlington, Northumberland is the one that lists Coatnerr or what I read as that for both John and wife Mary.
If you check it, maybe you will get another spelling that means more.
I first have them listed in the 1851 Census in Blyth, Northumberland.
Thanks for responding.
Brenda Harding
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 24 April 10 17:21 BST (UK)
attached is an extract of the census image for 1861 showing John's place of birth, and lower down the son John's place of birth (Carrigaline)

I think the John Snrs birthplace may end in more, and that the 4th letter is an L not a T   The other ts on the page have definite cross-bars

Maybe something like Coolmore ?



Shane
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Saturday 24 April 10 18:43 BST (UK)
Thanks for looking.  Makes sense to me.  Will now look for further information.
Brenda Harding
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Looking Back on Saturday 24 April 10 20:23 BST (UK)
Hello Brenda

I do have a bit of information

John Harding and Mary Harding (Fitzgerald) had 3 children.
1.0   Robert (born in North Seaton, Northumberland on 25/08/1850) who married Mary Ann Grieves on 8th October 1875 in Morpeth, Northumberland
2.0   Thomas (born  1846/7)
3.0   John (born 1844/5)

Robert Harding was a miner and had 6 children between around 1876/7 and 1890:  Youngest Mary, Sarah, Dorothy, Isabella, John and Robert.

Do you know why John and Mary came over to the UK?  I would be interested to find out any more information about the Harding family before they left Ireland.

Good luck with your search

Kind regards
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Saturday 24 April 10 20:45 BST (UK)
I have them with 6 children: John born 1845 in Ireland, died 1929? Morpeth, married Isabel Unknown.  1871 census Morpeth with sister Mary A.  and brother James/married in 1881 census/1901 census with niece Mary
Thomas born 1848 Durham, married Hannah Unknown with children listed in 1881 census Cramlington.
Robert, born 1851 in North Hartley, married Mary A Unknown in 1881/1891 and 1901 Census
Mary Ann born 1853 only other living with brother.
James born March 24, 1859 Camboise Colliery died March 13, 1932 Somerset Co. PA Married Margaret Isabella Hopper born 1863 Horton/died 1950  Somerset Co. PA
He is my husbands ancestor.  Only recently found the Irish connection.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: agho on Saturday 24 April 10 21:01 BST (UK)
The birth location is most likely Coolmore as Shanew suggested. Coolmore is outside Carrigaline on the way to Currabinny. There was a large demesne there called Coolmore House where they may have worked? See info on this link http://carrigaline.info
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: crimea1854 on Saturday 24 April 10 21:53 BST (UK)
Brenda

The following may be of interest:

John Harding entered the CG Service from HMS Thunderer on 21 December 1844, his first posting being Morston CG Station. On the 22 March 1845 he was transferred to Jarrow Quay, and from here to Blyth Haven on 29 July 1850.

On the 23 October 1857 he was promoted to Commissioned Boatman, remaining at the same station, from where, in June 1861 he was discharged to pension.

Based on the above I checked the National Archives for a Pension Application, and found one for a man who matched most of the known info, This has the NA Cat Ref. ADM 29/63/349. This can be ordered online direct from the NA.

If you do get this record and find that John Harding was serving on HMS Thunderer as an Ordinary Seaman in 1840, then the man of the same name who applied for, and received the Naval General Service Medal with the Syria Clasp, is your John. This medal is currently not recorded as being known to still exist.

Regards


Martin
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: ftcorkmdb on Tuesday 27 April 10 00:12 BST (UK)
John Harding married Mary Fitzgerald, 23 Nov 1843, probably at Raheens, Coolmore, Carrigaline, Passage West/Monkstown Catholic parish.  (Weddings at the time were not generally held in the 'chapel', but in someone's house.)  The Hardings had been employed for many years by the Newenham family on the Coolmore estate (demesne), still owned and farmed by the Newenhams.   As per the Newenham estate papers, Robert Harding paid tithes on his acres at Raheens, Coolmore, in 1787, and Peter Harding and 'the Harding boys'  were listed in 1789 on the Coolmore employment rolls.  The Hardins will probalbly also be found in the Coolmore demesne ledgers in the 1750s.  The Fitzgeralds were stonemasons at Coolmore and very likely helped build Coolmore House (still standing, vacant) in the 1780s.  A James, Thomas and Robert Harding were farmers at Raheens at the time of the census of 1911.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Tuesday 27 April 10 01:55 BST (UK)
Can't thank you enough for forwarding this information.  When I googled Coolmore, I got information on the stud/stable at Coolmore.  Is this the same location?
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: ftcorkmdb on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:22 BST (UK)
No, Coolmore stud is in County Tipperary.  Send me your e-mail address, and I will send you the Harding-Fitzgerald  information I have.  There is some way of sending an e-mail address via a 'private message' on this website, but they keep it a secret. You may have to use one of their secret icons or abbreviations.  I think these people are British, and the British like cute things like that.
You must tell me your name and where you live.  I no longer give out information from my database to people if I don't know who they are.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: KarenM on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:36 BST (UK)
There is some way of sending an e-mail address via a 'private message' on this website, but they keep it a secret. You may have to use one of their secret icons or abbreviations.  I think these people are British, and the British like cute things like that.

It's not a secret.  To send a personal message there is 2 ways. 

1.  Click on the green scroll under the person's name you want to send a private message to.

2.  Click on the person's profile, scroll down a bit, then click on the link that says "send this rootschatter a personal message"




Karen
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:40 BST (UK)
Thank you Karen, I figured it out without too much problem.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: ftcorkmdb on Tuesday 27 April 10 03:59 BST (UK)
And do you expect a reader to be a magician to be able to figure these things out?  Why would I think that a 'green scroll', if that is what you call it, would have anything to do with obtaining someone's e-mail address? 
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: KarenM on Tuesday 27 April 10 13:09 BST (UK)
And do you expect a reader to be a magician to be able to figure these things out?  Why would I think that a 'green scroll', if that is what you call it, would have anything to do with obtaining someone's e-mail address? 

Nope, not at all.  But when your cursor hover's over the green scroll and it says "Send Personal Message", not sure how much clearer it can be?

Here's a link on how to use rootschat, perhaps a read through that might help.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,207046.0.html

Karen
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Looking Back on Tuesday 27 April 10 19:05 BST (UK)
Brenda

Thanks for starting this topic.

ftcorkmdb

I would be really grateful if you could. send a pm to myself with any Harding/Fitzgerald family information.

Much appreciated
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Looking Back on Tuesday 27 April 10 19:07 BST (UK)
I couldn't see the "green scroll" and noticed that the help mentioned that members had to have had 3 posts before it is available - so here is post no 3!!

Thanks again
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: wiserriser on Tuesday 27 April 10 19:25 BST (UK)
 8)  with regard to coolmore house in carrigaline co.cork it is still in existance and maintained, ist right on carrigaline  to  crosshaven rd  with badly designed speed rams,  almost impossible to spot in darkness.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Irish Harding on Tuesday 27 April 10 20:21 BST (UK)
I checked the Carrigaline.info site and was pleased to find a picture of Coolmore Manor there.  Thanks for the followup.  Have been to Ireland, but doubt I will be coming back soon to do any personal searching.
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Looking Back on Tuesday 27 April 10 21:16 BST (UK)
The attached list of British costguards between 1841 and 1901, showing John Harding, his wife Mary and five children in northumberland.

Interestingly, there is another John Harding (born in 1840 in Co Cork) listed.  Perhaps a nephew - son of one of John's brothers.  This John is n Hastings, which is on the English south coast, rather than the north


http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Coastguards/H-I.html
Title: Re: Harding, Fitzgerald
Post by: Spanrz on Wednesday 10 July 13 08:48 BST (UK)
I know this is quite a while ago, but I am related to the Newenham's in Cork. A bit distant, but my 3rd GGM is a Newenham. I've studied this family for quite a while.
Thomas Newenham inherited Coolmore back in the 1700's. His Brother Edward (Sir) is my ancestor.
Edward would have inherited Coolmore, but he didn't want it, so he bought a wife for his aging brother Thomas, so she could bear children.
What pricked my ears up on this, is that I am also related to some Fitzgerald's (As my surname bears this name) in Cork too.
They were born in the City Centre of Cork back in the early 1800's (Market Lane and Dunbar St).
Do you know of the first names of these "Stonemasons"?
I have an ancestor - Fitzgerald, that was a Wheelwright, that came over to Australia.