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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: dhalaughlin on Thursday 07 January 10 15:20 GMT (UK)
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It's one of the last of my "holy grails". What happened to my great grand uncle Duncan BLUE of Campbeltown?
In my grandfather's memoirs he writes: "Duncan was a youthful uncle who went to sea and voyaged to Southern Seas long ago, was last heard of in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania)."
Duncan's father William's memorial in old Kilkerran cemetery also states that Duncan was "Reported lost at sea" but without mention of date or place.
We know that Duncan is the son of William BLUE and Susanna GALBRAITH and born in Campbeltown 26 August 1835. It is possible he married an Isabella SCOTT and they had a son William b. abt Sep 1866 in Campbeltown. This is conjecture based on anecdotal records. It could be a red herring. But if true then he would have perished sometime after 1865 at age 30+. Also conjecture. It's hard to know what my grandfather's definition of "youthful" was or if Duncan was ever married or ever had children.
What I am wondering is does there exist an archive of local Campbeltown newspaper reports during these times where maritime deaths and disappearances of resident families would have been reported? Or obituaries?
It is documented that Duncan "was last heard of in Van Diemen's Land". Presumably his last port of call was Hobart in Tasmania and there might exist crew and passenger lists of ships departing that sank during these times.
I do also plan to contact the Martime Museum of Tasmania http://www.maritimetas.org/web-content/research.html although it appears they do not do genealogical work.
We know that Duncan was a native Campbeltonian who did not expatriate and that at least his parents and siblings remained behind, left an inscription for him, and even wrote briefly about him. It seems that there should be a record somewhere but I am a bit stumped as of now. He's a mystery.
Any guidance, anecdotal research, drilling down, or lookups would be sincerely appreciated.
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Needle in a haystack.
If he did die at sea whilst on a British ship it may be recorded in
Registers of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen British National archives series BT153 These records cover the years 1852 to 1881 and 1888/89.
As you do not have a DOD or the name of a ship it will be very difficult to find him. I suggest you look in the index of seamans names in BT154. The link is for the years 1864- January 1886.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=2353311&CATLN=6&accessmethod=5
Hit the REQUEST THIS button and use the downloadable digital image service.
Other periods from 1853 to 1889 are available in BT154.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=1625&GPE=False&MARKER=0
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hi :)
there are 2 children born to duncan blue and isabella scott on the IGI
mary blue 1862 southend argyll
william blue 1866 campbeltown argyll
both parents would seem to be alive in 1881
kirk st campbeltown argyll
duncan blue 48 b. carradale argyll
isabella blue 45 b. kirconnell
mary blue 18 b. southend argyll
william blue 14 b. campbeltown argyll
mary scott 78(mother in law) b. dumfries
ev
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Thanks Seaweed. Great info. I will work on it. I know it will be challenging if not impossible. That's why it's a "holy grail". But believe it or not I've been successful through this site before finding a "needle in haystack" holy grail. I have faith in this community.
And some local Campbeltown anecdotes someone provides might shed some light and help thread things together.
Thanks SO much again.
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Thanks EV. So, I think your info helps eliminate this family group from my drowned Duncan. My Duncan would have died before my grandfather was born in 1869.
I will study your info however and see if there are any links to my Campbeltown Blues.
THANK YOU!
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No further forward
Downloaded entries for the only 2 Duncan Blues who died in Scotland born 5 years either side of 1835. There were only 2.
The Duncan Blue marrying Isabella Scott died on 28 June 1892. Parents Duncan Blue and Isabella McKinlay. Reported by son William.
Good luck with your search. Regards, Steve :O)
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Thanks Pigle01.
Sometimes moving the boulders is getting forward. That further substantiates that this Duncan nuclear family is not the one we are looking for and now I can remove them from my tree for now(including the question mark).
I do see my Duncan living with his parents (5 yrs old) in 1841. His father William dies in 1847 and in 1851 he is not living with his mother. Susan is a widow working as a charwoman and has only her 2 youngest sons with her. Duncan's 18 yr old brother William (my g grandfather) is living separately at "Back Street" as a servant training as a journeyman baker. He later becomes master baker and owns his own bakery on the Longrow.
In 1851 there is a 14 year old Duncan living in Killean/Kichenzie but there is no detail as the file image must be ordered and is not downloadable. I'm guessing this could be our Duncan living with relatives on a farm. His mother had her hands full in Campbeltown and a 14 year old would be quite useful on the farm.
Still trying to pinpoint a window of time when our Duncan may have ventured out to sea. Then it gets easier to search maritime records for the Southern Seas.
Were there no local record reports of losses from Campbeltown? Newspapers etc?
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I'm not sure why when SP show an image as not being available on the censuses (assume it is down to poor film quality?), it sometimes can show on Ancestry's transcript. Could this be the 1851 entry you refer to for a Duncan Blue?:
Mary Gallisath 74, cottar
Alexander Gallisath 45, Lobsterfisher
Flora Gallisath 34
Christy Galbreath 30
Donald Marton 28
Duncan Blue 14, grandson, Lobster Fisher b. Killiean
Address: Bulloch, Killean and Kilchenzie
He is the only possible entry showing in 1851. Not sure if the above entry is the one you are looking for. I think the surname of Gallisath is a mis-transcription of something....could it be Galbraith? Do you have the names of Susanna's parents?
Monica
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Is this Susanna's entry:
SUSANNA GALBREATH Christening: 10 AUG 1809 Killean And Kilchenzie, Argyll
Parents: DUNCAN GALBREATH and MARY KELLY
Monica
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Hi Monica! So nice to hear from you again. You guide so well. THANK YOU! I finished a very detailed response and lost it just now fiddling around with the smiley face. I don't know how to do it. So I hope I can do justice to the message again.
All those Gallisath's are definitely GALBRAITH"S and are of our Duncan's family. That's our Duncan definitely. Alexander (aka Sandy) and Christy (aka Chirsty) are well-known to me as my grandfather wrote some interesting stories about them and their cottage in Bulloch. Mary is Susanna's (aka Susan) mother. As suspected it is abundantly clear now that Duncan is residing with his grandmother Mary Galbraith, nee Kelly and his aunt & uncle. He was undoubtedly helping his uncle in the lobster fishing business. This experience eventually led him to explore his interest in the sea with a futher fatal voyage of fortune to Southern Seas and Van Diemen's Land. He must have been very adventuresome, very desperate, or both. My guess is he left to the southern hemisphere sometime in the earlier part of the decade (1851-1861) as so far I have been unable to locate this Duncan anywhere in the 1861 census. His family remained in Kintyre.
Yes that is correct for Susanna's birth info and her parents. She was born in Rosehill, Killean/kilchenzie.
What exactly is a "cottar"? A homemaker?
Thanks again. No smiley faces, only smiles.
David
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Hi David :)
A cottar is a tenant with only a cottage and little land www.scotsfamily.com/occupations.htm
Monica
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Hi David,
By odd co-incidence I have been looking at your family and making links in Find A Grave between members buried in Scotland, Northern Ireland and the USA. I had just looked at the grave you mention of William Blue d. 9 Oct 1847, his wife Susanna Galbraith d. 9 Mar 1888, their son Duncan and William Blue.
Obviously you are working from stories in your family tradition written by those who knew more than I ever can. However I offer this interpretation of the gravestone inscription that seems to me to reconcile all the information you have posted.
The last three lines of the gravestone inscription read:
AND OF WILLIAM BLUE
FATHER OF THE ABOVE WILLIAM
REPORTED LOST AT SEA
I think this indicates that Duncan’s grandfather William is the individual who was ‘lost at sea’.
When I looked at this gravestone I assumed that Duncan died as an infant – the fact you found him as a 5 year old in 1841 puts a DOB c. 1836 and so before official birth records began. Admittedly In 1851 a 15 year old could have been living and working elsewhere - but I had assumed this Duncan died as an infant.
Listing the name of deceased children without giving dates of birth or death is not uncommon – there are three listed on the gravestone of Duncan’s brother William Blue d. 19 June 1890 (Flora, Richard & Susie).
Yesterday I had looked up the years of the births and deaths for these children and offered them as suggested edits to the manager of the memorial – which possibly accounts for why I viewed the inscription for Duncan as for that of a deceased infant.
I suggest it is worth considering that Duncan died before official records were kept (1 January 1855).
It is possible that the gravestone inscription has been mis-interpretated a century ago as those who read them did not have the luxury to studying computer screens at their leisure (!)
As I may be wrong in how I have interpreted the information I hope you have the breakthrough you have been looking for.
All the best
SG
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It is possible he married an Isabella SCOTT and they had a son William b. abt Sep 1866 in Campbeltown.
Duncan Blue married Isabella Scott in Campbeltown in 1860. Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, invest in some credits and use some of them to download a copy of the marriage certificate. It will tell you the names of the couple's parents including their mothers' maiden surnames.
There were two children of this marriage; Mary, born 18 August 1862 and William, born 3 September 1866.
In 1861, at Drumore, Campbeltown are Duncan Blue, 28; wife Isabella Blue, 26; mother-in-law Mary Scot, 55; and Isabella Tod, 2.
In 1871, at Kirk Street, Campbeltown, are Duncan Blue, 39; wife Isabella, 35; daughter Mary, 8; son William, 5 and mother-in-law Mary Scott, 65.
ev has already posted an extract from the 1881 census.
In 1891 there are Duncan Blue, 56; wife Isabella, 50; daughter Mary, 25; son William, 23.
There's a death of Duncan Blue, 62, in Campbeltown in 1892, mother's surname Mckinlay.
There is a baptism of Duncan, son of Duncan Blue and Isabella McKinlay, in Campbeltown in 1824.
So I don't think that it was your Duncan Blue who married Isabella Scott, but the marriage certificate will nail that one way or the other.
It would not surprise me if Duncan Blue, husband of Isabella McKinlay, and William Blue, husband of Susanna Galbraith, were the sons of William Blue and Anne/Agnes McNaught(on), baptised in 1806 and 1802 respectively.
A look at the original baptisms might possibly clarify that.
There's also a death of Florence Blue or Watson, aged 82, in Glasgow in 1883. In the 1881 census she is listed as aged 80, born Campbeltown. If I'm right she would be your Duncan's aunt.
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A cottar is a tenant with only a cottage and little land
It's actually a bit more defined than just that.
From the OED:
Scottish. A peasant who occupies a cot-house or cottage belonging to a farm (sometimes with a plot of land attached), for which he has (or had) to give or provide labour on the farm, at a fixed rate, when required.
and from J Jamieson, Etymological Dictionary of Scottish Language
Cottar, cotter, Persons of this description possess a house and small garden, or small piece of land, the rent of which they are bound to pay, either to a landlord or a farmer, by labour for a certain number of days, or at certain seasons...
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Have you seen this?
See also http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Clippers/Storm_Cloud(1854).html
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Certainly the age matches the child in the 1841 records. If you can exclude this 18 year old merchant seaman being the son of the Mckinlay named in the 1892 death certificate then this is a candidate.
I don't know how that can be done as none of the dates people on this forum have already found match the information that is available for the two Duncan Blues we are aware of!
I am not sure whether I would prefer that the Duncan (mentioned on the gravestone) died before records for death began in 1855 or shared the fate of his paternal grandfather - either way it would seem a life cut off too soon.
Sadly I have found that some mysteries hang there as the documentation does not exist - but there have been occasions when something does clarify matters. I hope this happens for Duncan.
SG
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When I looked at this gravestone I assumed that Duncan died as an infant – the fact you found him as a 5 year old in 1841 puts a DOB c. 1836 and so before official birth records began. Admittedly In 1851 a 15 year old could have been living and working elsewhere - but I had assumed this Duncan died as an infant.
He was in the 1851 census, aged 14, with his grandmother Mary Galbraith and uncle, aunts and cousin. He was a lobster fisherman, which is quite consistent with him becoming a merchant seaman a few years later.
If you can exclude this 18 year old merchant seaman being the son of the Mckinlay
There's a Duncan Blue, ploughman, aged 25, born Campbeltown, at a farm in the parish of Killean who is a close match for the son of Duncan Blue and Isabella McKinlay.