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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: DrElaine on Tuesday 29 December 09 14:57 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for details of John Norwell and his family, who emigrated from England to Canada between 1911 and 1922.
John Norwell (born Scotland 1862), emigrated in 1916; dyer
Wife Isabella Norwell (nee Ramsay, born Scotland, c 1864), emigrated in 1916
Daughter Mary Ann (born Scotland, 1886), emigrated in 1911; feather curler
Daughter Grace Ellen (born Scotland, 1889), emigrated in 1911; feather curler
Daughter Elizabeth (born Scotland, 1891), date of emigration unknown; feather curler
Daughter Margaret Winifred (born London, 1896), emigrated 1911; possibly feather curler
Son John Archibald (born London, 1897), married Martha Anderton in 1918, daughter Joyce born in London in 1918, emigrated in 1919 (Martha & Joyce followed in 1920); mechanic
Son Thomas Samuel (born London, 1898), emigrated in 1919; motor engineer
Daughter Alice Florence (born London, 1902), emigrated in 1917; telephone operator (in 1936)
Son Albert Henry (born London, 1905), emigrated in 1916
Grand-daughter Theresa May (born London, 1908), emigrated in 1916.
I have details of the births, the ships on which all travelled, and their occupations (with the exception of Alice's) are those given on landing in Canada. The last known address for John senior is 935 Dundas Street, Toronto, in 1922, when his eldest daughter, Isabellea Scott Norwell visited for a year on a teacher exchange scheme; Isabella claimed that her entire family were in Canada at this time. Otherwise, the last known details date from their arrival in Canada. The family were Roman Catholic.
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Winnifred Margaret Norwell, 20, Baptist, d/o John Norwell and Isabella Ramsay married Robert Hall Mitchell, 20, Tailor, Baptist, s/o John Mitchell and Jessie Hall on 17 Jan 1916 at Toronto.
Mary Norwell, 24, RC, d/o John Nowell (clerk), and Isabella Ramsay married Robert George Brooks, 26, carpenter, Church of England, s/o Robert John Brooks (clerk) and Ellen Puttock on 13 Dec 1911 at Toronto (St. Luke's).
Grace Helen Norwell, 23, feather curler, d/o John Thaddeus Norwell (dyer) and Isabella Ramsay married Peter Edward Luck, 30, s/o Christopher Luck and Anna Edwards on 23 Jan 1913 at Toronto with Elizabeth L. Norwell of 788 Yonge St. Toronto a witness. Marriage at St. Joseph's (Roman Catholic).
Debbie
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http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/
There is an Albert H. Norwell buried in Our Lady of Mount Carmel cemetery, Peterborough County, Belmont Township. Details from the headstone can be obtained from the appropriate genealogical society.
Debbie
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Thanks so much, Debbie!
I have also now found a death notice in the Toronto Star for Grace Ellen, who appears to have been the first of the Canadian-based siblings to die on November 26th 1969 (eldest sister Isabella had died in England in 1956); she was buried in Mount Hope cemetery. This lists all of her brothers and sisters, most of whom were known by abbreviations of their forenames; all of the girls had married.
Grace Ellen had married Peter Edward Luck (as you indicate), who predeceased her.
Mary Ann (known as Mae) was, as you indicate, Mrs Brooks
Lillian (presumably Elizabeth) was Mrs T Pettitt
Winnifred was, as you indicate, Mrs Mitchell
Alice was Mrs Rowley (she must have married sometime after 1936, when as a spinster, she travelled to England with sister Isabella for a holiday)
Teresa (known as Tess) was Mrs H Decaire
The boys were known as John, Tom and Fred.
I also found a death notice for father John, who died on 4th January 1936. I suspect that mother Isabella died in early 1947 or late 1946, as an acknowledgement notice of support in 'our recent bereavement' was placed in the Toronto Star of 13th Feb 1947.
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The witnesses for Winnifred Margaret's wedding were Thomas Ernest Pettitt and Elizabeth Pettitt of 22 Davenport Rd. I couldn't find a corresponding marriage for Elizabeth Lillian Norwell to Thomas Pettit in ancestry records.
Debbie
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They already have 2 children by the time of Thomas Ernest's signup in 1915!
12th regiment York Rangers recruited him earlier as well as the Niagra Rangers
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=573406&PHPSESSId
This might be his census entry in 1911, not that it helps ;D
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=53105
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I am the great grandaughter of John and Isabella Norwell.
My grandmother was Elizabeth Norwell (Pettitt). I have 3 siblings
and we live in Toronto Ontario Canada.
Any relatives out there?
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I am looking for information on Martha Anderton who married John Archibald (born London, 1897), married in 1918, daughter Joyce born in London in 1918, emigrated in 1920 with Joyce settling in Toronto, Ontario Canada. I do not know Martha's year of birth. I believe she may have taken the surname of her mother (Anderton). I believe she had 2 sisters, one named Mae and a brother. She was a strict Protestant with the Salvation Army. She may have had other children in England. In Canada she gave birth to Bernard, Raymond, and twin girls Helen Mae and Barbara Joan. There is a possibility she was born in Gilford Surrey or London.
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat!!
You could order the marriage certificate from the GRO. The information you would need is on the Free BMD site:
Martha Anderton and James A. Norwell, married in the Dec Q 1918 in Paddington. Volume 1a, page 176.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jp2/
I checked the Toronto Star pagesofthepast site and I found the obituaries for both Martha and John Norwell. John died Jan 5, 1978. The obituary doesn't say how old he was, but it givew the names of 3 daughters, and their husbands' names. I can't post the full names here, because these people might be living, and Rootschat has a policy of not mentioning living people by full name. The daughters' initials are J, H, and B. John is buried in York Cemetery, Toronto. The obituary is in the Jan 6th edition of the paper, page C16.
Martha died at the York Central Hospital, Richmond Hill (just north of Toronto) on April 11, 1967. The obit also mentions the same 3 daughters and their husbands. No age is given for Martha, but she is also buried in the York Cemetery. No maiden name is listed for her. The obituary is in the April 12th edition of the paper, page 48.
The pagesofthepast site is a paid site, but not very expensive.
http://pagesofthepast.ca/
If you live anywhere near Toronto, your library may subscribe to the database, and you could have free access.
If you make 2 more posts on Rootschat (just to say Hi), I can send you the daughters' names by PM (Personal Message).
You can try to contact the York Cemetery to see if the tombstone shows Martha's birth date... This could give you Martha's birth year.
http://www.mountpleasantgroup.com/pre-planning/cemeteries/properties/y
This cemetery is part of the Mount Pleasant group. They have a steep charge for doing genealogical research, but I hope they can give you a birth year without charging a lot. It never hurts to ask!!!
RK
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As you can see from my original post, it is the family of Martha's husband John Archibald Norwell that I have been focusing on. John and Martha married in London in the last quarter of 1918; their first daughter, Joyce, was born in the same quarter. I have not yet ordered the marriage and birth certificates, so cannot confirm exact dates or locations at present.
A search of the British censuses shows a Martha Anderton of approximately the right age (12 years) living at 30 Waldo Road, College Park, Fulham, London in 1911. Her birthplace is given as Hammersmith, London. In 1911, she was living with her father Thomas (a sweeper), mother Elizabeth, sisters Elizabeth (aged 17) and Alice (aged 20, and married, with her married name being Tobin) and her niece Ivey (aged 1, daughter of Alice). The census shows that there had been a total of 5 children born to the marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth, all 5 of whom were still living, and that Thomas and Elizabeth had been married for 16 years. Tracking back to the 1901 census, Martha was 2 years of age, and the family were again living in Waldo Road, albeit at number 24. All five children - William (13), Alice (11), Thomas (9), May (who appears to be calling herself Elizabeth by 1911!) (7) and Martha (2) are listed, along with parents Thomas (on this occasion, described as a landscape gardener) and Elizabeth. Martha's age in the censuses suggests that she was born c.1899. A search of BMD records shows a Martha Anderton born in the 4th quarter of 1898 in Fulham, London (for administrative purposes, Fulham and Hammersmith appear to be inter-changeable).
The next post will provide further information about John & Martha
Kind regards
Elaine
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Martha Anderton's husband, John Archibald Norwell was born on 15th September 1897 at 270 Lancaster Road, Notting Hill, London. He was the 7th child (out of 10 offspring) and first son of John Norwell (1862-1936) and Isabella Ramsay (1863-1947); one of his sisters, Charlotte, had died two years previously at the age of 3. The family were originally from Perth, Scotland, but had moved to London sometime between 1893 and 1895, where John senior worked as a dyer. The family were Roman Catholic; it seems that John Archibald's grandfather (yet another John Norwell, c.1829-1900) converted to Catholicism on his marriage in 1858 in Perth.
John Archibald was lame. A newspaper account in the Daily Express (London) of 22nd July 1911 reported that John Norwell, aged 12, and another local boy, Philip Ross, aged 13, were being recommended to the Royal Humane Society for conspicuous bravery. A schoolfellow fell into the Grand Junction Canal, and John dived in to save him; he succeeded in bringing his friend to the canal bank, but was exhausted by the effort. Philip saw both boys in difficulty and went into the canal to their rescue. The Daily Express further reported the boys’ receipt of their award (testimonial on vellum, awarded ‘where someone has put themselves in considerable danger to save, or attempt to save, someone else’) from the Royal Humane Society, in early December 1911.
Probably because of his disability, it appears that John did not see active service in World War I, although he would have turned 18 in 1915, and therefore have been eligible for conscription after the enactment of the Military Service Act in March 1916.
As indicated above, John's older sisters emigrated to Canada from 1911 onwards, with his parents and younger siblings following in 1916 and 1917. John and his younger brother Thomas then followed their parents and siblings to Canada in 1919. Thomas (by then aged 20) was the first to travel, departing Liverpool (sailing 3rd class) on 5th July on the Sicilian, bound for Quebec. On the outgoing passenger manifest, Thomas, in common with many of the male passengers, was recorded as being a farmer, perhaps to avail of assisted passage. On arrival at Quebec on 16th July, however, Thomas gave his occupation in England as motor engineer and indicated that this was the trade he intended following in Canada. He stated that he was travelling to join his parents at 65 (West) Jarvis Street Toronto. Brother John Archibald (then aged 22) followed, without wife Martha and daughter Joyce, on 17th October 1919, sailing from Liverpool to Quebec on the Melita. He gave his trade as mechanic and indicated his intention to settle in Canada.
Elaine
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John Norwell's eldest sister (and therefore Martha Anderton's sister in law) Isabella Scott Norwell was now the only member of her immediate family remaining in the UK. On 28th July 1920, she too sailed for Canada, accompanying her sister-in-law Martha Anderton and niece Joyce. They travelled 3rd class from Liverpool to Quebec on the Empress of France. On the outgoing passenger manifest, Isabella’s initials are confusingly given as IL, her age as 29 years, and her occupation as ‘domestic’; none of these details are correct. The accompanying M Norwell is described as 'wife' (this was the usual designation for a married woman, regardless of whether she was accompanied on the voyage by her husband), and the infant is stated to be four months old, though Joyce was by now almost two years of age. The Canadian landing records from 4th August 1920 are more accurate. Isabella was described as a 35 year old teacher (place of birth Scotland, nationality Scottish, religion R.C.). She was stated to be visiting her parents at 65 Jarvis Street, Toronto; they had paid her passage. In the space on the landing card for ‘nearest relative in the country from whence passenger came’, Isabella stated ‘None’. Martha meanwhile indicated that she was travelling to rejoin her husband, giving the same address in Toronto as Isabella had done, and stated as her nearest relative in the UK her sister, a Mrs W Walker of NW London. Surprisingly, in the light of what Diggs says about Martha being a staunch Protestant and member of the Salvation Army, and subsequent information (see below), Martha's religious affiliation was also recorded as R.C. on her landing card.
I have recently received information from the priest in charge of St Ann’s Church, Toronto that Martha converted from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism in April 1922, her godmother was a Mrs M Norwell (possibly the wife of brother Thomas?).
The initials of daughters, mentioned on obituary notices which RunKitty refers to, seem to fit with the names Diggs mentions. Baptismal records at St Ann’s RC Church, Toronto show that an Isobel (sic) Norwell was god-mother to a John Raymond Norwell (actually christened Raymond John), who was born on July 25th 1922 and whose father was John Norwell (born in England) and whose mother was Martha Anderson (sic); this could be his aunt Isabella Scott Norwell, who was in Toronto round about this time, on a teacher exchange, or his grandmother Isabella Norwell (nee Ramsay). Obituary notices in the Toronto Star show that John Raymond (sic) died on 1st May 1946 at St Catherine's. Ontario; his parents' address at that time is given as 42 Cromwell Avenue; sisters J, H and B are mentioned, and the interment was in Mount Pleasant Cemetery.
If you would like a more detailed story of the family, from the perspective of Isabella Scott Norwell, please send me a PM and I will be pleased to share it with you
Kind regards
Elaine
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Hi RunKitty,
Thank you for your time and information. I'm new at all this and am still trying to find my way.
I found out my local library does subscribe to the Toronto Star database and I was able to have free access to view the obituaries you gave info on. I was also able to locate other Norwell's in the Toronto Star - (John Thaddeus Norwell who died Sat. Jan. 4, 1936, and Grace Luck (nee Norwell) who passed Wed. Nov. 26, 1969.)
I do not need the names of the 3 daughters of John Archibald Norwell and Martha Anderton, as Joyce and H are my aunts and B is my mother. Many years ago I visited Mount Pleasant cemetery to visit my Uncle Raymond John Norwell grave site and was able to obtain his birth/death dates (July 25, 1922 - May 1, 1946) as well as his plot information (Section 33 Lot 1519).
Thanks again for the detail and I hope once I get PM's working we can share more detail.
Diggs
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Hello Dr. Elaine,
Thank you for taking the time to post so much information about the Norwell and Anderton families! I am new to all this and am grateful and overwhelmed with all the detail. I have many questions to ask, however, need to sort them out logically before I post.
I am a grandaughter of John Archibald Norwell (1897-1978) and Martha Anderton (1898/9? -1967). My mother is their youngest twin daughter B. (May 12, 1933)
Once I get my PM up and working I would love to hear more about my great Aunt Belle, as my mother refers to her. I know she was a school teacher.
My mother believes for about 1 year she taught at Jesse Ketchum Public School - 61 Davenport Road, Toronto. Mom claims due to religious reasons, Belle was R.C., she could not continue to teach there and had to return to England where she began teaching at an all boys school.
Looking forward to sharing further detail,
Diggs
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I am the great grandaughter of John and Isabella Norwell.
My grandmother was Elizabeth Norwell (Pettitt). I have 3 siblings
and we live in Toronto Ontario Canada.
Any relatives out there?
I am also a great granddaughter of John and Isabella Norwell.
My grandfather John Archibald Norwell is your grandmother Elizabeth Norwell younger brother.
My mother is his youngest twin daughter B.
I am the eldest of 4. I have 2 sisters and a brother.
I have 4 children -3 daughters and a son.
My siblings, mother and I all live withing travelling distance of the GTA.