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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: yelkcub on Thursday 31 December 09 20:38 GMT (UK)
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I am researching a HORSFALL family who came originally from Todmorden (Stansfield mainly). Some members moved to the Nelson area early in the 19th century, and some of those then migrated south to Rochdale (specifically Whitworth). If this connects with anything in your research I would be pleased to hear from you to exchange information
Ian
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There's an excellent Todmorden website, and Bull's Todmorden companion, with loads of links to local history / names and graveyard records, and registers. Can't recall the actual names to type in, but if you just put "Todmorden" into a search engine, ignore the ones from other countries than England, you'll soon find it. Good hunting. There are quite a lot of Horsfalls still in the area, I think.
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From his obituary published in the Rochdale Observer, Sat Nov 19, 1898, p. 3: 'James Horsfall was born in the year 1835 at Chamber House, Great Marsden near Briarfield, in Lancashire... While still a lad he came to reside with his uncle Hiram, who lived near Whitworth. Here among our own hills, he remained for some time, but he had no settled occupation. At the age of 17 he went to reside at Todmorden, having found employment as gardener for the late Abraham Stansfield at his extensive nurseries.'
Married Louisa Wass in 1860, Rochdale. Died Healey Nursery, Rochdale 1898. James and Louisa are my g-g-grandparents.
PJ Cosgrove, Sydney, Australia 29/5/2024
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As a former Rochdalian the name Horsfall is familiar to me, but can't think at the moment why. Perhaps there was a family business of that name. It does seem to have been the name of the architect of some of the Victorian buildings in the town.
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Hello PJ
The Hiram Horsfall you mention was, I think, the brother of my great grandfather, whose name was Hiram. My great grandfather, Frederick and his much younger brother James were sons of Hiram Horsfall (born Heptonstall 1810), the first of the Horsfall family to live at Whitworth. Hiram's father was Abraham (born 1786), who by 1841 had Chamber Hill farm in Briarfield, some way north of Whitworth. Abraham was born to a large family in what is now Todmorden.
Now ... Hiram (my g-g grandfather) died young in 1852 in his mid-thirties. When Hiram died his wife, Ann (Barker), was pregnant with a son, who was named Hiram after his late father. This Hiram would have been the 'Uncle Hiram' you mention. About a year later Ann remarried to a much older man called Robert Rudman, but 'your' Hiram retained the Horsfall surname. My great grandfather Frederick Matthew Horsfall was the son of Hiram and Ann. He was born in 1849 and had siblings (Anne, Thomas, Mariah) born obviously before Hiram, their father's death. After Anne's remarriage she gave birth to a son in 1855, Joseph Rudman––who was, therefore, the half brother of Frederick and 'your' Hiram.
Hope you can make sense of the above. Turning it into a diagram will help. Note that the first Hiram was born 1810, not the date given elsewhere.
Best wishes IAN
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Hi, Gillg
My Horsfall forebears (and there were quite a few of them) came originally from the area now known as Todmorden. Early in the 19th c they migrated (sensible move) to the Colne area of Lancs, then a branch moved down to Whitworth. No architects --mostly smalltime farmers, though one of them was for many years publican of The Red Lion, Whitworth. Horsfall is still the name of a smallish area of Todmorden ... there is even a Horsfall Hall. IAN
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Gillg,
You've just jogged the memory of another former Rochdalian. I was reading earlier of the designer of Rochdale cemetery in 1855, a man called Abraham Stansfield, assisted by 2 geologists, James Horsfall of Healey nursery and Robert Law of Todmorden. - second paragraph of Historic Development:
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1001565?section=official-list-entry
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That's great, TM.
PJ Cosgrove will be delighted to learn (if he doesn't already know) that his forebear James Horsfall was clearly eminent in his field, a skilled horticulturalist and garden designer.
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"Great Marsden" was the original name of Nelson, near Burnley, in Lancashire.
TY
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Hi Ian and Fellow Chatters,
I'm new to such group lists so bear with me.
To re-cap: according to James’ obituary ‘A FAMOUS BOTANIST AND FLINT COLLECTOR,
THE LATE JAMES HORSFALL OF HEALEY’ … James Horsfall was born in the year 1835 at Chamber House, Great Marsden near Briarfield, in Lancashire. His early life was a struggle with difficulties... While still a lad he came to reside with his uncle Hiram, who lived near Whitworth… At the age of 17 he went to reside at Todmorden, having found employment as gardener for the late Abraham Stansfield at his extensive nurseries… Mr. Horsfall soon became one of Mr. Stansfield's principal assistants, and in that capacity he was employed at Rochdale in planning and laying out the cemetery in Bury Rd. [James and fellow amateur geologist Robert Law created the geology trail in Rochdale Cemetery]. (Rochdale Observer, Sat Nov 19, 1898, p. 3).
Are these your Horsfalls? Is it possible that the James was not a son of Abraham and Hannah, but was ‘my’ James Horsfall?
The 1841 Census for Little Marsden (Lancashire, Whalley, Colne, District 37) has:
Abraham Horsfall, 55, Farmer, Not born in the county
Hannah do, 55, Labour [sic], Not born in the county
Hiram do, 25, Labour [sic], Not born in the county
Phillip Horsfall, 15, [sic], Not born in the county
James do, 6, do, Not born in the county
Ysabella [sic] Dyeson [sic], 1, Born in the county
James Horsfall, nurseryman/gardener and fern specialist married Louisa Wass. He had the Healey Nursery at Spotland. When James died in 1898, Louisa took over the nursery.
In the 1901 census, Rochdale, Spotland Nearer Side:
Louisa Horsfall, Head, Wid, 65, Market Gardener, Employer at Home, born Gulloram [Gulham], Lincs.
Frank Horsfall, Nephew, Single, 27, Gardener, Worker at Home, born Eastwood, Yorks.
Benjamin Horsfall, Nephew, Single, 18, Gardener, Worker at Home, born Burnley, Lancs.
Frank and Benjamin Horsfall were the sons of Luke Horsfall (c.1836-1893) and Eliza (Southwell) who were married at Halifax, Yorks in 1865. Luke died at Todmorden, Yorks.
As Frank and Benjamin were Louisa’s (James’) nephews, the suggestion is that Luke was James’ brother.
Is this family connected with yours?
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About James Horsfall and the geology trail at Rochdale Cemetery - ten years ago I was fortunate to be able to visit Rochdale Cemetery and follow the geology trail. I had already collected a number of newspaper and other articles about James and the trail so the visit to the cemetery was pre-planned.
It was only a couple of weeks ago that I found his obituary in the Rochdale Observer. It is quite long and detailed - a treasure trove, really with the descriptions of the man, his passions and dedication to his interests.
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PJ Cosgrove - I'm not a 'he', but a she, Patricia Josephine to be exact!
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Hi Ian,
Just to expand my family tree:
James and Louisa (Wass) Horsfall had three children:
James Henry Horsfall, b. 30 Jun 1861, Horsecroft in Spotland, Lancs.
Mary Agnes Horsfall, b. 1863, Whitworth, Lancs – married George Russell, 1886 at Healey. Admitted to Lancaster Lunatic Asylum 1897 and died there 1904.
Alfred Taylor Horsfall, b. 1865, Rochdale, Lancs.
Where did the Taylor come from in Alfred Taylor?
James Henry (my great grandfather) and Alfred Taylor emigrated to Australia as single men and gardeners, in 1883 and did not return to England.
PJ.