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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: greenpaula on Thursday 31 December 09 17:47 GMT (UK)

Title: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Thursday 31 December 09 17:47 GMT (UK)
Hi
Happy New Year all in Australia, we have 6.5 hours to go yet  :) :) :)
I need pointing in the right direction for an on-board death record please for John Hoey born Scotland in 1909.
All I've got is the family emigrating between 1925 - 1928 from Scotland to Brisbane - Peter Hoey born 1880, wife Bridget 1878, children Margaret 1903, John 1909 and Peter junior about 1912.
According to the daughter Margaret in a conversation with my sister in law around 1970, Margaret's brother John died on the ship to Australia.
Does anyone have any idea of where the record of his death might be?
Sorry to be vague about the sailing date. I can't find the family emigrating to Australia, but I have found daughter Margaret emigrating from Australia to USA in 1930, exactly as she said she did, and I've found the parents and son Peter in the Brisbane area on electoral rolls between 1936 and 1954.
Any help or advice will be gratefully received
 :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 00:13 GMT (UK)
BDM NSW

13647/1977  Peter HOEY father PETER mother BRIGID

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 00:22 GMT (UK)
Is this the mother?

QLD BDM

1960/41474 Bridget   Hoey father Patrick Hughes and mother Margaret Crumby

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 00:25 GMT (UK)
QLD BDM

No John death from 1829-1964

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 10:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Jamjar

Thanks so much - that's the son and the mother. Still looking for the elusive John, and of course the story he died on board ship on the way to Australia may be totally untrue!
I'll send off for these death certificates and see if there's any interesting info on them
 :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 11:05 GMT (UK)
I believe transcription agents are the way to go, as they are cheaper.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 11:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Jamjar
who or what is a transcription agent please?
 ???
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 11:55 GMT (UK)
Hopefully this will explain: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html

I've never used one as I'm obsessed the official document, but some on this forum swear by them.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 01 January 10 12:12 GMT (UK)
No transcription agents for Qld certificates unfortunately.
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Friday 01 January 10 12:14 GMT (UK)
No, but one saving is better than none.  ;)

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 01 January 10 12:30 GMT (UK)
No, but one saving is better than none.  ;)

Jamjar

You're not wrong Jamjar.  ;)

I've been thinking about this greenpaula, and wonder if the original shipping records may mention or give details of John's death? I know in earlier shipping records the number of deaths/births is noted in the immigration books and I imagine it would be the same for immigrations of this date. I have occassionally seen [dead] or [died on voyage] beside a person's name.

However, if the family paid their own passage there may be no details of their immigration.
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 12:55 GMT (UK)
FYI... Deaths were/are registered at the next port of call.

EG: if the next port of call after his death was New York it would be registered there, if it was Perth ot would be there, if you can understand what I mean.

Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 13:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks all of you for your help. I will use a transcription agent for one of the certs, thanks Jamjar.
I also have discovered Ruskie why I can't find the family emigrating - never knew if people paid their own way there would not be a record!
I do understand what you mean Merlin and I think I'll probably spend a few hours looking for death records in ports the ship may have called at on the way to Australi.After that I'll get back to my immediate ancestors.
 :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 14:46 GMT (UK)
There is a death obit for a Peter HOEY in the newspaper that matches the death index reg of 1977.

You can get a copy from the SLNSW & probably most larger ones that keep copies or microfilms of the newspaper.

HOEY Peter Death
Died 07 JUN 1977
Age 62  years
Late of Carlton
Sydney Morning Herald
Obit date: 08 JUN 1977

Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 16:05 GMT (UK)
Wow thanks for that Merlin  :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 16:22 GMT (UK)
I just realised that you are in Lancashire, I have many ancestors from there!

And seeing that you are all the way over there you won't be able to access that obit from Peter's death without paying for it.

Would you like me to arrange for a person to collect a transcript of it for free?

Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 16:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Merlin
Thanks so much for your offer - would be very grateful if you could get a transcript for me. I went searching and realised that this was going to cost me, but it would be useful to see if he had any children.
Can I do anything for you in Lancashire?
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 16:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the offer but at the moment I can't think of anything, I think 30 years of research & a book written on them is probably sufficent for the time being.

They are highly documented in the area from the 1700's due to who they were & what they did during their lives!

I've just found Peter's burial for you I'll post it now...
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 16:59 GMT (UK)
Peter's 1977 Burial:

Woronora General Cemetery and Crematorium - Sutherland, NSW.

NAME:     HOEY   PETER   
BURIAL:   RC LAWN L3/1854   
DOD:       07/06/1977
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Friday 01 January 10 17:01 GMT (UK)
Oh - I forgot to say there a few other Hoey's buried there also, but none are in the same graves as each other so I couldn't tell if they were related or not.

Hopefully the obit will give us some clues...
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Friday 01 January 10 17:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all your help Merlin. 30 years and a book - wow - my 5 years research pales into insignificance, and I'm intrigued - are you going to tell who they were?  :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: judb on Monday 04 January 10 03:34 GMT (UK)
Sydney Morning Herald 8 July 1997

HOEY, Peter - late of Carlton, beloved son of the late Bridget and Peter HOey, fond brother of Margaet (Mrs Shield, USA) an dearest friend of Rita, aged 62 years.

Funeral notice was in the SMH the following day:

1pm  9 June, 1997 at the church of St Bernadette, Argyle St, Carlton then to the Woronora Catholic Cemetery.  Undertaker: J & C Hardy, Rockdale and Hurstville.

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Monday 04 January 10 03:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks Judith,

I phone my friend & tell her to cancel her visit to the SLNSW for the lookup as you have so kindly done it already for greenpaula.

~MERLIN~
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Monday 04 January 10 08:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info Judith, Greatly appreciated.
Thank you too Merlin for all your efforts. You still haven't told me who your Lancashire relations are/were!
 :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Monday 04 January 10 09:17 GMT (UK)
Sorry greenpaula,

The weekend was very busy...  8)

Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 05 January 10 07:39 GMT (UK)
Hi greenpaula,

I'll duck out to Woronora, when I return to Sydney, next week, and take a photo of the burial site for you.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 05 January 10 12:27 GMT (UK)
Hi greenpaula,

Peter Jnr's WW2 service http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=A&VeteranID=44669 (it shows his full date of birth)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Tuesday 05 January 10 13:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much Jamjar, you are so kind,
Thanks to you too Dundee - I never even thought about searching for service records in Australia.
Am off to look at the link you've posted.
I only joined this site a couple of months ago and still can't get over how kind Rootschatters are
 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 06:58 GMT (UK)
Hi greenpaula,

I have photos for you. Could you PM me an email address, please?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 08:07 GMT (UK)
Rita Demas is buried with Peter. I wonder what the relationship was?

http://www.womenaustralia.info/exhib/honours/d.html

Rita's birth, NSW BDM: 8920/1906 Rita K father Leo J and  mother Elizabeth, at WATERLOO   

They weren't married. As they are buried in the catholic section, I wonder if Peter had been married and was unable to get a divorce?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: judb on Saturday 09 January 10 10:06 GMT (UK)
Electoral rolls show Rita living with her parents until 1954 (which is the extent of my access)

1930 Ellen DEMAS, HD and John Frederick DEMAS, labourer, Leonidas DEMAS tailor, Rita Kathleen DEMAS telephoniste and Elizabeth DEMAS HD at 43 Willison Rd Carlton  (or Kogarah West - seems to have two suburb names)
1933, 1937, 1943 Leonidas DEMAS tailor, Rita Kathleen DEMAS telephoniste and Elizabeth DEMAS HD at 43 Willison Rd Carlton  (or Kogarah West - seems to have two suburb names)
1949, 1954 Rita and Elizabeth only - same address

Can only find an elctoral roll entry for  Peter HOEY steward, 1954 in Bondi, but the death notice for him said 'of Carlton' so perhaps he lived with them, or lived in after 1954.

Ryerson has the following for Rita:
DEMAS Rita Kathleen died 15 March, 1980  late of Carlton Notice in Sydney Morning Herald 17 March, 1980 

Judith
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 10:44 GMT (UK)
As they are in the same grave I'd think 'lived with her', might have been the case.

Why would a telephonist get an O.B.E? What's a B.E.M, that is also on her plaque?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 11:03 GMT (UK)
Could this be it? http://www.vvaa.org.au/med-bem.htm
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 11:06 GMT (UK)
She has a record on National Archives. Miss Rita Kathleen Demas - ISM [Imperial Service Medal] 1970

Her father's record is there for viewing.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: judb on Saturday 09 January 10 11:55 GMT (UK)
The Imperial Service Medal was instituted in 1902 to recognize distinguished public service at junior levels of the British civil services and the civil services of Commonwealth countries.

http://www.womenaustralia.info/exhib/honours/ism.html

Judith
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 09 January 10 22:18 GMT (UK)
Photos sent.  :)

Jamjar
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Sunday 10 January 10 13:06 GMT (UK)
Got the photos Jamjar  - they are superb, thank you so much.
Peter's friend Rita is very interesting isn't she?
I've been in touch with my sister in law in the USA who knew Peter's sister Maggie very well in Maggie's later years (Maggie died in 1985 in New York)
Apparently Maggie always said Peter never married, he was an airline steward with Quantas and Maggie saw him fairly regularly when he flew to the USA.
From the evidence it seems Peter was very close to Rita Demas and most probably did live with her.
His family were strong RC and I suspect his parents and Maggie were kept in the dark if he was living with a lady and not married. Even 25 - 30 years ago it was frowned upon. 
On the other hand, if he was free to do so why did he not marry Rita?
I'm off now to forward the photos to sis in law.
Thanks again to all who have helped me in this search. :)
Title: Re: Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: Jamjar on Sunday 10 January 10 20:39 GMT (UK)
If curiosity ever gets the better of you it would be worth getting his death certificate, which would tell you if he was married, or not.

Always happy to take photos.

Jamjar
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: STEPHENsaffin on Monday 03 October 11 21:32 BST (UK)
Hello, please forgive the intrusion, i'm a newbie, but you just might be able to help me. I'v been given the task of researching the mother and family of a Kevin Hoey, who was given up to Barnado's born in Finchley 1931, the mothers name on his birth certificate is Rita Hoey, the registrar has also put in 'A Masseuse' under her name. There was a catholic marriage of a Rita Rose Hoey to a Herbert Edward Collins in 1938, but I'm only guessing they are one and the same. Her father is given in the marriage certificate as peter Hoey deceased. A Garage proprietor. I can find no birth record for Rita, and I'm guessing that she was Italian. Would you be interested in helping me push this investigation further at all?
You can contact me on (*)

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Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: majm on Thursday 06 October 11 03:49 BST (UK)
Hi there Stephen,

Welcome to Rootschat.

May I ask if the chap who was given up to Barnado's is still living?  The surname HOEY is found on electoral rolls from Federation times in central west of NSW, so perhaps the Italian suggestion could be either a red herring or earlier than you may have considered... 

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: majm on Thursday 06 October 11 04:29 BST (UK)
Following up on Rita DEMAS and the earlier posts re the electoral rolls and NSW BDM 1906 ...

From NSW Electoral Roll for 1903, SOUTH SYDNEY, polling at Alexandria (first time females enrolled to vote, the two different addresses could simply be that Lizzie enrolled for that first female opportunity and that Leo had not yet updated his earlier address, but that suggestion is really only speculation on my part)

Leo J DEMAS, 8 John St, a tailor
Lizzie DEMAS, 8a Pickup St, domestic duties

From Sands Directory Sydney Alphabetical 1905
HOEY:
Henry, 28 Dickson St Newtown
Mrs J, 41 Short St Balmain
John, 4 Zamia St Redfern
Robert, 1 Union St Balmain

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: STEPHENsaffin on Thursday 06 October 11 04:44 BST (UK)
Yes he is, in the UK, obviously hoping to find any living brothers or sisters.
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: majm on Thursday 06 October 11 04:52 BST (UK)
Agh, perhaps this thread will help explain

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368728.msg2632620.html#msg2632620

Many Cheers,

JM
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: salbou on Friday 11 July 14 05:20 BST (UK)
I have just come across this site, and really don't know how it works etc. I just did a quick search for family and I have come across this conversation. Not sure what the connection is :-) Anyway Rita Demas was my father's aunt. Leonidas & Elizabeth Demas were my fathers grandparents.
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: salbou on Wednesday 23 July 14 00:12 BST (UK)
Hi there greenpaula, I am unsure if you will see this message as I see this thread is quite old. Anyway, as per my previous message, Rita Demas was my dad's aunt. I've had a chat to him, and I can certainly answer all of the questions raised in this thread regarding Rita and Peter. Thanks.
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Saturday 09 August 14 14:24 BST (UK)
Hi Salbou
Sorry for the delay in responding - I have changed my e-mail address and forgot to update Rootschat.
I'd be fascinated to learn more about Rita and Peter Hoey. He is on my husband's side of the family, and I have some photos and lots of info now on him and his family if you are interested. :)
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: salbou on Monday 11 August 14 09:52 BST (UK)
Hi greenpaula, thanks for your message. So just following on from some of the questions raised in earlier conversations on this topic, I can tell you the following:
Rita was engaged in early years to a sailor who was subsequently killed in the war.
She was a telephonist, however she was also very involved in the NSW Trade Union and it was through this that she received an OAM.
She was friends with Peter for years, who was a steward for Qantas, and eventually they did get married, which is why they are buried together (however I am not sure why she didn't change her name).
Rita was my dad's aunt. Her sister was my grandmother. I would be very interested in any other information you may have, or any photos you may have of Rita. I will also certainly try to find out if there may be photos floating around within my family of Peter that may be of interest to you, however this may take some time :-)
Hope this helps!
Title: Re: COMPLETED Death on a ship from UK to Australia
Post by: greenpaula on Wednesday 13 August 14 19:15 BST (UK)
Hi Salbou,
I've sent you a personal message re photos - I have one of Peter and possibly his parents if you would like to see them, and quite a bit more info on him too. Only know what is on this thread about Rita  :)