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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: karenoz on Friday 08 January 10 03:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
looking for a birth of james henderson parents john and jane (hall )in dunedin ,between 1860-1880.
sorry not much to go on.
thanks
karen
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Hi Karen,
This looks a likely James
1879/18293 Henderson James Barrowman to Jane and John
born 04/12/1879
Cheers Janette
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Hi Karen :)
Have you already tried the online birth index ?
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home
Unfortunately the names of parents don't (usually) show on the index, until about 1873-76 .... and of course, as you probably already know, we don't have the luxury with this online index, of knowing where the birth was registered. :(
Lu
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The "James Barrowman HENDERSON" died in New Zealand - 1948.
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yes thats as close i come to too. wander how i can see if he is the right one. i know the james i am looking for was born in dunedin.
this family could be right,as i found his james borrowman bother ,thomas herbert is buried in helensille in 1949 .
i know james lived in that area in 1897. so this could be the right family.
thanks
karen
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thanks Lucy, so its not my james i am looking for, mine died before 1916.
thanks
karen
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Hi Karen
Can I just ask please, did you have an earlier query about this James HENDERSON ... I seem to recall the name (something to do with a marriage / re-marriage) ?
Lu
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yes he was married to a lilly vercoe in 1897 and died before 1916 as she remarried at this date.
he seems to of drop out of sight, we where lead to believe he had being killed in a bush acc, i have tried reseaching the old papers but nothing so far.
only thing to try and track down his parents or his siblings if any.
thanks on any help
karen
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Hi Karen
Ok ... found the previous thread.
So he was supposedly aged 33 when he married in 1897 ... born circa 1864 ? (But you think this age at marriage may not be right ?)
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yes she was only 16yrs , and i dont think he was very nice man, (from what was pass down about him )she was the eldest child.
but saying all that we just dont know,the whys.
thanks
karen
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Yes, I'd remembered she was very young. ;)
Hmm ... just having a think about how best to help with this.
The peculiar thing about these marriages between young girls and older men, is very often the man "still told fibs" about his correct age. !! (He may have been even older than 33). ::) ;D
Will have a look at the microfiche index in the next day or so and see if there's a James HENDERSON birth reg'd. at Dunedin.
* I'm guessing you don't have birth printouts for any of his children, which might help clarify his birthyear ?
Lu
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hmm hadnt thought of that, i try and see if i can find one ,from other relatives.
i hate to think her parents would of allowed her to marry a man so old. seeing there age,1855 & 1859,hmm 5yrs younger than her mother.
thanks
karen
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..... i found his james borrowman bother ,thomas herbert is buried in helensille in 1949 .
i know james lived in that area in 1897. so this could be the right family.
Hi Karen
Just sidetracking for a moment. RE: the Thomas HENDERSON buried at Helensville died 1941 aged 60 years - born circa 1881. [Cemetery record shows him as "Thompson Herbert HENDERSON" - on death index he is "Herbert Thompson HENDERSON". ]
There is also a death - 1949 - for a Thomas Herbert HENDERSON aged 72 years, born circa 1877 - this one matches more closely, the child born 1877 to "a John and Jane". [A probate record available, shows he was a timber worker, resident at Mangakino and Cambridge].
Lu
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hmm you thinking this james barrowman might still be our man then,who died 1948. (sounds like its all pointing to him)
that would mean they would of divorced, how would i be able to check this out.
should i just order a Death C of james barrowman.
thanks Lucy
karen
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Hi Karen
Nah, nah ... I don't think the "James Barrowman" one is yours. ;) [I'm sure your one is just "plain" James HENDERSON - no middle name).
Had just posted the info re: Thomas Herbert / Thompson Herbert" to show that they were two different people and that Thompson Herbert HENDERSON although buried in the area where your James lived, was less likely to be a son of "a John and Jane HENDERSON":
But don't splash out on buying any printouts (certs.) just yet. :D
I'll check the death microfiche also (for place of registration) - have narrowed deaths down to a handful of likelies.
Lu
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Hi again Karen
"Elsie Lillian HENDERSON" was the last child of Lilly Jane and James ... that's right, isn't it ? :D
Her birth was (actually) 1904 (rather than 1905).
[Born on 1 July 1904].
* Do you know her place of birth ?
* And can you tell me where Lilly Jane married in 1916 ?
[Had she moved to another district ? ]
This info might make it easier to find James.
Cheers
Lu
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yes you right on dates of elsie lillian, i am pretty sure they lived in dargaville area.
i have the Eileen rachael marriage C as her being born at kaihu.
karen
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OK ... will check out further and get back to you.
Re: "possible divorce" : Have you (or family members) got either of the marriage printouts (1897 or 1916) for Lilly Jane ?
If there had been a divorce, then it would have been noted (probably in the form of a stamp) on the 1897 cert.
["Divorce date" (or some reference to a "divorce") would also have been noted on Lilly Jane's 1916 marriage cert. ]
It was a pretty expensive exercise to obtain a divorce in those days ... so I think Lilly Jane, was more likely to have been a widow. ;)
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James HENDERSON - Births
1863 - registered at Dunedin (folio # 538)
1865 - Picton (# 348)
1865 - Dunedin (# 628)
1869 - Christchurch (# 906)
1869 - Hokitika (# 725)
1870 - Invercargill (# 1422)
[Note: Folio numbers in italics are from the microfiche record
- they are not relevant when ordering printouts from the BDM online historical records source.]
Hi Karen
Just these two "James HENDERSON" births registered at Dunedin. I've only searched on "James" as there is no evidence that he had a second christian name ("James" being shown on registrations for marriage and births of his children).
Please note that if you were to purchase either of these birth records, that you would only get very minimal information : "When/where born and name of child - Father's name / Mother's name and maiden surname / informant's description, signature and address / date registered. " [Unfortunately these early NZ records are not like some of those in OZ where you sometimes get "previous issue" listed - so they would not help you in a search for siblings of James. Also these pre-1874 records cost $ NZ26. ;D]
Do you want to keep looking for the death of James ? (Let me know).
Lu
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thanks Lu,
think it would be better to try find his death as this hopefully will confirm what we know,his parents john & jane (Hall).henderson.
or order the youngest child birth Elise Henderson b 1904-1989 she married michael morgan in 1926.
a relative ,who has just got intouch with me,has already order the birth of the james henderson b 1863 and was the wrong one. so that only leaves the 1965 one.
is there anyway we can see school rolls , i know i have the CD pack away in nz. ??? not here in oz
thanks karen
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Hi Karen
I'm still sorting through the death info for James HENDERSON's ... trying to eliminate a few. :D WIll get back to you shortly on that.
* Do you know James' occupation ?
is there anyway we can see school rolls , i know i have the CD pack away in nz. ??? not here in oz
The Hocken library (Otago) has lots of school records info.
http://thecommunityarchive.org.nz/node/67754
Lu
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Ooops ... just meant to ask again ...
* Do you know where Lilly Jane's second marriage took place ?
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not sure,but think it was auckland, she married william john devin m 1916,b1873-1933 she then re married again herbert james Dooley b 1899 not sure in rotoroa.
and i think she had another child to this guy.
thanks
karen
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Hi Karen
DEATHS - James HENDERSON
There were 23 "hits" for deaths for persons named James HENDERSON (or James + second christian name) - between 1903 and 25 May 1916 (when Lilly Jane remarried).
After some "fluffin' around" :D , I've been able to eliminate a good many - but this was based on the supposition that your James HENDERSON was born somewhere between 1865 and 1877.
That then leaves > >
1916 / 3309 - HENDERSON - James - 50 years (bc 1866)
[Death reg'd. in Christchurch - can't find cemetery record].
1916 / 1168 - HENDERSON - James - (about) 39 years (bc 1877)
[Buried at Napier - occupation: joiner]
ALSO ... this one (but born circa 1863) ??
1912 / 2180 - HENDERSON - James - 49 years
[Death reg'd. at Christchurch]
Could find only two who died in Auckland area (they were too old) ... and there were no deaths in the time frame, registered north of Auckland (e.g. Dargarville etc. ) :
???
But anyway ... see next post. :D
~ Lu
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DEATHS - James HENDERSON
You might like to consider this one ? ;D
Burial is at Christchurch - cemetery record states "born Scotland" ??
However, occupation is listed as "forester" ?
[Somewhere I seem to remember you saying that "James possibly died about 1905 ... in a bush accident". Forester / bush accident ??? ]
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/
HENDERSON - James
Died : 1 October 1905
Age: 35 years (bc 1970)
Born : Scotland
[Always possible that info provided by informant to death, is not strictly correct. ]
~ Lu
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thanks Lu, i think i forgot to put down that he was a labour, and his father was a carter.
so it sounds more like the first one b 1866 is the closest.
none any earlier than 1916 , as the grandaughter is sure it was closer to 1906 his death. but then that might be what she was told.
thanks heaps
karen
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wow thats sounds promising
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none any earlier than 1916 ,
Hi
Yes, there was ... but have managed (thru various means) to rule them all out. :D
For me ... yep, I think the 1905 death is looking best option.
~ Lu
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hi, i just gone through the dunedin cemetries and there isnt really a match for james parents,
there is a john D1892 age 60yrs a carpenter and born in scotland.
they must of left the area.
not having much luck here.
karen
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Hi Karen
Yes, I'd had a quick look around for the parents too and couldn't see anything that looked promising. :(
For Lilly and James' (1897) wedding - have you got the copy of the certificate ... or the "printout" ??
The printout will have (should have) names of the witnesses to the marriage. * Can you tell me who they were ?
Just a bit of "shot in the dark" .... but you never know (I've had great results with my own searches at times, by following up on witnesses).
* Also, where did they marry ? (Was it a private residence ? If so, address could be helpful).
Lu
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hi Lu,
have found a john henderson married 6.3.1862 jane hall in kirknewtown,northumberland,eng. on family search LSD.
gives there ages as john b 1838 and jane b 1836
karen
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sorry i am still waiting to hear back on james marriage, from the relative who has it.
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hi Lu
They married in Dargaville and the witnesses were FP Burton of Dargaville (Teacher) and Georgine Absolum of Dargaville (domestic duties). The registrar was A Absolum. I am fairly certain that Lily and James eloped to get married and she was, according to all records, pregnant with Florence at the time. After looking on BDM it looks as though the registrar’s name was Abraham Absolum and it was either his wife (Georgina) or daughter (Dorothy Georgine) who was the 2nd witness. Lily and James probably didn’t even know these people
karen
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have found a john henderson married 6.3.1862 jane hall in kirknewtown,northumberland,eng. on family search LSD.
gives there ages as john b 1838 and jane b 1836
Hi Karen
Mmmm ... well, it looks a good possibilty. :)
Have you got access to UK census 1871, to see if this couple are "still around" ?? [That might help to rule them "in " or "out". ] ;)
Lu
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I am fairly certain that Lily and James eloped to get married ....
Lily and James probably didn’t even know these people ...
Hi Karen
Yep ... don't think in this case, that the marriage witnesses names are of any help. :(
Hmm ... so if they eloped ... and Lilly was only 16 at the time, then she was probably still living with her family ?
And James HENDERSON has very likely met up with her in her home town ? Perhaps he was working there (perhaps his parents were residing in that place too ?)
* Can you tell me where Lilly's family was, in or around 1897 ?
Lu
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hi Lu, yes i can go to this site http://grahambould.net/vercoe.htm
this is lilly henderson parents and sisters and brothers.
The photo on the right, of the Vercoe home at Kaihu, was taken in 1902. The names are, from left to right:
Philip Stephen b1890
Ann (nee Thomas) b1859
(front) Doris Emily b1894
(rear) Amy Olive b1888
(front) Norman Edmund b1896
(rear) Philip b1854
Annie Thomas b1893
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hi Lu, yes i can go to this site http://grahambould.net/vercoe.htm
this is lilly henderson parents and sisters and brothers.
The photo on the right, of the Vercoe home at Kaihu, was taken in 1902. The names are, from left to right:
Philip Stephen b1890
Ann (nee Thomas) b1859
(front) Doris Emily b1894
(rear) Amy Olive b1888
(front) Norman Edmund b1896
(rear) Philip b1854
Annie Thomas b1893
Hi Karen
Great website. :) Cute house ... and handsome family. :)
I'll have a look at electoral rolls / directories ... see if there's anything of interest.
Lu
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Hi Karen
Have checked electoral rolls for (far North) Dargaville area from 1896 thru to 1906 :
Electorates - Bay of Islands & Marsden & Kaipara
The only time I can find (what looks like) your James HENDERSON (h/o Lilly) is in 1900.
Bay of Islands electorate - 1900
# 1592 - HENDERSON - James - Kaihu - platelayer - R*
[*R = residential qualification]
"Platelayer" ... hmmm ... think this occupation was connected to railways ?
Also checked to see if # 1592 had been removed from roll - it wasn't.
~ Lu
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John {occ. Carter] and Jane HENDERSON
karen
You might like to add a separate request on board, for a lookup of 1881 and 1893 electoral rolls (which are on disk) .. for John and Jane ?
[In 1900 I only found at Bay of Islands - HENDERSON - John - gumdigger at Hohoura ... and a Jane at Mangonui with a Mary and Mary junior (all domestic duties). ?]
~ Lu
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Thanks Lu, its being a hard one this guy, i havent heard back from a friend who is looking up the school rolls for me,hope that will put us in the right area. or give us more leads.
thanks for that.
karen
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Have you tried the Otago Boys High School Centennial Register to see if James went to secondary school ? Most Dunedin Boys would have gone there for a year or two if they passed proficiency (- Standard 6 / Form II )
Can't find my copy at the moment after recent move but will go looking if you are looking for James in Dunedin aged 13+.
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Thanks signalhill,
i am thinking on the same track, but i have left my CD on the school rolls back in nz,so hopping someone can help me out here, this way at lest we know if his parents are still there.
karen
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Have you looked at the Otago Nominal Index contains Registered Electors 1866 to 1893 and Police Gazettte records ?
Seems to have at least 3 John Hendersons with the address of Dunedin
I have a spreadsheet which wont up load here - could convert to csv format if you're interested
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hi signalhill,
yes please i love that,if you can.
thanks
karen
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Hi Karen
Found this on paperspast
Otago Witness , Issue 458, 8 September 1860, Page 4 Article view
Shipping News.
Early in June [], the Henrietta and Robert Henderson, [was] despatched from the Clyde by the agents of the Provincial Government of Otago, with full complements of passengers. Besides those assisted by the agents, a large number not only paid their own passages, but took out with them considerable sums of money.
ARRIVALS.
3 Sept 1860 Arrived in Dunedin from Glasgow aboard the Henrietta & Robert Henderson
..............John Barrowman and wife........... William Henderson, Agnes Henderson,..............John Henderson and wife
DEATHS [on Board]........ June 26, Ann Henderson aged 20 years, of scarlatina...........
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Hi Karen
csv is not acceptable either so will try to see what can be done in txt
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Nah, nah ... I don't think the "James Barrowman" one is yours. ;) [I'm sure your one is just "plain" James HENDERSON - no middle name).
Had just posted the info re: Thomas Herbert / Thompson Herbert" to show that they were two different people and that Thompson Herbert HENDERSON although buried in the area where your James lived, was less likely to be a son of "a John and Jane HENDERSON":
But don't splash out on buying any printouts (certs.) just yet. :D
I'll check the death microfiche also (for place of registration) - have narrowed deaths down to a handful of likelies.
Found this on paperspast
Otago Witness , Issue 458, 8 September 1860, Page 4 Article view
Shipping News.
Early in June [], the Henrietta and Robert Henderson, [was] despatched from the Clyde by the agents of the Provincial Government of Otago, with full complements of passengers. Besides those assisted by the agents, a large number not only paid their own passages, but took out with them considerable sums of money.
ARRIVALS.
3 Sept 1860 Arrived in Dunedin from Glasgow aboard the Henrietta & Robert Henderson
..............John Barrowman and wife........... William Henderson, Agnes Henderson,..............John Henderson and wife
DEATHS [on Board]........ June 26, Ann Henderson aged 20 years, of scarlatina...........
this then could be maybe a cousin or brothers that came out together,do you think?
karen
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Hi Karen
Struggling with conversion of spreadsheet
There are lots of Hendersons in Otago and James & Johns are common too
If James Barrowman Henderson is yours, then it is odds on that he is related to the Barrowmans on the Henrietta & Robert Henderson
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hi, no i dont think he is,but as you have his father john barrowman henderson down in the passenger list i wander if they are related to my john and jane henderson lot.
karen
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Hi Karen
John Henderson & John Barrowman are 2 separate passengers
There is also a Jane Barrowman married in NZ in 1863 to ?
Just looking at the Barrowman family as it is a lot more identifiable than Henderson.
Your James Henderson could easily not have used the Barrowman name most of his places but equally could have been plain James and not connected at all with the John and Jane Henderson family with the J B in it
The evidence does point to James Barrowman Henderson as having been born in Dunedin.
Besides the three (+?) John Hendersons in Dunedin there are at least 3 others in Otago Farming one North and one or two South of Dunedin and one on the Goldfields at Skippers (Queenstown - Arrowtown area)
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hi, ok it was just a hope ,that they may have being with the family's of hendersons all came out on the same ship,but you see no connection.
no i dont think they where farmers as its down john henderson was a carter,and son james was a labour,but we where lead to believe he work in the bush,thus him dieing of a bush accident 1900s-1906
thanks, i know this one is a bit of a head ache.
karen
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There is also a Jane Barrowman married in NZ in 1863 to ?
Just looking at the Barrowman family as it is a lot more identifiable than Henderson.
Your James Henderson could easily not have used the Barrowman name most of his places but equally could have been plain James and not connected at all with the John and Jane Henderson family with the J B in it
The evidence does point to James Barrowman Henderson as having been born in Dunedin.
Hi SignalHill
... and welcome. :)
If you look back further in this thread (page 1 - page 2 ?) you'll see that "James Barrowman HENDERSON" has already been eliminated from this search. He was born 1879 and died in 1948. [Karen is seeking a James HENDERSON who died before 1916.]
~ Lu
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sorry i am still waiting to hear back on james marriage, from the relative who has it.
Hi Karen
Did you ever get the information from this marriage cert. ?
* What was the maiden name of James' mother ?
~ Lu
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Hi Karen,
Looked for accidents / Deaths on papers past
This is in your timeframe but doesn't give much detail. Usually would find it in several papers but have only found it in one. Presumably the verdict "death by accident" or some such was given as quicly and uncotrovesially as the jury were called together. Patutahi is backcounrty 12.5 km NW of Gisborne
Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 9269, 5 October 1901, Page 2
Poverty Bay Herald. GISBORNE, SATURDAY OCT. 5. 1901. PUBLISHED EVERY EVENING.
When Mr W. A. Barton, Coroner, and Sergeant Siddells arrived at Patutahi yesterday afternoon to conduct the inquest on the body of the late James Henderson, they were enabled to proceed with their duties at once.
Constable Farmer, in whose district the sad occurrence took place, deserves every credit for the expeditious manuer in which he obtained evidence as to the manner of death and prepared for the inquest in the afternoon. The jury had been requisitioned, and the body having been taken to a central place, the. Patutahi Hotel, not the slightest delay was occasioned on the arrival of the Coroner. The inquiry commenced soon after 3 p.m., although the police were, not informed of the sad event till about 10 o'clock that morning.
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This is in your timeframe but doesn't give much detail. Patutahi is backcounrty 12.5 km NW of Gisborne
Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 9269, 5 October 1901, Page 2
Poverty Bay Herald. GISBORNE, SATURDAY OCT. 5. 1901. PUBLISHED EVERY EVENING.
.... inquest on the body of the late James Henderson,
Hi Karen
The above death relates to a ....
"James Conrad Patrick HENDERSON" - died 4 October 1901 - aged 45 years ... born circa 1856.
So not your man. ::)
~ Lu
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Hi Karen
DEATHS - James HENDERSON
There were 23 "hits" for deaths for persons named James HENDERSON (or James + second christian name) - between 1903 and 25 May 1916 (when Lilly Jane remarried).
After some "fluffin' around" :D , I've been able to eliminate a good many - but this was based on the supposition that your James HENDERSON was born somewhere between 1865 and 1877.
That then leaves > >
1916 / 3309 - HENDERSON - James - 50 years (bc 1866)
[Death reg'd. in Christchurch - can't find cemetery record].
1916 / 1168 - HENDERSON - James - (about) 39 years (bc 1877)
[Buried at Napier - occupation: joiner]
ALSO ... this one (but born circa 1863) ??
1912 / 2180 - HENDERSON - James - 49 years
[Death reg'd. at Christchurch]
Could find only two who died in Auckland area (they were too old) ... and there were no deaths in the time frame, registered north of Auckland (e.g. Dargarville etc. ) :
???
But anyway ... see next post. :D
~ Lu
DEATHS - James HENDERSON
You might like to consider this one ? ;D
Burial is at Christchurch - cemetery record states "born Scotland" ??
However, occupation is listed as "forester" ?
[Somewhere I seem to remember you saying that "James possibly died about 1905 ... in a bush accident". Forester / bush accident ??? ]
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/
HENDERSON - James
Died : 1 October 1905
Age: 35 years (bc 1970)
Born : Scotland
[Always possible that info provided by informant to death, is not strictly correct. ]
Hi Karen
I spent considerable time going through the death index and eliminating many of the James HENDERSON deaths.
So ... just offering the above again, for your re-consideration. :)
~ Lu
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hi Lu, Boy this is madding trying to find james death. you done everything, thanks.
but i think this one
HENDERSON - James
Died : 1 October 1905
Age: 35 years (bc 1970)
Born : Scotland
is the one my relative has already got and found it to be the wrong one, she says this guy died of TB age 35yrs
??? not sure where to look, still waiting to hear back on school records, hoping that way i might find a lead to weather john and jane had more children, think this is the only way i may find any answers.
very grateful for ALL the help
karen
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Hi Karen :)
"Maddening" is an understatement. :D :D
It's driving me "bonkers" too ... but I'm still nibbling away, hoping for an outcome for you. :)
Next move ?
* Have any of your rellies got the certificate (printout) for Lilly Jane's 2nd marriage in 1916 ???
There's always a chance that the date she was widowed, is on that record ?
~ Lu
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hi Lu, i am here looking at the marragie C of eileen henderson 1916 20.dec and on it has her mother lily jane vercoe,formerly henderson,now devin. i know she married devin in 1916
father down as james henderson labourer.( now i thought they would of put deceased beside that?) hmm
karen
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Hi Karen
Yeah ... unfortunately NZ certs. (not helpful like OZ ones) ... didn't record info as to whether a parent was deceased. :(
OK ... next move. :D :D
* The maiden name of James HENDERSON's mother, should be recorded on his 1897 marriage record to Lilly Jane.
Can you tell me what the maiden name is please ?
~ Lu
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Hi Lu, not sure where my relative found out his mother was jane Hall i think from james marriage C.
karen
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Doh ! I'm stupid ! :-[
Should practice what I preach ... and read back through the thread. :D
Yes, Jane - nee HALL - it's right there at beginning of the thread.
----------------------------------
It's so difficult to try and locate the parents, John and Jane HENDERSON.
I've already searched the 1881 Electoral CD for John HENDERSON ... to no avail. And 1893 CD also for John and Jane.
Both could have been deceased by either of those dates. ???
I'll try a search of the early Dunedin directories for John ... occupation "Carter". [Of course that may not have been his occupation back in the 1860's ... many chaps changed their occupations over the years as they acquired more wealth. ? ]
~ Lu
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Found OBHS Register - I think it only helps in a negative way
Dates are entrance year - around age 13
Let me know if you want any details from the body Most entries provide a "current" address and occupation also date and place of death where known
These are all the Hendersons up to 1938
Otago Boys' High School
Old Boy's Register 1863 - 1938 inclusive
Published Dunedin 1953
Index P 342 column 1 (scanned with quick check)
Hende. Keith B. 1942
Henderson, Allan 1923
Henderson, Allen J. M. 1931
Henderson, Angus 1903
Henderson, Art. J. 1915
Henderson, Bruce K. 1931
Henderson, Chas. S. 1928
Henderson, C. B. 1929
Henderson, C. S. 1933
Henderson, David R. 1926
Henderson, Eric C. 1924
Henderson, F. McG. 1917
Henderson, Fred. C. 1924
Henderson: Fred. I. 1944
Henderson, Geo. 1934
Henderson, Geo. A. 1917
Henderson, Geo. A. 1884
Henderson, Graeme 1943
Henderson, Herbt. 1891
Henderson, Hunter, 1898
Henderson, Hugh R. 1916
Henderson, Hugh W. 1934
Henderson, Ian A. 1938
Henderson, Jas. 1863
Henderson, Jas. 1902
Henderson, Jas. A. 1916
Henderson, Jas. G. 1927
Henderson, Jno. 1894
Henderson, Jno. H. 1947
Henderson, Jno. R. 1924
Henderson, Jno. S. 1906
Henderson, Jos. W. 1924
Henderson, Kevin H. 1946
Henderson, M. C. 1887
Henderson, M. R. 1932
Henderson, N. D. 1926
Henderson, Robt. B. 1912
Henderson, Robt. H. 1917
Henderson, Robt. R. 1926
Henderson, Ross S. 1941
Henderson, Wm. 1863
Henderson, Wm. 1879
Henderson, Wm. E. 1926
Henderson, Wm. J. 1891
Henderson, Wm. J. 1915
Hendra, Henry N. 1926
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Thanks Signalhill, i can see what you mean, none of them really fit with our james for him to be born from any time1860-77 hasnt left us much.
karen
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I found this which has a slim chance of being related. Could it be the family with James Barrowman HENDERSON in it ?
Otago Witness , Issue 2660, 8 March 1905, Page 37
CASUALTIES.
A man named John Henderson, aged 58 years, a carpenter, was killed at the Dunedin Railway Station on Monday. Deceased, who had been employed in the railway service for about seven years, and who lived with his wife and three daughters at Rankeillor street, South Dunedin, was instructed by Mr Pearson, one of the foremen in the Works Department, to adjust and robed a buffer stop post in the northern carriage shed, and he "commenced the work of excavation on Saturday last. Yesterday morning he resumed the work, and guyed the post with ropes on the western side, but the same precaution does not appear to " have been taken on the opposite side, deceased, who was working alone, was evidently in the act of coming out of the excavated hole, when from some unexplained cause the heavy post and strut fell upon him on the guyed side, pinning him to th© earth, and killing him, it is supposed, ii:stantly. Deceased was found at noon by a youth named Thomas White, a carriage cleaner, beneath the post, quite dead, the post lying across his shoulders and crushing his chest against the western embankment. Dr Gordon Macdonald, who was called in immediately after the discovery, attributed death to a crushed chest, and the body was removed to the morgue.
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hi signalhill,
that is a good fine and sounded really close to our guy, but i pretty sure he didnt leave the northland area,and if he did it would of being by himself.
thank you
karen
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Karen
I was thinking this could be John father of James but this John seems to have been married to an Isobella
Here is the Dunedin Cemetery record
Surname HENDERSON
Forename JOHN S
Age 45 Years
Gender Male
Date of Death 6 Mar 1905
Place of Death
Last Address
Next of Kin
Funeral Director
Cemetery PORT CHALMERS CEMETERY
Location Block REG. Plot 325
Date of Burial 6 Mar 1905
Type Burial
Date of Cremation
Type of Service
Ashes Disposal
Notes Original reference:- F19050306
The following burials are also in this Plot
HENDERSON ISOBELLA E 66 Years Burial 8 Feb 1928
HENDERSON JAMES ALEXANDER 5 Years Burial 10 Oct 1892
HENDERSON JOHN STRACHAN 5 Years Burial 21 Feb 1900
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I found this which has a slim chance of being related. Could it be the family with James Barrowman HENDERSON in it ?
Otago Witness , Issue 2660, 8 March 1905, Page 37
CASUALTIES.
A man named John Henderson, aged 58 years, a carpenter, was killed at the Dunedin Railway Station on Monday. ----
Hi Karen
Have to say I'm puzzled as to why info is still being posted re: James Barrowman HENDERSON. ??? Ah, well. ;D
The John HENDERSON mentioned in the above article was in fact aged only 45 years. (The newspaper has made an error with his age - and there are pages missing for the "Otago Witness" 8 March 1905 so unable to find a death notice.)
However, he was John Strachan HENDERSON (d. Monday, 6 March 1905) --- married to Isabella (Isobella) Eleanor PEEBLES 1884 --- buried with her and two sons at Dunedin. There were also 3 daughters as mentioned in the article.
His approx. year of birth - 1860 - is also confirmed through an online marriage record.
Again, not who you're looking for.
~ Lu
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A Probate OR Letters of Administration file at Archives NZ (Dunedin), records that James Strachan HENDERSON was Ships Carpenter resident at Port Chalmers.
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Hi Karen
I think I've probably mentioned this before on the thread (but I'm too busy to search for it). :D
It would be worthwhile requesting (on this board), a look-up for the Intention to Marry (ITM) notice, for Lilly Jane's and James' 1897 marriage. (These are held at Archives NZ, Wellington - your request needs to include date and place of marriage).
The ITM will (should) confirm, how long James HENDERSON had lived in the district where he and Lilly married.
[The info may just give another clue - especially if he had lived in the district for years (rather than weeks/months). ]
~ Lu
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Hi Lu
Seems James Barrowman HENDERSON has been eliminated
Therefore if something is found which connects with JBH definitely then its not our man
Thus ref to JBH is a way of excluding new possibilities
But if a new lead does nor connection with JBH it is still live
We are looking for Johns & Jameses and Janes who are not connected with JBH
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Here are listings from the Otago Nominal Index - mostly property holders who are on the Electoral Roll got HR (NZ Parliament) also early directories and Police Gazette. No results have appeared for the Otago Provincial Electoral Roll
The info format is a bit muddly as it has been lifted from a spreadsheet
Does this connect any dots or eliminate any johns still on other lists as possibilities ?
Surname Forename Address Event Place Date
HENDERSON John Castle st Dunedin 1865 Carpenter Harnetts Directory
HENDERSON John Castle st Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1865 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John Castle st Dunedin 1866 Carpenter Harnetts Directory
HENDERSON John Castle st Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1866 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John Dowling st Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1870-71 Bootcloser Wises Directory
HENDERSON John William Henry Dunedin Residential Canongate City of Dunedin Electorate 1893 Carpenter HR Roll
HENDERSON John Dunedin Residential George St City of Dunedin Electorate 1893 Bootcloser HR Roll
HENDERSON John Dunedin Household Castle St House City of Dunedin Electorate 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Dunedin Freehold pt sec 5 Blk II Nth Harb & Blueskin SD Port Chalmers 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Dunedin Household Castle St House City of Dunedin 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Kensington Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1867 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John Kensington Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1868 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John Kensington Freehold Kensington house & qr acr section Caversham 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Kensington Freehold Kensington house & qr acr section Caversham Electorate 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Maori hill Household Maori Hill House Roslyn 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Maori hill Household Maori Hill House Roslyn Electorate 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Mornington Freehold Belleknowes Sec 7 Blk I City of Dunedin Electorate 1893 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Mornington Freehold Mornington stone building house and garden Roslyn 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Mornington Freehold Sec 7 Blk IV City of Dunedin 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Mornington Freehold Mornington stone building house and garden Roslyn Electorate 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John North Harbour freehold; North Harbour and Blueskin, section 35, block 6 Port Chalmers 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Pine hill freehold; Pine hill, block 11, 10 acres Roslyn 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Pine hill freehold; Pine hill, block 11, 10 acres Roslyn Electorate 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Port Chalmers freehold; house and 1/4-acre, Kensington City of Dunedin Electorate 1893 Gardener HR Roll
HENDERSON John Port Chalmers freehold; part of section 59, block 23, Dunedin City of Dunedin Electorate 1893 Shipwright HR Roll
HENDERSON John Queen st Dunedin 1865 Harnetts Directory
HENDERSON John Queen st Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1865 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John Queen st Dunedin & Suburbs & Districts 1867 Wises Directory
HENDERSON John St Kilda freehold; St Kilda, sections 1, 2, 3, block 37 Caversham 1877-78 HR Roll
HENDERSON John St Kilda freehold; St Kilda, sections 1, 2, 3, block 57 Caversham Electorate 1878-79 HR Roll
HENDERSON John Invercargill Criminal offender; discharged from gaol 01/09/73 Clerk Police Gazette 1873 Native of Scotland; 6 weeks' labor; vagrancy; tried 16 Jul 1873 Invercargill;
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One Strange thing about John Henderson, aged 58 years carpenter, killed at the Dunedin Railway Station 6 Mar 1905 is he does not seem to have been buried In any Dunedin Cemetery
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One Strange thing about John Henderson, aged 58 years carpenter, killed at the Dunedin Railway Station 6 Mar 1905 is he does not seem to have been buried In any Dunedin Cemetery
It's only strange if you failed to read reply # 67.
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Hi Karen
Re: reply # 71 - Otago Nominal Index :
For what it's worth, I have already searched these listings earlier.
Because the only occupation you have for James' father John HENDERSON is - 1897 "Carter" - the Nominal list is, (in my opinion) of no use whatsoever in this search.
Certainly John may have had another occupation during time spent in Dunedin. That fact is, we don't know what that occuption might have been ... nor do we know how long he remained in Dunedin.
Women don't appear on NZ Electoral rolls until 1893 (if indeed they bothered to register at that time). I haven't found a John and Jane HENDERSON in Dunedin in 1893.
~ Lu
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Hi Lu, my relative has ordered the marriage C for lily 2nd marriage, hoping this will lead to more cues.
i will let you know as soon as i get it.
karen
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Hi Karen
That sound good. ;)
We seem to be going around in circles with this search at the moment, don't we. :D :D
~ Lu
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Hi Karen & Lu
Here is a John Henderson who is almost old enough to be James 's Father
He has a brother (and possibly another relative) named James so could have called his eldest son James
Otago Witness , Issue 1161, 28 February 1874, Page 14
THE WILD DEER'S PASSENGERS.
Tho following is the list of passengers who sailed from Glasgow in tho Wild Deer, on the 5th December last:
.......................
Robert Henderson, farmer, 42, Mrs Margaret Henderson 39, Jane 16, Jessie 15, John 12, James 10, Margaret S, Barbara 6, Robert 5, Alexander 4, Annie 2, Mary 1 ;
......................
Jas. Henderson, smith, 57 ; Mrs Henderson, 56 ;
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hi, update we have the Marriage C back of lilly vercoe married to william devin and it says she was a widow on the 28th feb 1916.
hmm the only james henderson that died isnt him
so wandering if she has made this all up, even wander if james has taken off to oz.so this leaves us no were but at a brick wall.
only hope is to maybe track down buy a family member who knows what happen to him. and our chances are finding another sibling to james henderson is bit slim. that takes us back to dunedin looking for his parents john and jane hall.
any ideas most welcome
thanks
karen
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Hi Karen
Did you ever purchase the other birth printout, for the James HENDERSON born Dunedin, in 1865 ?
[I know you've said a rellie got the 1863 birth cert.]
~ Lu
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that takes us back to dunedin looking for his parents john and jane hall.
:D Easier said than done.
So how do we go about that ? ::)
I'm sure we would have found them by now if it was that easy.
~ Lu
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yep i have run out of ideas to where to look.
thank you for all your help
karen
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opps forgot to answer your question, no we dont have a real date or age only guessing on being 1860s-1870s.
i find out whats on the last child birth C
thanks
karen
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opps forgot to answer your question, no we dont have a real date or age only guessing on being 1860s-1870s.
i find out whats on the last child birth C
thanks
karen
Hi Karen
Yes ... good idea to find out what's on the birth certificates for any (or all) of James' children.
We need to get a clearer idea of when he was born ... and also to see if his birthplace (which will also be noted on his children's birth certs.), is consistent with being "Dunedin".
~ Lu
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hi,
think we may have narrow it down to a james henderson b 24.11.1867 living at west port chalmers,masford bay. going to the school there.
then we have him turn up on the school rolls for Eileen henderson his daughter,in northcote college he is down living at Birkenhead auckland in 1910. so we know he was still alive at this time.
we also know by 1914 they werent living together as lily has had a child to william devin.
karen
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hi,
think we may have narrow it down to a james henderson b 24.11.1867 living at west port chalmers,masford bay. going to the school there.
Hi Karen
Yes, I also have a note of that school entry and the only thing that stopped me posting it here, was that it contained some other info which left me doubting :
... it said >
"Last day: 8 November 1882
Destination: Joiner --- Bauchop & Ritchie "
I take that to mean that he was leaving school to join a firm named Bauchop and Ritchie ... to become a joiner (carpenter). So the "problem" is, that someone needs to look up the later Dunedin Electoral rolls / directories, to find this chap (working as a joiner or similar) and see whether he remains there ... or disappears ?
~ Lu
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Hi
Seeing as that entry (James Henderson -- father John -- 1882) was from the Port Chalmers School, the you might like to get in touch via email with the Port Chalmers Museum.
They have info on early settlers in the area, and so can probably give you more details, hopefully.
Link > >
http://www.portmuseum.org.nz/
~ Lu
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James HENDERSON - Births
Ooops ... double post - info deleted by me. :D
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James HENDERSON - Births
1863 - registered at Dunedin (folio # 538)
1865 - Picton (# 348)
1865 - Dunedin (# 628)
1869 - Christchurch (# 906)
1869 - Hokitika (# 725)
1870 - Invercargill (# 1422)
[Note: Folio numbers in italics are from the microfiche record
- they are not relevant when ordering printouts from the BDM online historical records source.]
Just these two "James HENDERSON" births registered at Dunedin. I've only searched on "James" as there is no evidence that he had a second christian name ("James" being shown on registrations for marriage and births of his children).
There were just these two James HENDERSON births in DUNEDIN ... so I'm not sure where the boy born "24/11/1867" would fit in ? Maybe that James had a second christian name - which isn't shown on the school record ?
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then we have him turn up on the school rolls for Eileen henderson his daughter,in northcote college he is down living at Birkenhead auckland in 1910. so we know he was still alive at this time.
Hmm ... interesting. Was there a date of birth given for "Eileen" on the school record ?
I assume she is the "Ilene Rachel HENDERSON" born 6 April 1900 ? Seems odd that at age 10, she would be going to college ?
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thanks Lu, i have sent off a letter to the museum.
i have too found out lily had two illegitimate children to william devin before marry him , noreen b 1911. thats tells us then he or she left with in that year.
karen
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Hi Karen
Ooh ... great news, that you're getting all this new information. :) I'm sure we're gonna get a breakthough on all of this soon .... well, hopefully anyway. ;)
That was definitely the right "Eileen" - born April 1900 - on the Northcote roll ... was it ?
Have you managed to get further details for James from one of his children's birth certs. yet ?
Just think we need to re-confirm his place of and year of birth.
~ Lu
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hi
still waiting on that, and still checking out the eileen school records, yes i agree it sounds a bit funny her only being 10y at college.
karen
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Cheers Karen :)
Look forward to any new info you can come up with.
~ Lu
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hi
spent all morning going through pass papers and came across a james henderson
the same dates as ours in napier. but i cant found him in the cemetery there.
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hi,
well we trying to connect this james as being ours , seeing this guy died the same day as we have being told ours did.
this guy has 3 children kathleen frances b 1904,james scott b 1906 and another girl b 1910 mother being annie geirs from scotland.
the only thing to do is order james scott henderson birth and see what that gives us.
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Hi Karen
Somehow I missed spotting your post on 26 March with this newspaper clipping. ???
What was the date / year ? (Not able to work this out from the information you've provided.)
~ Lu
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hi,
well we trying to connect this james as being ours , seeing this guy died the same day as we have being told ours did.
Sorry, I must have missed something along the way. :D
Have you now actually got a specific date on which your James died ?
~ Lu
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opps sorry ,so much junk in my head.
yes we got back that on her 2nd marriage C she has put down the date of his death being the same date as this james henderson in napier ,leaving behind 3 children.
and agian opps boo i put the wrong dates a john scott b 1906, frances kathleen b 1909 to annie Geirs from scotland.
thanks
karen
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Great ... so getting the printout for Lilly's 2nd marriage, certainly did pay off (as I thought it might). :D
Some progress, at long last. :D
Yes, there is a child "John Scott HENDERSON - born 27 December, 1905 ... birth registered in 1906 ... born to "a James HENDERSON and Annie ?"
So did this James HENDERSON die in 1916 ? (You haven't given the date / year of his death ? )
~ Lu
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Hi Karen
DEATHS - James HENDERSON
There were 23 "hits" for deaths for persons named James HENDERSON (or James + second christian name) - between 1903 and 25 May 1916 (when Lilly Jane remarried).
1916 / 1168 - HENDERSON - James - (about) 39 years (bc 1877)
[Buried at Napier - occupation: joiner]
Hi Karen
Is this the death you are referring to ?
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If it is this 1916 one, then I possibly still have the cemetery information (somewhere ::) ). Will have a search for it.
~ Lu
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hi, update we have the Marriage C back of lilly vercoe married to william devin and it says she was a widow on the 28th feb 1916.
hmm the only james henderson that died isnt him
Apologies Karen. :)
I see now where you've given information about the date ... and I sort of read that as being that "28th February 1916" was the date of Lilly's 2nd marriage. ???
Of course, I know she remarried in May of 1916 ... and I should have made the connection with the James who died at Napier. Doh ! :D (It's just that this is a very long thread ... and I have to keep re-reading it everytime something gets posted.)
~ Lu
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Great ... so getting the printout for Lilly's 2nd marriage, certainly did pay off (as I thought it might). :D
Some progress, at long last. :D
Yes, there is a child "John Scott HENDERSON - born 27 December, 1905 ... birth registered in 1906 ... born to "a James HENDERSON and Annie ?"
So did this James HENDERSON die in 1916 ? (You haven't given the date / year of his death ? )
~ Lu
yes this is the james we think has died on the 28.2.1916 in napier it says in the paper that he was a widow,so to pin point Annies death, i have 4 in the right years, 1908 age 36,1910 age 43,1914 age 40,1909 age 22. no marriage for a james and annie 1900-1906 but then if its our guy he was still married to lily.
or this guy has come out from scotland already married to annie.
can we see a marriage for his son john scott henderson and where? it may lead to a cue.
karen
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can we see a marriage for his son john scott henderson and where? it may lead to a cue.
karen
No ... not up till (today's date) 1930.
And there's not a NZ death for this John Scott HENDERSON either.
Maybe the children of this union were adopted (or fostered) out and had their names changed (they were still very young when they were orphaned.)
Can I ask please, where you got the information about this "Annie GEIRS from Scotland" ?
~ Lu
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Sorry i dont know where i got that from. i know i am writing down everything now,as where it came from.
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Well, afraid I can't really help you then, with this Annie. :(
For this James HENDERSON - died 28 February 1916, the age is shown on the NZ Death index as "39YA". The "YA" denotes "years about". In other words his correct age wasn't known to the informant to his death and so it has been guessed at.
Given that his date of death is exactly the same as that recorded for Lilly's "date of widowhood", then it's a more than a fair bet he is Lilly's former husband.
Perhaps it's a good idea to firstly get his death printout and see what information it contains ?
~ Lu
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Fortunately I still had the details of the cemetery enquiry for the James who died at Napier. :D
HENDERSON - James - aged 39
Died: 28 February 1916
Burial date: 2 March 1916
Address: Napier Occupation: Joiner
Warrant # 1 - Plot 1
Cemetery: Napier Hill
Area: Napier Hill
Section/Wall: Section S
Plot/Niche No. 3045
Page 135 Interment # 1
Burial/Ashes: Buried Depth: 6 ft
* [Show record on website 3*1*28 ]
Headstone reference: 1574
Headstone Inscription:
"James HENDERSON d. 28.2.16 at 39"
-----------------------------------------------
Okay ... so it looks likes someone knew (and cared for) this James, especially as there appears to be a headstone ?
* Have no idea what the reference to "website" refers to ? These Napier Hill burials don't appear online.
So, as previously, probably a good idea to get his death printout. :D
~ Lu
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hi,
we got his death c way back ,but put it aside as his age didnt fit and saying he was born in scotland,where ours was born in dunedin ,. so till we found out the date of death of our james being the same date as this guy in napier, and there isnt another james dieing on the same date.
so really not sure how we gona to prove he is the same guy.
hopefully the birth records of his son may tell us more.
but as you say ,its going to be hard if these kids where put in foster homes.
Thanks Lu any ideas is ready appreciated
karen
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Hi Karen
Hmm ... didn't realise you already had the death printout for this James (1916). :D
(Maybe that's where the info about Annie GEIRS comes from ?)
Yes ... so the next thing to do would be to get the birth printout for the child John Scott HENDERSON. That will give you father's age and place of birth.
("Place of birth - Scotland" on death printout may not of course be correct - might be just a guess on the part of the informant. Obviously nobody was sure of his real age either ? Surprised too that this 1916 James had the occupation of "joiner" - that's probably something that needed a bit a training for. Does this particular occupation show on any of the records you have for his children to Lilly ?)
I'm only surmising that his orphaned children were adopted or fostered out (largely because I can't see a marriage or death for the "John Scott" child (or his sister).
Let me know when you get the printout. :)
~ Lu
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we got his death c way back ,but put it aside as his age didnt fit and saying he was born in scotland,where ours was born in dunedin ....
Hi again Karen
* Parents names of this James, NOT given on this death printout ... is that right ?
* Was there an inquest into his death ? [It will be stated on the printout if there was. ]
* Birthplace is just given as "Scotland" ... right ?
* Is "Annie" stated as his "widow" ? (If he's Lilly's husband then they obviously weren't married - but I'm interested to know if that is on the printout.]
I'll post some other ideas (where you might get additional info from), tomorrow.
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hi
we found a Annie Gear Henderson died age 40 on 6.12.1914 in napier headstones. no mention of james or the children. ( we question the Gear put down as well as henderson,thinking that she really wasnt married)
on the death C for james in napier ,no parents where down. only born in scotland.and the age was a guess.
thanks Lu
karen