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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 16:30 GMT (UK)

Title: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 16:30 GMT (UK)
Hi
This photo was given to me by my Mum some time ago. She originally told me it was her Grandad on the horse, with his Dad standing by, but when I showed it to her again just the other day, she said it was her Dad, with her Grandad standing.
I reckon the horse is used for pulling carts because of the blinkers but that doesn't help me because both these ancestors could have been coal merchants when the baby was born.
So, what i'm trying to establish is; is this photo from around 1870 or 1900? I notice the unusual style of jacket worn by the man. It looks like a woollen waistcoat but with sleeves of a different fabric. Sadly, all we seem to be able to see of the lady is the length of her skirt.
Any ideas folks?
By the way, the babe on the horse is either Joseph Arch, b.1900 in Leeds or Joseph Arch b.1870 in Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire. The guy standing being either Joseph sr. or his Dad, Henry Arch b.1839 in Bloomfield, Staffs. Both of the latter two were coal merchnts at some time in their lives; Joe in Leeds and Henry in Bradford.
I'd also be happy if anyone wants to have a go at tidying it up please.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating this photo please
Post by: still_looking on Sunday 10 January 10 16:53 GMT (UK)
Assuming that the couple in the photo lived in the house behind could you work out whose house it was? If you could establish that location you might be able to rule out possible dates and end up with a combination that fitted.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 16:56 GMT (UK)
Yep, point taken, still_looking. Thanks, I'll give it a go.
Any other offers?
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: marionjl on Sunday 10 January 10 19:17 GMT (UK)
Had a go at cleaning it up, hope that helps

Marion
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 10 January 10 19:24 GMT (UK)
Is this an actual black & white photo, or is it sepia that's been scanned in b&w?

Always scan in colour, could be very important!

Also...any printing, anything at all, on the back? Everything's a clue.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 19:29 GMT (UK)
Thank you Marion. That looks much better.
China, I think it's sepia and yes, I scanned it in b&w. Never done this before. should I re-do it in colour?
Sadly, there's nothing on the back except for the pare stuck on to hold it together.
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 10 January 10 19:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Geoff...yes, you should rescan in colour, at 300dpi, for restoration as a colour scan gives more tones to work with.

I'm going to guess at the 1900 date, looking at the woman's skirt and also the man's vest, as I think I see the watch chain inserted into a separate hole, a style that became popular in 1888. Hard to tell, though, and you may get other opinions...

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 19:45 GMT (UK)
OK China. Will do. and thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Sunday 10 January 10 19:51 GMT (UK)
Ok, thanks to China's advice, here's a colour version of the original sepia photo.
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Sunday 10 January 10 22:11 GMT (UK)
phew   had a go at restore for you   

xin
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: terry h on Sunday 10 January 10 22:17 GMT (UK)
Gave it a go

Terry
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Sunday 10 January 10 22:57 GMT (UK)
Rabbit wuz here x
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Geoff Crowther on Monday 11 January 10 09:01 GMT (UK)
Thank you all so much for your valiant efforts with my really tired old photo.
excellent results.
Xin, liked your photo but I think you might have misinterpreted the big gap as part of the little one's clothes. It's not; the whole surface of the photo is missing there. Please accept that as constructuive criticism as I can see you might have thought it was a dress or similar. I trust you won't think I'm being ungrateful.

Any other thoughts about the date folks?

Thanks again to all.
Geoff
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 11 January 10 09:32 GMT (UK)
Not at all I wondered if it was a blanket or something.... I am glad you explained   I realised it was wrong when I saw Terry's great restore
there you go --- changed it

Thanks Xin
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Monday 11 January 10 16:30 GMT (UK)
Gave it a go

Terry

Hi Terry,

Those are brilliant!

I cannot make head or tail of the bits stuck on!

My guesstimate would be 1900-1910 +or- 5

Rabbit B  ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 11 January 10 17:27 GMT (UK)
hope this helps rabbit... ;D ;D

(will be removed a.s.a.p)

xin
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Monday 11 January 10 17:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks Xinia,

Not that I will be able to do this but I might have a go!


Rabbit B   :-\
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: chinakay on Monday 11 January 10 17:39 GMT (UK)
Xin! ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 11 January 10 17:59 GMT (UK)
Yea   china got it
!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Niksmum on Monday 11 January 10 19:58 GMT (UK)
 :o :o :o :o :o ::) ::) ::) :P :P :P ;D ;D

Irene
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 12 January 10 10:57 GMT (UK)
Its ok Irene   they are having me sent away very soon....

xin
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 12 January 10 16:38 GMT (UK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

 ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Finley 1 on Tuesday 12 January 10 17:01 GMT (UK)
absolutely great   ;D ;D ;D
xin
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Tuesday 12 January 10 23:03 GMT (UK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

 ;D

Excellent China,

But is it said 'That things spoken in jest frequently come true' so watch it Xin!

Rabbit B  8)
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Thursday 14 January 10 21:40 GMT (UK)
X

I may be gone for some time........................
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: rancegal on Friday 15 January 10 19:10 GMT (UK)

My input is that the horse is not big enough to pull a coal cart; it's more the size for a 'pony and trap'.
     My own grandfather was a blacksmith-and-farrier and he used one to go to outlying farms.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Friday 15 January 10 22:34 GMT (UK)

My input is that the horse is not big enough to pull a coal cart; it's more the size for a 'pony and trap'.
     My own grandfather was a blacksmith-and-farrier and he used one to go to outlying farms.

Hi rancegirl,

This looks like a cob to me and they are much stronger than they look, my estimation about 14.2hh possibly 14.3hh Welsh cob

I am going by the adult holding the baby and the man holding the animal. although the head looks a little fine.  I reckon it would be capable of pulling a cart.

I have driven ponies like these in carts.

Rabbit B  ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 18 January 10 18:50 GMT (UK)
Whew!
Great fun!
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: chinakay on Monday 18 January 10 19:08 GMT (UK)
Oh, nice, Paula!
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: cad on Monday 18 January 10 20:03 GMT (UK)
I wonder if anyone else had the same initial thought as me... isn't that a pit pony? Certainly looks too small to be pulling a coal merchant's cart and I'm certain I've seen blinkers like that on pit ponies.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 18 January 10 20:45 GMT (UK)
Thanks china.

I was looking at those blinkers, cad. I don't think I've seen any quite like that before.
He could be a retired pit pony, looks as though he has seen a lot of hard work in his life.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Monday 18 January 10 22:59 GMT (UK)
Whew!
Great fun!

That one Paula is superb!

When I look at the original you have certainly done that one justice!  Well done!

I wonder what the man had in his hand to make the pony stand that still with head down like that!

Rabbit B  ;D
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 18 January 10 23:04 GMT (UK)
Well not chocolates, ;) but something tasty for a horse, perhaps.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Monday 18 January 10 23:35 GMT (UK)
Well Paula,
 
Most horses love peppermints, they had mint humbugs in Victorian England  

They certainly had sugar cones too, those were broken up into sugar lumps, not square as we know them of course!

Maybe they had got a small piece of one of those!  ???

But it was most likely a carrot 

Rabbit B  ;D

Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 18 January 10 23:50 GMT (UK)
I made sugar cones for the kitchen of the Victorian Doll's House I built, Rabbit.

So THAT'S why the toy horse is always looking through the window ;D

Agree on the carrot though. Something tough that would keep him busy and take his mind off other things.
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Monday 18 January 10 23:55 GMT (UK)
I made sugar cones for the kitchen of the Victorian Doll's House I built, Rabbit.

So THAT'S why the toy horse is always looking through the window ;D

Agree on the carrot though. Something tough that would keep him busy and take his mind off other things.

Well I am blowed Paula, I have only learned about those in the last 1/2 via the usual search engine!   ::)

It would have to be something strong smelling to make him keep his head still that long, my money is on the carrot too!

Rabbit B  ;)
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Wednesday 20 January 10 20:53 GMT (UK)
Just couldn't resist a second go...

I'd put the date around 1905, year or so either way.
I think the waistcoat is quite ordinary for its time and the man wears a shirt under it. You need one of the clothes experts to be sure.

I've got a similar problem with one of my photos. My Mum, sadly no longer with us, stabbed a finger at the photo and said 'That's Eliza Ann.'
Her finger covered several little ladies in the group. I wish now I had asked 'WHICH?'
But at least I know my most troublesome ancestor is there....somewhere.... :-\
Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: Rabbit B on Wednesday 20 January 10 22:19 GMT (UK)
Just couldn't resist a second go...

I'd put the date around 1905, year or so either way.
I think the waistcoat is quite ordinary for its time and the man wears a shirt under it. You need one of the clothes experts to be sure.

I've got a similar problem with one of my photos. My Mum, sadly no longer with us, stabbed a finger at the photo and said 'That's Eliza Ann.'
Her finger covered several little ladies in the group. I wish now I had asked 'WHICH?'
But at least I know my most troublesome ancestor is there....somewhere.... :-\

Hi Paula,

What a superb job you have made of that!  Well done!

I would think that Geoff  will be very pleased with that one!  I have dated it earlier on and was about to repeat myself,  ::)

This one was well beyond me, so I am sorry to say that I binned it!  Good on you Paula, Xinia and Terry for doing a great job on a difficult restore!

Oh whoops Marion so sorry, I nearly forgot you!  Well done too

Rabbit B  ;D

Title: Re: Help dating and/or restoring this photo please
Post by: PaulaToo on Wednesday 20 January 10 22:48 GMT (UK)
thanks rabbit, can't talk, onna phone.