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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: jsimons on Thursday 31 December 09 12:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: jsimons on Thursday 31 December 09 12:37 GMT (UK)
Hi,

 I have several policeman ancestors/relatives in the family and came accross this photo - if anyone could date it that would be great for identifying who it may be and also it is faded in places so a little touch up too would be great.

Cheers and have a good night tonight - Happy New year!  ;)

Joel
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Paul Caswell on Thursday 31 December 09 13:16 GMT (UK)
Looks like some sort of Policeman's funeral. Any idea what part of the world we're in? London perhaps?

Paul
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: RecycledHippy on Thursday 31 December 09 13:38 GMT (UK)
A quick tidy up

Hippy :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 31 December 09 14:14 GMT (UK)
For a date,early part of the 20th.C,possibly as late as 1910.

jim
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: jsimons on Thursday 31 December 09 15:19 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

 That looks much better - any chance of a higher resolution like how I uploaded it as it looks like i might be able to read the shop signs better. Can anyone zoom and hazard a guess as to what they say too.

 As for the date 1900s is what I'd say but the ONLY person that died in the police was Sergeant Samuel Bransom who died in 1888 which is a bit far out. Again I'd agree as if you zoom there is like a horse drawn hurse and the other bobbies are wearing white gloves.

Any more help greatly appreciated thanks all! ;)

Joel
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 17:10 GMT (UK)
Can't see much of the ladies' outfits but it's definitely not 1888 here...as Jim says, more like maybe 1908-1910 or so.

The sign on the left says MOORE and I think the sign on the right says PARKER & Co.

What do the policemen have draped over their left shoulders? Would it be a mourning cloth?

Interesting photo...

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 31 December 09 17:52 GMT (UK)
Back then the Police wore capes.

jim
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 18:00 GMT (UK)
Ah. So they are carrying the cape over the left shoulder.

So if it's a funeral, wouldn't they all be showing a mourning band at least?

That's a huge carriage in the back...would a hearse be that big?
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Ebch on Thursday 31 December 09 18:05 GMT (UK)
Could it be Edward V11's Funeral?  May 1910?  It certainly is quite a procession for those days.  :)
White gloves are part of their uniform for formal events
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 19:09 GMT (UK)
I've just been looking at images of that funeral and I don't think there's enough pomp etc for it...not enough outriders, military, and the furry feathery shako coverings, there were a lot of white ones in the photos I saw.

Good input though, you may be onto something...who else died around that time who would warrant a big procession?
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 19:12 GMT (UK)
Florence Nightingale did...but the photos show two coachmen. I still think the carriage looks too tall for a horsedrawn hearse...
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 19:16 GMT (UK)
Here's some photos of corteges, surprisingly (to me anyway) they are still using the same type of carriage...one of the photos is from 2002.

Maybe the tall thing in the back is not a carriage...

http://www.ourgreatyarmouth.org.uk/page_id__245_path__0p3p41p72p.aspx
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 19:36 GMT (UK)
How about the Fire Captain's funeral, London 1908?

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/51268552/Hulton-Archive
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Ebch on Thursday 31 December 09 19:47 GMT (UK)
Is there not a big banner being carried behind the hearse? 
(This is getting like the ANY IDEAS pic  :) )
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Ebch on Thursday 31 December 09 19:49 GMT (UK)
And the Suffragettes were marching around 1910 - but would the police have worn white gloves to accompany them - maybe not  :-[
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Geoff-E on Thursday 31 December 09 19:53 GMT (UK)
Many of the crowd are just walking along, paying no particular notice to the procession.  :-\
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Bilge on Thursday 31 December 09 19:58 GMT (UK)
http://www.northants.police.uk/museum_new/exhibits/15/history.htm

this gives a basic description of uniforms.

http://www.met.police.uk/history/archives.htm
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Bilge on Thursday 31 December 09 20:03 GMT (UK)
No.1 dress is worn with black, polished shoes or boots. Constables and Sergeants in English and Welsh forces wear the Custodian Helmet with this dress, whereas the peaked cap is worn by Inspectors and above. At more formal occasions, such as funerals and parades, white gloves are worn.
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Paul Caswell on Thursday 31 December 09 20:52 GMT (UK)
How about the funeral of PC William Tyler and 10-year-old Ralph Joscelyne.

See the Tottenham Outrage 1909

http://www.met.police.uk/history/tottenham_outrage.htm

Paul
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Thursday 31 December 09 21:41 GMT (UK)
The thing in back looks more like a pirate ship. What sort of carriage would have that mast-like structure with a crossbeam on top?

There are 3 men riding. When a coachman (or whatever he's called in this position) is riding one of the horses in a pair, he seems to be sitting on the left-hand horse. I could only find one photo of this. So...the men in our photo seem to be on the wrong side for this.
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: justmej on Friday 01 January 10 01:41 GMT (UK)
Another one to possibly consider was the Houndsditch Murders, when three police officers were killed in the line of duty, in December of 1910...

http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/law/city/cityphotos.html
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 02:26 GMT (UK)
Oh, that's a good one...that would account for the 3 riders. Here's another photo...seems to be the right kind of gloomy, foggy day. Mind you, that's not unusual in London :)
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 02:33 GMT (UK)
Hey, there was a Parker & Co in Bishopsgate, Houndsditch!

Forgot the link...it's 1966, but a family business could easily have been there for several decades.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1966/1966%20-%201172.html
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 02:45 GMT (UK)
Furthermore, when I continued googling parker, bishopsgate and houndsditch...my own post showed up, from 8 minutes before. That's really impressive.
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 01 January 10 12:47 GMT (UK)
Therre are x2 different vehicles here...One not so high with a driver and what appear to be flowers atop, rather like a hearse, then a much larger, Omnibus type further back.

I would say funeral...

Date...Just before, or even during WW1...Not many chaps in the crowd
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 16:49 GMT (UK)
Yes, I think it's an omnibus now, and you can see someone riding it on the top.
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 17:25 GMT (UK)
I just found an old Pathé film of the siege of Sidney St:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=82760
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 17:30 GMT (UK)
Here's another, with a good shot of a very tall omnibus and another with a lovely fire engine.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=84933
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: Paul Caswell on Friday 01 January 10 17:45 GMT (UK)
Very interesting!

Your links didn't work for me but this should for others if you share my problem.

http://www.britishpathe.com/results.php?search=siege+of+Sidney+St

Paul

Added: They work fine now ... what an interesting resource. :)
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 19:13 GMT (UK)
Well, wonder what went wrong...I have corrected the links... :P
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: justmej on Friday 01 January 10 22:21 GMT (UK)
Hey, there was a Parker & Co in Bishopsgate, Houndsditch!
Forgot the link...it's 1966, but a family business could easily have been there for several decades.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1966/1966%20-%201172.html

Oooh very interesting China!
Oddly enough I had just put the same link for the Pathé News in the Common Room a few days ago too!!! :o  Will have another look at it, as at the time I was more excited that I might of discovered my gg uncle in the clip! ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,427087.0.html
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: justmej on Friday 01 January 10 22:38 GMT (UK)
Here's another, with a good shot of a very tall omnibus and another with a lovely fire engine.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=84933

Saw them this time ;D. 

Of course, going back to the original picture, the police officers do not appear to be City of London Police (different helmet badge) but of course the City Police were not the only officers involved at the time of the siege in 1911, so still a possibility... especially as China has found a Parker & Co in Bishopsgate!

justmej
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: chinakay on Friday 01 January 10 22:45 GMT (UK)
Came across this photo too, but I'm not sure if it's a real street scene or a scene from the film in 1960...
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: justmej on Sunday 03 January 10 17:14 GMT (UK)
Came across this photo too, but I'm not sure if it's a real street scene or a scene from the film in 1960...

Not sure China, although the one on the right has a look of Ricky from Eastenders ;D
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: TomFE on Sunday 03 January 10 18:59 GMT (UK)
Notice how many people on the left are staring at, I think, the camera. As if it's a novelty to them?
Title: Re: Policemen everywhere! Date and touch up please
Post by: justmej on Sunday 03 January 10 20:07 GMT (UK)
Spooky! :o... today is the anniversary of the Sidney Street siege... 3rd January 1911 ???

Back to the original picture, could the hazy 'somethings' either side of the possible omnibus, be carrying flowers too?

TomFE, I imagine you are referring to the original pic and not the street scene posted by chinakay?  If so, I see what you mean, although it could be that they are simply walking in the same direction as the procession and have caught sight of the camera... and then again, it could have been a novelty to some, to suddenly discover a camera pointed in their direction.

justmej