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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: nudge67 on Saturday 26 December 09 03:10 GMT (UK)

Title: Cradlesnatching
Post by: nudge67 on Saturday 26 December 09 03:10 GMT (UK)
I recently heard on the radio something about a study being done into socially acceptable age gaps between spouses in western culture. The researchers came up with this formula:

Halve the age of the eldest spouse, then add seven. The marriage is socially acceptable if the age of the younger spouse is equal to, or above, the resulting number.

Example: I married at 27. 27 divided by two is 13.5. Adding seven makes 20.5. My wife was 21 when we married, so it fits within the formula.

Are there any cradlesnatchers in your family tree?
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Nick29 on Saturday 26 December 09 09:41 GMT (UK)
I don't think people had the luxury of that formula in preceding generations.   With so much death around (especially amongst women in childbirth), "marriages of convenience" were quite common.  People often appeared to marry again with undue haste, but for men the priority was to find a mother for their children, so they could carry on the duties of bread-winner, and widowed women needed a home and a regular household income.  This seems to be quite cold, but that's often the way it was.

However, you also come across some people who do not fit the above category.  In my tree, my dad's Aunt Eliza married at the age of 38 to a man of 20.  However, the poor woman was widowed within 4 years when her husband developed a TB infection.

Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Kevinshouse on Saturday 26 December 09 10:26 GMT (UK)
My 2 x g grandad William was married to a woman called Martha who died, he was a farmer and on the 1851 census was a widower with farm servants living with him, however on the 1861 census he had a housekeeper Martha and her sister Ruth living with them and two very young children, one called William.  William and Martha were having children together although unmarried ,the third child Herbert was my g grandfather.  William eventually married Martha when she was pregnant with their 7th child. William was 34years older than Martha! William as well as owing land and farming was a constable of the parish.  I have lots of information about William and Martha, and know that William was older than Marthas father.  I suppose she married for security and he was probably very happy to have a young woman with whom he could have children.
Kind regards Susan
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 26 December 09 11:51 GMT (UK)
Oh yes  :D

When Thomas Archbell married Catherine Croslan in 1767 he was a widower (actually twice) aged 60 and upwards, whilst Catherine was 25 and upwards, and a spinster.  However, I believe he may have been older than 60 - the only baptism I can find for a Thomas Archbell is in 1699, and his burial in 1774 doesn't give any age at all to confirm or refute this theory. Catherine was baptised 1742, so her age is probably correct.  It didn't stop them having a son, born 1769.   :)  Following Thomas's death Catherine went on to have two more children, and was excommunicated as a result in 1782  :o :o

BumbleB
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Hazel17 on Saturday 26 December 09 13:14 GMT (UK)
I think I have just discovered in my tree a widow aged 53-54 marrying a man aged 27-28 in 1849. She had no children that she was still supporting. They are both being a bit elusive on censuses so hard to pin down to see if I am right. If I am right he appears to have left her and married a woman closer to his age. But whether he was a widow or not at marriage  I'm yet to find out.

I have plenty of younger women marrying older men for practical reasons but I can't think to explain this one!
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 26 December 09 13:38 GMT (UK)
My grandparents were 68+ and 35 on his second and her first marriage in 1894. Fortunately for me.
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: cathyaus on Sunday 27 December 09 03:26 GMT (UK)
While searching the 1911 Census for my husband's grandmother, I found her as an 18 year single domestic servant. She is living in the household of a  Publican who is 61 years old & his newly married (under 1 year) wife who is 24 years old   :D

Cathy
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 27 December 09 03:34 GMT (UK)
My ggg-grandfather Craddock married a third time in 1847. He was then aged 66 and his third wife was just 21 years of age!  :o  :o

They proceded to have three more children......he already had children by his two earlier wives.....and of course he passed away leaving her a young widow. 


Dee   :)
                       
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: patrexjax on Sunday 27 December 09 03:47 GMT (UK)
Hi all, My Father was 47 when he married my Mom-to-be who was age 20.  ;)   On the marriage license he listed his age as 35! Pat
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: perth tiger on Sunday 27 December 09 07:16 GMT (UK)
i have one that was 65 when he married his second wife who was 25. they had 3 children, the last when he was 76  :o :o
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: jc26red on Sunday 27 December 09 07:47 GMT (UK)
The oldest groom I have was OHs 3xggrandfather aged 57 when he married, for the first time in 1778! His bride was 26.   I have a copy the marriage settlement and her father insisted that his daughter was given and annual income from the estate in the event that her future husband died first! She lived till she was 92  ;D ;D ;D

It took them 9 years before they had an only child!
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: little meg on Sunday 27 December 09 08:03 GMT (UK)
My twin sister has a younger fella,    ;D ;D ;D ;D

Margaret
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 27 December 09 08:24 GMT (UK)
One of my grandfather's four brothers married for the first time at 60, when he died aged 67 his widow was pregnant with their fifth child.
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 29 December 09 16:50 GMT (UK)
Didn't waste any time did he :D
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 30 December 09 11:59 GMT (UK)
Pat, Well he would wouldn't he? My grandfather 68+ (see above) married my grandmother 35, on the certificate it says 55 and 35!
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: matt94 on Saturday 02 January 10 16:13 GMT (UK)
My gg gg g grandfather Richard Tranter was widowed in 1847 aged (about) 60. He then married the lodger Jane Bird - who was aged 25... in 1851, when he was 64.

Ok so within this theory his wife needed to be 39 to qualify... ahem... no.

Matt
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: marcie dean on Saturday 02 January 10 18:25 GMT (UK)
The oldest groom I have was OHs 3xggrandfather aged 57 when he married, for the first time in 1778! His bride was 26.   I have a copy the marriage settlement and her father insisted that his daughter was given and annual income from the estate in the event that her future husband died first! She lived till she was 92  ;D ;D ;D

It took them 9 years before they had an only child!

Maybe she kept saying no.
marcie
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 02 January 10 19:31 GMT (UK)
My grandfather and his brother produced 7 children between them after that age, and it was the brother's first marriage. All the children were born after their fathers were 65, the oldest my father when my grandfather was 71.
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: marcie dean on Saturday 02 January 10 20:10 GMT (UK)
My grandfather and his brother produced 7 children between them after that age, and it was the brother's first marriage. All the children were born after their fathers were 65, the oldest my father when my grandfather was 71.
See that is the only area where you can beat us hands down, I mean you can carry on producing even when we stop.  Men do not understand the menopause and arguments ensue, which i think is the greatest period in someones life when divorce is more common.  Men forget what it is like to have children running around your feet, and draining your pocket.  They then look to getting a younger womans attention without considering that her hormones are racing, whilst yours are settling and she will want her own family and there we start again.  A new family.
marjorie ;D ;)
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 03 January 10 09:15 GMT (UK)
Only partially applies Marcie, in my grandfather's case he had no previous children, in his brother's he was previously unmarried. No second families here, good thing for me though!Now have a grand daughter "running around our feet" and pleased to have her too!
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Kevinshouse on Sunday 03 January 10 11:13 GMT (UK)
It always seems to be the men who are with younger wives.  I have a ggg uncle Henry who married a woman called Abigail Evilina Cooper,( it seems they both worked at the local stately home) aged 39 when he was only 20 years old, she died 6 years later aged 45 years. He then - married a widow  called Mary Ann Fox who had children from her previous marriage, they had son together called William Henry, she died a few years later - he then married a woman of a similar age to himself called Emily Farnsworth  and they had 3 children together.
Kind regards Susan
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: danuslave on Sunday 03 January 10 11:48 GMT (UK)
Quote

It always seems to be the men who are with younger wives.


It has always been more socially acceptable, even now!  Older men with much younger wives/partners are considered rakish and somehow special.  Women with much younger partners are seen as rather sad cradlesnatchers.

Fortunately there are some exceptions.  I have friends who are 64 (her) and 44 (him) who have been together for over 20 years and are devoted to each other.  And the delectable Michael Ball seems to favour older women  :)

Linda
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 03 January 10 18:32 GMT (UK)
And the delectable Michael Ball seems to favour older women  :)

I wouldn't get your hopes up there  ;)
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: danuslave on Sunday 03 January 10 18:43 GMT (UK)
OK - I know he's spoken for  :'(
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Sloe Gin on Sunday 03 January 10 19:19 GMT (UK)
(http://bestsmileys.com/mouthzippedshut/3.gif)
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: dudleylad on Sunday 03 January 10 20:51 GMT (UK)
The biggest difference I have in my tree is my gg grandfathers second marriage, his wife was 23 years younger

On my partners tree her ggg grandfather was 16 years older than his wife (which was his second marriage after his first wife died)

Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Monday 04 January 10 11:52 GMT (UK)
"Toyboys" seem like the poor, to have always been with us!
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: toni* on Monday 04 January 10 12:04 GMT (UK)
my great aunt has been married 3 times (in fact both my great aunts have) i recently found out her husband is not yet 56 and she is 70, this came as a surprise to me as i thought he was around the same age maybe 2-4 years younger but not that much, however i shouldnt really be surprised as my Grandad was 12 years older than my Nan and my father 12 years older than my mother
maybe though it wouldnt be acceptable nowdays that ages when they first 'got together'
also my great grandad was 17 years older than my great gran.



Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 04 January 10 17:38 GMT (UK)
My g.grandparents don't appear to have married, but must have been together from 1883, my gran being born in April 1884 8) 

If they had married in 1883, my g.gran would have been 40 and my g.grandfather about 25.  That is outside toni's formula, to fit the formula he should have been at least 27. Mind you according to the 1891 census, g.gran was only 42 ageing only 2 years in 8!! (I have her birth certificate to prove that wrong).

Lizzie
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 05 January 10 10:20 GMT (UK)
its Nudges formula not mine but my great grandparents were also outside the formula with him being born in 1850 and her in 1867 and they marrying in 1892 she should have been at least 28 she was 25

Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: LizzieW on Tuesday 05 January 10 12:25 GMT (UK)
Quote
its Nudges formula not mine

Apologies to you and Nudge.

Lizzie
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 05 January 10 20:29 GMT (UK)
In my tree, age disparities seem to be the norm rather than the exception.
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: nudge67 on Thursday 07 January 10 22:47 GMT (UK)
Well, not my formula either, but that of the researchers. It was based on extensive surveys in several western countries on the question of acceptable age difference. Remarkably, there was little national or regional variation, the formula held true averywhere.
Title: Re: Cradlesnatching
Post by: Redroger on Friday 08 January 10 12:24 GMT (UK)
On a slightly different though related tack concerning the Northern Ireland first minister whose wife also an MP aged 60 has had an affair with a 20 year old toy boy. If they married what would the ratio be?