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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Topic started by: Chrissymac22 on Sunday 10 January 10 18:56 GMT (UK)
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I have for several years been searching for information on my 3rd Great Grandfather Samuel Mcfarlane/Macfarlane.
The information I have at the moment is that he was born in 1805/6 in St Helier on Jersey. I am looking for birth/baptism details or any other information anyone can find.
In 1841 he was living in Manchester (aged 35 cabinet maker)
In 1851 living in Eccclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire (45 - Cabinet Maker).
He died in 1852 in Ecclesall Bierlow.
I can't go back any further because I don't have any have parents or any other info on him.
Can anyone help please?
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Hi
The only McFarlane mentioned around this time is:
Samuel McFarlane, baptised in St Helier 16th Dec 1804, son of Francis and Margaret McFarlane. God-parents were Edward Sea, William Sharpe and Elizabeth Le Cras.
I looked back for a marriage of Francis and Elizabeth but couldn't see one which suggest they were married elsewhere.
Stewart
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Chrissy, would his father Francis have been in the military garrison there? strange place to find a Macfarlane!.....Skoosh.
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Stewart
Thank you so much for that information, it looks like it probably is him. Not sure how I am going to go back any further though!!
Skoosh
His father (my fourth great grandfather) may very well have been in the military garrison!! Samuel's son George (my 2nd great grandfather was in the army based at Fulwood Barracks in Preston, some of his sons followed is his footsteps too. Have you found something?
Chrissy
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There is a Military Census of 1816 by General Don which I can have a look at next week.
Stewart
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Chrissy, Napoleonic Wars, the Channel Islands were stuffed with troops, why else would a Macfarlane be there? and how come they're in Lancashire, Scotland direct or via Ireland!.....Skoosh.
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Stewart
That would be great if you could have a look, thankyou!!
Skoosh
I live in Manchester, my dad, grandfather, great grandfather all lived in Manchester. My 2nd Great grandfather was from Yorkshire and 3rd Great Grandfather has is birth place as St Helier, Jersey. This is where I am stuck at the moment.
I've always told everyone my family were from Scotland, but at the moment I can find no trace of any of the Macfarlane's in Scotland or Ireland!!
Chrissy
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Hi Chrissy
I've just noticed a small typo in my last posting. General Don's list 1806 not 1816. Having said that it contained no useful information.
The Archive Centre has a list of all military personnel related births (1711 - 1817), marriages (1784 - 1805) and burials (1784 - 1805). I'm sorry to say there were no McFarlane's mentioned at all, so he probably wasn't in the army.
Stewart
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Thanks for your help with that Stewart, much appreciated.
Does anyone know of any websites where I can find anymore information on my ancesters in Jersey - otherwise I'm stuck and can't get any further back, and this is the most important branch of my family tree to me, as it is my surname.
Chrissy
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Would anyone know if the 1841 Census in Jersey would have been taken on the same day as in England?
I have found a Samuel Mcfarlain in Jersey with two children, Ann (7) George (2) which would fit in with my Samuel his son George was born in 1839 and although I don't have details of an Ann, his wife was named Ann too BUT my Samuel is on the 1841 Census in England, so if they were taken on the same day I can rule this out.
To confuse things a little further, I have found a Samuel Macfarlane - a negro on a Slave Register in 1817 in Jamaica - could this be my Samuel Macfarlane?
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The 1841 Census of England, Wales, Scotland, Channel Islands and Isle of Man was taken on the night of 6 June according to Ancestry.
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Hi
To continue our fb conversation: ;D
I've found records on IGI which may show that Samuel MacF was married twice ...
deb
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hello
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Deb not to confuse things can you post the things you found on here so its allin one place please
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I will Toni ... Just got to gather al the facts LOL
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Okay ...
1851
Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire
Saml MacFarlin (sic) head mar 46 cabt maker b Jersey
Ann wife 48 b ashton, Lancs?
Catherine dau 20 b Chesterfield
George son 12 b Liverpool
Char dau 8 B Liverpool ..she is Charlotte
1841
Lancashire, Liverpool
Cookson Street
Ann McFarland (sic) 38, yes
Lawrence 13, yes
Samuel 11
Catherine 11
George C 2, yes
Samuel MacFarlan (sic) is working in Manchester in 1841.
IGI (Non Conformist records) has Catherine baptised as the daughter of Samuel and Mary
Catharine Macfarlane
bapt 02 May 1830
ELDER YARD PRESBY ,CHESTERFIELD,DERBY,ENGLAND
DOB 08 Apr 1830
Other children to Samuel and Mary, in Chesterfield:
Francis Macfarland
bapt 12 Nov 1826
DOB 04 Oct 1826
mother's name: Mary Holmes
Samuel Macfarlane
bapt 02 May 1830
DOB 25 May 1828
Jane Macfarlane
bapt 20 May 1832
DOB 02 May 1832
death date: 28 Jun 1832
Samuel Macfarlane = Mary Holmes
20 Aug 1825
Saint Mary,Nottingham
Mary dies in 1832 and Samuel has children with 2nd Ann ...I need to find those records again ...
will be back
deb
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Deb
Where were you able to find the following information?
Other children to Samuel and Mary, in Chesterfield:
Francis Macfarland
bapt 12 Nov 1826
DOB 04 Oct 1826
mother's name: Mary Holmes
Samuel Macfarlane = Mary Holmes
20 Aug 1825
Saint Mary,Nottingham
Mary dies in 1832
I have found all the other stuff on familysearch and ancestry but can't find the above anywhere
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The marriage is on family search, it comes up if you search the details using mary's name
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Hi Chris
I found them on familysearch, Non conformist records.
I wonder if this is the first child with 2nd wife Ann :
Frances Macfarlane d/o Samuel and Ann
chr 16 Feb 1834
Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Mary Macfarlane
burial 08 Jul 1832, Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Now I'm having a problem finding Francis 1826
will be back
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Where did Francis go? I can't find the record either ..I must be going mad!!!!!!!!!! :-X
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I can't see the first one either ???
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OK its quite long and boring:~
BMD in the Channel Islands
Statutory registrations of births, Anglican marriages and deaths in Guernsey, Jehou and Hern date from 1840 and dissenters marriages in Guernsey have been registered voluntarily since 1919. The indexed records are held in the Royal Court House in St Peter Port and you can search these yourself for a fee, but phone first for opening hours and charges.
Copies of the indexes and records of Births and Deaths up to 1981 indexes to marriages from 1841 - 1966 and marriage records 1841-1966 are available on microfilm in the Priaulx Library in St Peter Port. You can inspect microfilm copies of the birth indexes and registers 1840-1966 death indexes and registers 1840-1963, marriage indexes 1841-1966 and registers 1841-1901 in family history centres where you may have to pay a small charge to hire them in. the civil registration indexes from 1842-1969 are also available on microfilm in the Society of Genealogists. the weddings before 1919 and deaths earlier that 1963 are indexed under each ten parishes, married women dying before 1949 are listed under their maiden names.
registers of Births and deaths in Alderney from 1850 and of marriages since 1886 are preserved in the registry of Births, Deaths, Companies, Land and Marriages in St Anne whilst the registration on Alderney since 1925 are housed in the Royal Court House, St peter Port Guernsey. There is a gap in registrations between 1940 and 1945 during the period of German occupation ,a and someother records no longer survive before 1945 because they were left behind at the time of the evacuation and were probably burnt. Mrs E Mignot of St Martins has transcribed all the islands entries and you are advised to write directly to her for any searches. The Priaulx Library holds microfilm copies of birth registrations up to August 1885 and of Death registrations 1850-1855 & 1907-1925
If you have ancestors who came from Sark the civil registration of births and deaths only started there in 1915 and of marriages in 1925 you can search for entries in eh duplicate registers in the Royal Court House in St peter Port. the original records are kept in Greffe in Sark.
Civil registrations of BMD began in Jersey in August 1842 the records are in the custody of the Superintendent Registrar in St Helier there are limited public search facilities so phone first if you plan to visit. a five year pre paid search can be undertaken by staff if you an provide the date of the relevant event and the name of the person you are after. Copies of indexes to 1900 are available in the Lord Coutanche Library in St Helier (www.societe-jersiaise.org) you can search the catalouge online all the indexes compiled by meners of the Channel Islands Family Histroy Society are kept on the open shelves in Jersey Archive,also in St Helier (www.jerseyheritagetrust.org) you will need a readers ticket to gain admission research assistance is available in both venues.
the certificates are similar in content to those of England and Wales though marriage certs contain the person birthplace.
some indexed BMD between 1831-1958 in the Channel Islands are included in the indexed Registrar Generals Miscellaneous Non-statutory Foreign Returns which are available in the Family Records Centre, The National Archives and for a small hire fee in family history centres. The IGI is also worth consulting
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I promise I didn't make him up! :-\ ::)
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Nominally the Channel Islands belong to the diocese of Winchester, but local Church courts have jurisdiction over peoples personal estates and the civil court over their landed property. The original and registered copies of witnessed wills and of administration grants in the commisionary court of the Bishop of Winchester in the Bailiwick of Guernsey, concerning personalty in Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, Hern and Jethou from 1660 to the present day are in the custody of the Bureau des Connetables, in St Peter Port, Separate wills, in which realty could be devised before two jurats of the Royal Court after 1841, are taken to the Royal Court of Guernsey in St Peter Port for approval and registration. all of the above registered and original wills are indexed. similar wills and administrations grants regarding land on Aderney after 1949 are preserved in the island Court house together with a few probates after 1946 this is because all previous records were destroyed during WW2
Land on Sark is not disposable by will, it descends instead to the next heir as far as the fifth degree of kinship (the common ancestor being the GGGGrandparent) and failing this it reverts to the Seigneur. A widow has a right of dower to a third of her late husbands land no land can be disposed of by will on either Hern or Jethou.
Jersey wills were proved in the Ecclesiastical Court of he Dean of Jersey until 25 May 1949. Original wills from about 1660 onwards enrolled copies between 1714 & 1734 and after 1775 and grants of letters of administrations from 1848 are int eh custody of eh jersey archive up to 1948 and later records are in the Judicial Greffe in the Royal Court of jersey. Before 1851 real estate could not be willed in Jersey so separate wills disposing of personalty and of realty are common. The wills relating to land are filed and recorded in the Public registry Office in the Royal Court of Jersey whilst both Personalty and realty are located in the Judicial Greffe. The Registry is not open to the public but searches can be undertaken for a fee.
the indexes from 160-1847 and calendars from 1848 until 1960 in the Jersey Archive relate to both the original and registered copies of wills and include references to the latter wills bequeathing both personalty and realty separate calendars record the administration grants after 1848. you can trawl the index to jersey wills athttp://jerseyheritagetrust.org microfilmed copies of both the indexes and will f personalty and realty up to 1964 can be hires for a small fee to inspect in family history centres.
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the IGI is worth trawling through first for register extracts of baptisims and marriages of Channel Islanders. This will tell you in which parishes you should be looking for full information. Don't forget to find out from the accompanying list which parishes, events and periods are covered by the index.
the first surviving parochial registration in Jersey dates from 1542, in Guernsey in 1563, Sark 1570 and Alderney 1657 although there are a few earlier entries after 1628
in Jersey the rector if each of the 12 Anglican parishes has custody of its registers of baptisms, marriage and burial up to 1842 after which copies have been lodged with the Superintendent Registrar Indexed manuscript copies of the registers are kept by Societe jersiaise in the Lord Coutanche Library, together with copies of the Channel Islands Family History Society Indexes to entries in these and in he registers if the Methodist, independent and Roman Catholic congregations up to the same date.
In Gurnsey you can examine microfilmed copies of the registers of each of its ten parishes of Alderney and of Sark in the Priaulx Library. Copies are preserved by the Island Archives Service in St Peter Port. Details about Roman Catholic residents are preserved among the records of the Bishop of Portsmouth, on the mainland, and a transcript of the baptisim, marriages and burials of native Channel Islanders at the 'French Church' in Southampton is in the library of the Society of Genealogists this runs from 1567 until the 18th century
it is worth looking for BMD of Channel Islanders between 1831 and 1958 in the indexed microfilmed copies of the Registrar Generals Miscellaneous Non-statutory Foreign Returns which you can inspect in the National Archives in the Family Records Centre and pay to hire in to search in a family history centre near you.
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this is the full record for Francis from Familysearch:
Francis Macfarland, Male
baptism/christening date: 12 Nov 1826
baptism/christening place: BENNS GARDEN OR RENSHAW STREET PRESBYTERIAN OR UNILIVERP,LIVERPOOL,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
DOB 04 Oct 1826
father's name: Samuel Macfarland
mother's name: Mary Holmes
indexing project (batch) number: C08645-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 0560885 (RG4 1481), 0560885 (RG4 2170
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I was looking in Chesterfield! :-[
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That should give Chrissy some ideas Toni
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Oh My ... Sorry everyone ...I put Chesterfield when it was Liverpool .... Don't you be embarrassed Jen ...It's me that should be!!!!
:-[ :-[
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will be back tomorrow x
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Hi
The only McFarlane mentioned around this time is:
Samuel McFarlane, baptised in St Helier 16th Dec 1804, son of Francis and Margaret McFarlane. God-parents were Edward Sea, William Sharpe and Elizabeth Le Cras.
I looked back for a marriage of Francis and Elizabeth but couldn't see one which suggest they were married elsewhere.
Stewart
do we know if these god parents are any relation to either Francis or Margaret ?
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the oldest Elizabeth Le Cras i can see on the 1841 channel isalnd census is born circa 1811 (+/- 4 years) St Helier so obviously not her as she cannot be a god parent beforeshe was bon and also she is presumably married (relationships are not given in 1841) to a James Le Cras, so Le Cras would not be her maiden name.
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What are the Scottish naming patterns? .... If Samuel's first son was named Francis (1826) it may fit with the baptism of Samuel s/o Francis. ie: Sam named his son after his dad.
will search for more.
deb
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Going back to what we have:
1841
Lancashire, Liverpool
Cookson Street
Ann McFarland (sic) 38, yes
Lawrence 13, yes ...where is his christening? and where does he dissappear to?
Samuel 11 .... christened 2 May 1830, born 25 May 1828, Chesterfield
Catherine 11....christened 2 May 1830, born 8 Apr 1830 ditto
George C 2, yes
Samuel and Catherine christened the same date , birth days different! Same age on 1841 :-\
Where is Francis b 1826?
I've found a Samuel but he's born in Liverpool circa 1829... maybe Samuel thought he was b Liverpool as he had lived there for a while.
In 1851
Ecclesall Bierlow
64 back Lane?
Wm South , head, mar, 52, edge tool maker?, b ?? Yorks
Sar, wife, 50, Shefd …Sheffield?
Josp, son, unm, 26, edge tool striker b ditto
SAML MacFarlane, son-in-law, widr, 22, French polisher and app. B LIVERPOOL
Samuel M = Mary Ann South in 1848 Ecclesfield Barlow
vol 22 pg 83
So Samuel snr is b 1806ish, Jersey ...ends up having sons Francis (1826) and Lawrence (1828) b Liverpool, moves to Chesterfield has three more children Samuel (1828), Catherine(1830) and Jane (b and d 1832), then moves back to Liverpool and has George (1839) and Charlotte (1843).
But how can he have Lawrence and Samuel in the same year ? It's possible I suppose unless Lawrence's age is off in the 1841.
Chrissy ...do you have Ann's maiden name?
I wonder what George's middle initial "C" stand's for.
deb
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i wonder if Samuel Catherines ages were rounded in the 1841 census ?
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Births Mar 1839
Macfarlane George West Derby 20 871
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these look as if they are in the same household in 1841
James McCarney 30
Jane McCarney 30
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Hi Toni
I saw the McCarneys but forgot to investigate them! :-[
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i can't find Lawrence after or before 1841
and i can't find a suitable marriage for Ann & Samuel -maybe they didn't ?
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I Know ...Lawrence just disappears. I tried him under Lau*, no luck !
I don't even think I could find a death for him. ...Can you recheck, Toni?
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Lancs BMD gives mmn. but West Derby is not indexed in the years we want :-\
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no i can't find a death maybe he sailed to America / Canada ?
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well i've found what i think is Charlotte, George and maybe Catherine in 1861
Ecclesall Bierlow
Jas Bartholomew 41 head
Catherine Bartholomew 31 wife
Maria Bartholomew 20 daughter
Jim W Bartholomew 5 Months grandson
George Macfarlane 21
Charlotte Macfarlane 19 both boarders
Jane Greenwood 22 visitor
William Manifield 14 apprentice
RG 9; 3470; 98; 18
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i can't find a birth for Charlotte in the BMD's :-\
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these look as if they are in the same household in 1841
James McCarney 30
Jane McCarney 30
Name: James McCarney
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Jane Smith
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1832
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
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UK, Licences of Parole for Female Convicts, 1853-1871, 1883-1887
Jane Greenwood
Age: 27
thus born abt 1839
Date Convicted: 1 Jul 1863
Court Convicted: County of Lancaster, Sessions, Preston, Lancashire
Convicted Of: Larceny from the person: stealing a pocket handkerchief
Sentence: 4 years penal servitude
Licence Number: 2636
Date of Licence: 24 Apr 1866
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I only have answers to a few of your questions: In my records I have Samuels wife's name as Ann Elizabeth Leech married in 1833 in Ashover Derbyshire, obviously this is after some of the children were born, so I'm not 100% sure this is them.
I also have been unable to find anything at all for Lawrence apart from on the 1841 Census.
The son Samuel who married Mary Ann South, then went on to marry Elizabeth Hickling. He was a Methodist Minister and moved to New Zealand. When wife No. 2 passed away he married Eva Watson and they had four children. He passed away in 1898 and was buried in Adlington Cemetery where there is a photograph of his gravestone. This has recently been damaged with the storms etc in New Zealand.
George's middle name is Charles.
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Hi
I think only the two children, George and Charlotte belong to Ann.
Do you have George's birth cert to confirm Ann's maiden name?
Lawrence ... :-\ :-\ ...he vanishes!
deb
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Hi
No I haven't George's birth certificate, but I will send for it once I've checked the other two people who are tracing the same branch to see if they have it.
Hmm I wonder what happened to Lawrence, no death details, nothing he disappears into thin air ::) ::)
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I wonder why we can't find a birth record for Charlotte?
Okay so we have these children:
Francis (1826) Liverpool .....no trace
Lawrence (1828) Liverpool.....vanishes
Samuel (1828), Chesterfield ...you have his details
Catherine(1830) ditto...marries Bartholomew
Jane (born and died 1832) ditto
George Charles (1839) Liverpool
Charlotte (1843) Liverpool.
Do you have the details for George and Charlotte?
Who do you come from?
deb :)
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I have marriage (1861) and death (1913) details for Charlotte but no birthday.
Regarding George, I have details of his marriage (1862) also his wherabouts from 1841 - 1871 then he disappears abroad, his was in the army, I think in India but I am unable to find out where as I don't have worldwide subscriptions. George is my second Great Grandfather. I have a death in 1915 of a George although not 100% sure it's him.
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records of the army in india are held at the british library :)
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Hi Chrissy
Is your George the one with wife Maria and children living in Fulwood barracks in 1871?
Children:
Florence , 7 b Sheffield
Elizabeth, 5 b Kildare Ireland
Charles , 1 b Aldershot Hampshire
Francis , under 6 months b Preston Lancashire
I have found Charles' attestation papers ..he joined when he was 14 years 6 months!!! :o
There is a lot of info in his record includes next of kin ...his mother Maria and siblings.
His full name Charles Augustus McFarlane. Signed in 1884.
Charles died in 1906 ...it states that his father is deceased ... so it looks like your death for George in 1915 may be incorrect.
Let me know that this is your family.
deb
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I see George married Maria Bartholomew who is his sister's step daughter 8)
still trying to spot them in 1881 ...Charles also gives more sibling in his records.
Brother: Francis
Sisters: Elizabeth Anne, Sarah Anne and Catherine
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Hi Deb
Yes this is my family. Both their parents passed away and when Catherine married James Bartholomew she took George and Charlotte with her and then George and Maria married which was James daughter. In 1881 I then have Catherine living in America with another husband (surname) Claytom and two children. Then in 1891 Catherine was a widow living with her sister and family Charlotte Pass in Ecclesall Bierlow.
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Hi Chrissy ...did you know about the other girls as recorded on Charles' Attestation Papers?
I see Maria's death but George was deceased before 1906 and you have his death cert for 1915 ...so it's not the correct one.
Francis is a name that keeps on being repeated ... that may point to Samuel's baptism as s/o Francis in Jersey.
Just got in ... LOL .... so doing all of this off the top of my head.
deb
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Hi Deb
I have nothing for Maria or George after 1871, it was only a guess for George's death, no firm evidence. I found a George around the same age that passed away in 1915 so it was a possibility.
Have two daughters for Charles - Sarah Ann & Evelyn Rosina. Not sure if I have his papers I will have to check tomorrow and come back to you.
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Hi Chrissy
I wish I could find them in 1881...Charles' record has quite a bit of info ... They are driving me a little insane LOL
let me know what you have ... I will keep on looking.
deb
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Hi Deb
I have Charles death in 1906 in Warrington (2nd qtr) and have a copy of his papers, saved but not printed out I must print them out for my file.
I don't have any further information than you have. They are most annoying Deb, and been driving me insane for a fair few years now. I keep putting them on the back burner and then having another go with them.
Chrissy