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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: maggbill on Sunday 03 January 10 11:23 GMT (UK)
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Have found previously unknown oldest sibling of my grandmother. William Mc Donald, died 27 April 1858 at 144 Garngad Road Glasgow. Definitely correct child/family, but there is a mystery. He died of "Pneumonia, 1 month".. but in the "Age" column, it says "1 month". Impossibility, because his next sibling James Mc Donald is born 5 August 1858 - only 5 months after supposed birth of William?
So, have now searched for birth of William, between 1855 and 1857 (parents Arthur McDonald and Julia Maloney married 1855 in Airdrie). Not finding it at all easily, very common name, and not sure of birth place. Not appearing in the most obvious areas.
Second mystery - William's death informant is not the mother, father or obvious relative, - rather it says "John ?Nichol" then what appears to be "inmate - present".... Inmate to me means asylum or poor house - Anyone got any ideas on this?
Will try to attach relevant part of death entry - am I misreading it? First attachment i have posted so here goes.
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Hi
The IGI (extracted) has him born 22 Dec 1855, Old Monkland.
I think the 1 month refers to the length of time he'd had pneumonia - if you look it says 1 month in that col as well. A mistake by the informant, I'd say.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget.
Wow, that has to be the quickest reply ever !! Thanks a million for that - have been tying myself in knots over this one... will check out birth again with scotlandspeople, now.... looking good.... Thanks again.
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What address was James born at?
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Hi Sancti,
The young brother James was born at "153 Garngad Road, Glasgow" on 5th August 1858.
William, the older one we now know was born on 22 December 1855 at "Calder Bank ....." and two words I can't read - looks likes ----- forge? .... but William died at "144 Garngad Road Glasgow" on 27 April 1858.... I have tried to do a Google search on 144 Garngad road, but no relevant results.
It seems that in Glasgow a family could live at various addresses within the same road (tenements?) over a period of years... not uncommon.
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You are probably right, I originally thought that the death address was possibly a hospital due to the cause of death and the signatory being described as 'inmate' but it is probably a neighbour in the same tenement.
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Calderbank is an area on the outskirts of Airdrie
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Hi Sancti,
thanks very much for that information.... I am learning that my geographical knowledge of Glasgow isn't as good as I used to think lol. I still find it amazing that the informant of William's death was not a family member - and it was registered just the day after death... Maybe just pure coincidence that the "neighbour"? was registering someone else's demise - and did both at the one time???
I have also noticed that there was a 7 year period between two later siblings - Arthur McDonald born 1863 and Julia born 1870.... too much to think there were other babies within those years? Why does it always fall between census years? Any quick way of doing a search - no name? no year of birth? With a name like Mc Donald, could be searching well into the next century lol...
Thanks again..
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Hi
As these births were before 1875, there's a good chance that they'll be on the IGI.
Just go to family search and put in the parents names, and location and you should get the full listing of their children.
Gadget
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Oh thank you so much Gadget - I obviously don't know how to use IGI to advantage. You have been most helpful - will chase it up....
Rootschat is my favourite website !!
Cheers
Maggie
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Hi again Gadget,
No luck with IGI - they do have the parents Arthur and Julia McDonald being married 19 FEB 1855 New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland - but it gives the marriage as "childless" - far from it ! Have now discovered at least 7 children.. but looks like IGI has none of them recorded. Mind you, I have still learnt a lesson on how to search for "unnamed" possible children of other ancestors.
thank you !
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Hi
I think you must have been doing something wrong as I've just done it and 7 children have come up:
Julia
Bridget
James
Mary Ann
Peter
Arthur
Nicholas
(not in birth order)
Gadget
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Go to Family Search, Search page
Select International Genealogical Index from the left hand menu
Enter the parents' names in the right hand boxes where it says Father and Mother
Then select British Isles, Scotland and Lanark
Leave everything else blank.
Gadget
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2 of their children are showing on the RC baptisms on SP
04/04/1860 BAPT. 07/04/1860 MCDONALD JOHN - ARTHUR MCDONALD/JULIA MALONY M GLASGOW, ST MUNGO'S
01/09/1861 BAPT. 08/09/1861 MCDONALD MARY - ARTHUR MCDONALD/JULIE MALONY F GLASGOW, ST MUNGO'S
VIEWING THEM WILL GIVE THE GOD PARENTS NAMES
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Another 2 with the mother's name spelt differently
31/05/1863 bapt. 07/06/1863 MCDONALD ARTHUR - ARTHUR MCDONALD/JULIA MOLONY M GLASGOW, ST MUNGO'S
05/08/1858 bapt. 08/08/1858 MCDONALD JAMES - ARTHUR MCDONALD/JULIA MULONEY M GLASGOW, ST MUNGO'S
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Hi Sancti
So far, apart from John*, these are all showing on the IGI listing - from the birth registrations that the LDS have transcribed.
Are all the ones that I've listed in the RC records?
Gadget
* just found him on the IGI with mother's surname as Molonay
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Only the ones I've posted so far are on the RC Baptisms on SP
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Julia's surname is spelled in three different ways as far as I can see - Moloney, Molonay and Maloney.
Molonay didn't come up on the first search - interesting for an IGI soundex algorithm which I would have thought would have got them all :-\
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This is a full listing from the various surnames for Julia that I've used on the IGI - all are birth dates:
William 22 Dec 1855 - Old Monkland
James 5 Aug 1858 - Springburn
John 4 April 1860 - Springburn
Mary Ann 1 Sept 1861 - Springburn
Arthur 31 May 1863 - Springburn
Nicholas 12 Jan 1865 - Springburn
Peter 1 April 1866 - Springburn
Julia 30 July 1870 - Bridgeton
Bridget 9 Sept 1872 - Bridgeton
Gadget
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If using SP be sure to put McDonald in as M*Donald, otherwise it wont show any listed as MacDonald - I have learnt this to my cost with my Mc (Mac) Donalds.
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Oh Heavens above, People - especially Gadget and Sancti - You are just so good !!!! Unbelievable !!
Yes Gadget, I had completely misunderstood how to use the IGI index... had filled in Arthur and Julia's names in the wrong spots - not in the "parents" spot.. duhhhhhhh!! Will go back and try myself, as a learning process.
But you have all done so well, - I am so grateful [/b] for your work! I have had a hectic day - and didn't check my emails as early as usual - so was absolutely amazed to read all your replies.
And amazed to discover - now 4 children we didn't know of!! Actually there is one final child not on your list - our grandmother Rose Alice - born 2nd Dec 1877. Lord above, there is a gap between Bridget in 1872 and our Rose Alice in 1877... the mind boggles - more pregnancies in between?
Loads of work to do now, discovering the details - deaths etc....
Thanks you Grendlsmother also, re hints on spellings and variations - had some experience with our Carrigan/Corrigan/Kerrigan/kirgan/kergan/cargan side of family - lessons well learned.
Cheers everyone and thanks again
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Oh Heavens above, People - especially Gadget and Sancti - You are just so good !!!! Unbelievable !!
Actually there is one final child not on your list - our grandmother Rose Alice - born 2nd Dec 1877. Lord above, there is a gap between Bridget in 1872 and our Rose Alice in 1877... the mind boggles - more pregnancies in between?
As Rose was born after 1875, it might well be that she's not on the IGI but should be on Scotlands People (there is a Rose Alice on SP, registered Camlachie in 1877)
Also, the gap might be explained by Julia's age - fertility does decline with age.
Gadget
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Yes, Gadget - agreed about fertility and age.....
Can you continue your generous sharing of knowledge by explaining why IGI are pre 1875?
Yes, the Rose Alice on SP is ours - have her birth/marriage/death etc.
thank you!
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Hi
Not sure why they finished in 1875-ish but it's an excellent resource :)
Gadget
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Yes, Gadget
Excellent resource when you know how to use it correctly - We live and learn eh?
Cheers
Maggie
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Dare I put another question to you knowledgeable people?
Have been able to find birth entries for all these siblings, (children of Arthur Mc Donald and Julia Maloney), but am struggling to find death entries for two of them. Making the presumption they died as infants or children.
John McDonald born 4 April 1860, does not appear with family in Glasgow census of 1861 or in any ongoing ones - and am failing to find death (on SP and IGI) - tried MacDonald, McDonnell.. getting nowhere.
Peter Mc Donald born 1 April 1866, also does not appear with family in Glasgow census of 1871 or subsequent census - again, not finding him on SP or IGI re death as child?
Would anyone have any ideas? They were born - have to have died? Family stayed in Glasgow - although eventually 3 of the other siblings migrated to USA in late 1888's 90's - James, Julia and Bridget....
Actually we also fail to find a death entry for sibling Arthur - after he appears in the 1891 census with mother and sisters... disappears into the sunset, and does not appear to have gone to USA with others... mysteries... galore.
Any ideas welcomed.
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Hi
Peter died 5 August 1867,aged 15 months. There's an entry for him (as Mcdonald) in the Springburn deaths. Aged 2.
I've not yet found John's death.
Gadget
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Ooops - Thanks Gadget and sorry about that Peter one. It was a relatively straight forward one we should have found. Now have entry on SCotlandspeople. Died age 15 months of measles - Julia the mother, lost 4 boys all around the age of about 2... what a hard life they had. My sister and I are doing this part of our family research together, and she couldn't find Peter. I am by no means an expert, but my sister is even a bit more of a learner than me. So, sorry, but again thank you very much for your efforts.
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Hey Friends,
thanks to your input, especially that of Sancti and Gadget, I have now extended my grandmothers list with yet another sibling (Elizabeth Margaret Mc Donald born 1867, died 1870). Makes it 11 children instead of 7!
Not only that, but even more, you have helped me understand IGI much better - which i am sure will help my further research of other parts of family.
Rootschat people are worth their weight in gold! Cheers everyone and Happy Researching!
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Hi again,
I am really struggling with the death of John McDonald - presuming that like 4 of his siblings, he died in infancy? He was born 4 April 1860 - have birth entry - to Arthur McDonald and Julia Maloney. (also have his baptism entry - so he at least lived a week or two!).
He does not appear on 1861 census with family (and there are loads of John Mcdonalds - infants - listed for general 1861 census records for Scotland.) He is never mentioned again with family - on any records. ?? Died between 4/4/1860 and 1861 census...? Have tried hard on Scotlandpeople, Family search. - only thing i haven't tried is Ancestry.
Help?? Any ideas anyone? What on earch could be options? Have looked at McDonald, MacDonald, M*Donald, McDonnell, McDonagh.......
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Hi
I had a good look for him and couldn't find anything that stood out. There were a few showing on SP but with wrong mother's surname or ages that were out.
I don't think he'll be listed in Ancestry BMDs unless the family moved to Eng or Wales briefly.
A possibility is that they called him by another name :-\
I'll have another look later.
Gadget
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Thank you very much Gadget - appreciate the continued interest and help.
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will try to pm you........Crookedtail