RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Jolyn on Tuesday 05 January 10 06:45 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to establish the identity of my great aunt, Mary BALL who was born at Llantrisant in 1865. Unfortunately there was never any mention of her within my immediate family.
Research so far from census and a marriage certificate indicate she married William Henry RODD at Cardifff in 1889. Her father's name on the marriage certificate matches that of my great grandfather, however there is nothing else on the certificate to prove this Mary BALL is the one I am looking for.
Is there any document available that would show her mother's name?
I know that Mary and William RODD had 2 sons but I don't know what became of Mary after her husband died in 1903
Does anyone have any ideas on where I should look next?
Thanks
Joy
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Hallo Jolyn, and Welcome to Rootschat.
The only way of finding out Mary Ball's mother's name is from the Birth Certificate.
When ordering, you have the father's name, so that should be of some help.
Do you have the Ref. No.?
Viv
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Jolyn,
Looking at the 1871 RG10, 5372, 31, 12 /1881 RG11, 5297, 4, 4 census, if Mary's sister is Emma (on 1881) and her father is George occ. Farmer (1871) then her mother is also Emma - please correct me if I am wrong.
Based on this I have found the following in FreeBMD
George Ball / Emma Watts Q3 1853 Ref: 5c 968 in Frome (Somerset)
George JAMES Ball / Emma Lewis Q3 1854 Ref: 1c 40 (East London)!!!
I cannot find a birth ref. at the moment, though.
Viv
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At freebmd.org.uk I have found the following possible birth:
Mary Ball, Q4 1865, Ref:11a 264 /Cardiff
Please check again for yourself if you think this could be her.
Viv
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Thanks for your reply Viv.
I do have Mary's birth details and I know her mother's name. Your entry for Emma Watts is the correct one.
I just need to prove that the Mary BALL who married William RODD is the same person. I am 90% sure it is, but as no family members are familiar with the RODD surname there is that small doubt lingering.
What a pity UK death certificates do not list the children's names as my problem would be solved if this was the case. I have a small obit notice from the newspaper for Emma, but again no children's names mentioned.
I really am at a loss as to where to try next.
Thanks again for your help
Joy
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Hi Jolyn,
Sorry to double up your knowledge. I expect you have looked at the 1911 census!
No luck there, obviously.
Have you searched for another marriage?
Viv
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There is a marriage for a Mary Rodd in Cardiff in Q3 1904 - which man she married would be shown on the 1911 census:
Q3 1904 Ref: Cardiff 11a 645
Emma Harriet Gazard
MARY RODD
Thomas Thorsen
Robert John Williams
Viv
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Hi Jolyn,
I haven't got full access to the 1911 census, but have found the following:
Bertie Elvan Rodd, 1894 in Cardiff, Glamorganshire
William Steven Rodd, 1892 in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire
Bertie could be with his mother and her new husband. William S could be working in Pembrokeshire.
Might be worth buying a couple of credits (unless you have a full sub to FindMyPast) and looking at the Bertie Rodd result.
Viv
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Hello Jolyn
There is a death registered for Mary Thorsen in the AMJ quarter of 1907, 11a Page 194.
So if she married Thomas Thorsen, she wouldn't show on the 1911 census. :'(
Bob
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Nice one Bob, but let's hope she married Robert Williams :)
Viv
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Thanks to Bob & Viv,
Further to the Thorsen marriage. A Mary Thorsen died in 1907 aged 41yrs. Unfortunately a copy of that death certificate is not going to give me her mother's name, so not much point in sending for it. It may explain why my father never mentioned his Aunt Mary though?
Would Church records have both the bride's parents listed?
Joy
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Jolyn,
I would think so - a baptism/christening record should have both parents recorded.
Viv
P.S. Was there any talk of the children, William and Bertie?
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Just had a look at the IGI - as you probably have already.
There is only the Christening of Mary mentioned:
2 Nov 1895 in Pendeulwyn, Glamorgan, Wales
Parents: George Ball
Emma
Viv
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Hi Viv
Yes, this is the right christening record.
The eldest son was William Stephen Rodd. As my grandfather was also Stephen, this is one of the reasons I believe this Mary Ball is my great aunt.
Joy
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Hi Joy,
just to get this straight for me:
Stephen is your grandfather (surname Ball?)- Mary possibly your great-aunt so that :
Stephen and Mary should be siblings. Do you have the birth cert. of your grandfather? Was he born in 1858? (as on the 1871 census).
Then, the birth cert. of Mary Ball should prove that she is the one you are searching for.
I am afraid that the only way of finding out if this is your great-aunt isto buy the birth cert.
Viv
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Hi Viv,
Yes Mary Ball is Stephen's sister. My dilemma is proving that the Mary Ball who married William Rodd is Stephen's sister and not another Mary Ball. I just don't know how I can do this as there are no family anecdotes linking the Ball family to the Rodd family.
Thanks for all your help
Joy
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Hi Jolyn,
As I have said, the only way to priove the relationship is to get a BIRTH Cert.
1. You know your Grandfather's father's name
2. You know Mary Ball's father's name from her Marriage Cert. Same as that of your grandfather
3. You know where Mary Ball was born (also the same place as your grandfather)
4. BIRTH Cert - putting in father's name as known.
That should give you proof: On birth cert you have both Father's and Morther's name (also Maiden name of Mother)
If you can fork out GBP 7 for the cert, it might be well worth it.
You also said that nobody mentioned or knows about the RODD surname - probably because he died at an early age and Mary married again.
You really are going to have to go for a birth cert.
I do not have any other suggestion to make, I am afraid.
Viv
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Thanks for your great effort, Viv.
I do know the name of Mary's mother as I have Mary's baptism records.
Unfortunately it is not on her marriage certificate, only the father's name.
Witnesses were members of the Rodd family, so no luck there with sisters!
Mary's address on the marriage certificate is not her childhood address, though her father's name. occupation and the fact that he is deceased, does match my great grandfather.
I'm not sure I will ever cross all the "t's". Maybe one day someone else researching the same family will prove it 100% for me.
Cheers
Joy
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To all those who helped with tips earlier in the year. Thanks so much as I have finally proved the the Mary Ball in question was indeed my great aunt. Her son Bertie was listed on the 1911 census living with his cousin, who was also my Dad's cousin.
Another brick wall finally smashed.
Cheers
Jolyn