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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: AllStar on Saturday 02 January 10 20:27 GMT (UK)

Title: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 02 January 10 20:27 GMT (UK)
I amm looking to see if anyone can understand what the second marriage details are on the marraige record and what the place names are on the census for Robet Flynn and his wife. 
Also where about the census was taken (name in top left hand corner which I think starts with west side).
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: Rena on Saturday 02 January 10 21:03 GMT (UK)
I've done as much as I could :-

1862
June Ninth/Tenth ?
-?- Steward ?
After Banns according
to the form of the
Roman Catholic Church

Signed (Groom)
Thomas Dugan / aged 23 / Creetown/Creeburn?
Granite Quarry Labourer
Bachelor

Groom Parents/Witnesses::
William Dougan, retired granite ?
labourer

Helen Dougan
m.s. (maiden surname) Keeghan?

Bride: Signed
Cathrine Slim?-- / aged 23/ Wigtown
Domestic Servant
Spinster

Bride's Witness:  Robert Slimm? Labourer on -?-

--
Official signatories of Regular Marriage

Patrick Thos O'Gorman?
R.C.C.

Signed
James Kerr -?-
 Hellen? C--     -/- (Witness?)
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 02 January 10 21:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: Rockford on Saturday 02 January 10 21:20 GMT (UK)
Hi All Star,

To add to Rena's suggestions, I'd propose:

1862
June Tenth
Newton Stewart
After Banns according
to the forms of the
Roman Catholic Church

Signed (Groom)
Thomas Dugan / aged 23 / Creetown/Creeburn?
Granite Quarry Labourer
Bachelor

Groom Parents/Witnesses::
William Dougan, Retired Granite Quarry Labourer
Helen Dougan, m.s. (maiden surname) Keeghan?

Bride: Signed
Cathrine Flinn-- / aged 23/ Wigtown
Domestic Servant
Spinster

Bride's Parents Witness:
Robert Flinn Slimm[/s]? Labourer on Embankment
Mary Flinn, m.s. Lafferty

--
Official signatories of Regular Marriage

Patrick Thos O'Gorman?
R.C.C. {Roman Catholic Clergyman}

Signed
James Kerr, Witness
 Hellen C, Witness


The last column shows that the marriage was registered i.e. entered into the Registrar's records on 11 June 1862 at Newton Stewart by David Martin, Registrar.  The handwriting at the extreme right hand side shows that there was a clerical error made in Column 5, where you can see that he entered the bride's mother's maiden name as Cafferty and amended this to Lafferty.

I can't make out the surname of Helen, the second witness - if you could post a close up of this section, it might be possible.

Hope this helps,

Brian
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 02 January 10 21:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks.
Quote from: Rockford
I can't make out the surname of Helen, the second witness - if you could post a close up of this section, it might be possible.
Hope this helps,
Brian
[quote
I don't know how to do that sorry, but I myself have zommed in on the record I have and think it says Carenney/Larenney, or something like that.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: Isabel H on Saturday 02 January 10 23:24 GMT (UK)
Hellen Crenney, perhaps?

And on the census I think it says West side of Laigh Vennal.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 02 January 10 23:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks. Does anyone have an idea what the birth place for Robert Flynn on the census is?
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 02 January 10 23:58 GMT (UK)
Ireland- County Down...........Kilriggan?

Carol
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: magfly on Friday 27 May 11 02:22 BST (UK)
Hi there, I am descended from the same Flynn family you are posting about.  The handwriting on these old records is pretty awful. 

I can provide some of the information you are interested in learning about.

My great grandfather John Flynn was born in Wigtown Scotland in 1844 and he had a sister Catherine (and I would be very interested to learn more of her and her descendents).  They were the children of Robert Flynn and Mary (nee Laverty) and in the census records taken from 1841 onwards nominated their origins as both being from County Down in Northern Ireland.  Mary was from Drumaroad (a little village which still exists).  Robert nominated his origins as being Kilmegan which is an old historic parish area which can still be viewed on a historic parish map but it is difficult to tell where, within that area he came from.  Castlewellan is probably the nearest township of any significance.  I have a photo of Robert and Mary's grave in Wigtown and would be happy to post more information about them.  I would also be interested to know if you have any idea what became of the other Flynn siblings.

My ancestor John Flynn migrated to New Zealand in 1876.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: jancis on Friday 27 May 11 20:43 BST (UK)
I read the witness as Hel(l)en Cron(n)ey. I think the scribe just wasn't sure of his spelling!

Jill
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 28 May 11 15:20 BST (UK)
Hi there, I am descended from the same Flynn family you are posting about.  The handwriting on these old records is pretty awful. 
I can provide some of the information you are interested in learning about.

Hi there Magfly,
I'm glad to hear from a fellow descent. I hardly have any records on the Flynn side unfortunely. But what I have got seems to match up with yours, as she does have a brother John born 1844. Would Mary Laverty sometimes be translated as Lafferty?
To talk more you can personal message me on here. But as a new member I think you need to make at least three posts before you can do that.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: AllStar on Saturday 28 May 11 15:22 BST (UK)
I read the witness as Hel(l)en Cron(n)ey. I think the scribe just wasn't sure of his spelling!
Jill

Thanks Jill.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: magfly on Sunday 29 May 11 01:58 BST (UK)
Hello again Allstar.  Will try to log another message to get up to three messages.
Title: Re: Marraige cert 1862 and place names on census 1851
Post by: magfly on Sunday 29 May 11 02:01 BST (UK)
Hi Allstar, the surnames you enquire about are spelt in a number of different ways.  Laverty is indeed sometimes Lafferty and while the 'v' is used in most records I can recall that some years ago a cousin of mine obtained a copy of the entry of death and Mary was noted as "Lafferty".  In the days when full reading and writing wasn't something you could take for granted it is not surprising to see this.  I also note that Flynn/Flinn/Flin are common variations and the name is completely mistranscribed in the 1881 census as something completely different.

I am pleased to note that GG Grandfather Robert Flynn's occupation was given as embankment labourer.  Presumably this means he must have been employed on some sort of canal project near Wigtown?