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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: joshii5 on Friday 25 December 09 22:16 GMT (UK)
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My great great grandfather Thomas Sweet was born in 1844 in Rugeley to James Sweet and Jane Toy.
Jane supposedly died in 1847, and her second child (Mary) was born a year earlier, but probably died, as Thomas then went to live with Jane's brother John Toy and his family (who ran the Swan Inn - now Swan Hotel - in Lower Street, Tettenhall) and Mary is nowhere to be seen on their census entry. Around this time it is believed Thomas took on the name "James" because there was another Thomas in the house.
James Sweet was listed as a Foundry Smith in 1844 on Thomas' birth certificate, and a Fitter in 1871 when Thomas married Mary Ann Arkinstall in Wolverhampton. Nothing more is known about him except that he was probably born around 1820 and his parents might have been a John and Elizabeth Sweet from Rugeley (IGI entry).
I would really like to know more about the TOY family, about John and Jane, their parents, any siblings they might have had, and more about this enterprise John had as a "Master Victualler". Any info about the Sweets from James upwards would also be really appreciated!
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My great great grandfather Thomas Sweet was born in 1844 in Rugeley to James Sweet and Jane Toy.
Jane supposedly died in 1847, and her second child (Mary) was born a year earlier, but probably died, as Thomas then went to live with Jane's brother John Toy and his family (who ran the Swan Inn - now Swan Hotel - in Lower Street, Tettenhall) and Mary is nowhere to be seen on their census entry. Around this time it is believed Thomas took on the name "James" because there was another Thomas in the house.
James Sweet was listed as a Foundry Smith in 1844 on Thomas' birth certificate, and a Fitter in 1871 when Thomas married Mary Ann Arkinstall in Wolverhampton. Nothing more is known about him except that he was probably born around 1820 and his parents might have been a John and Elizabeth Sweet from Rugeley (IGI entry).
I would really like to know more about the TOY family, about John and Jane, their parents, any siblings they might have had, and more about this enterprise John had as a "Master Victualler". Any info about the Sweets from James upwards would also be really appreciated!
I can't quite understand the reasoning for Thomas Sweet taking the name of James as there was another thomas in the house???
1861 shows James Sweet age 16 nephew - but there is a james Toy age 12 and a Thomas Toy age 22
also John Toy is just described as a publican?? Not "master"?
Suz
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Those were the thoughts of a distant cousin on this website where the family tree has been published. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~burfordwoodley/5556.htm, and in a lot more detail.
(I didn't know of this relative until 2006 so this took me by surprise!!). Either that's it or it's a mistake, but I think the James is definitely the same person. We both drew a blank trying to find out more about James, John and Jane though.
Further censuses, such as 1851, show John Toy as Master Victualler, and something on the internet called "The jurist" (http://www.archive.org/stream/jurist22britgoog/jurist22britgoog_djvu.txt) lists a "John Toy, innkeeper, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire". I don't really understand the document though or know from when it dates, has he filed for bankruptcy?
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I have found John Toy on census
1841-Publican
1851-Victualler -master
1861-publican
1871-retired licensed victualler
John dies late 1871
I can give you full census if you require them
it seems John was possibly the son of Thomas and Jane Toy=but can only find christenings of John, thomas, William, Margaret and Sophia to this couple -that doesn't mean there wasn't a Jane
this looks a possibility for the family
1841
Bond St
Wolverhampton
Jane Toy 60 Matron to ladies charity
Thos 20 sheet lock M
Ellen 14
Mary 11
James Haines 20 pavoir
John Jones 20 Groom
all b in county
HO107 1000 33 18
I also found in 1841 Jane Toy who was a keeper in a Lunatic Asylum -I wondered if this may be your Jane ??
Marriage reg FreeBMD
Dec qtr 1842
Stafford
On same page
James Sweet
Jane Toy
17 165
If you purchase this marriage cert you would get the names and occupations of James and janes fathers
1851 Thomas Sweet age 6 is with his uncle (John Toy)
1861 he is named as James Sweet- possibly the enumerater made a mistake in the entry -as I think (only my opinion though)it is the only census where he is names James
Suz
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Thanks for the reply, I will definitely follow up on that lead. Maybe John could have been a half-brother, and that's why no christening for Jane appears for that couple in particular (that has been proven to be the case with other relatives of mine).
While searching on the internet I came across a Foster Morris Toy, baptised in 1777 in St Peters, Wolverhampton... the same church that Thomas Sweet would marry Mary Arkinstall in... I wonder if this is a relation to John Toy Sr.
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I received James and Jane's marriage certificate today.
October 31st 1842, St. Chad's Church, Stafford
James Sweet - of suitable age (?) - smith - of Rugeley - father John Sweet, hosier
Jane Toy - of suitable age - spinster - of Stafford - father Thomas Toy, whitesmith
witnesses - Elizabeth Trickett, James Corner
So it looks like this document confirms what we already know. I think Jane might have been older than her siblings, but annoyingly their ages aren't shown on the marriage certificate. Can anyone find out anything more from this information. Think hosiery must have been a slightly more middle class occupation than striking iron so I'm intrigued...
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I think I have found out more information on James' parents.
According to findmypast.co.uk. They appear to have been a John (1759-1837) and Elizabeth Sweet (1793-1836) and are both buried in St. Augustine's Church, Rugeley, regretfully only a short expanse of time before all movements had to be registered by law (1st July 1837).
I'm taking a leap of faith assuming that this Elizabeth 'is' John's wife and the same Elizabeth seen on James' parish birth record from 1820.
This church was non-existant before 1822 hence why a marriage or individual births for the couple can not be found here. I suppose a trip to Rugeley to see the gravestone (if any) would answer a lot of questions.
Does anyone have any light they can shed upon this elusive pair?
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I'm going to the Archives on Wednesday, I'll see if the burials are there at St Augustine's.
BumbleB
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Thanks, if you find out anything about their prior movements such as marriage etc that would be great.
I found out some info about Jane's (or at least John's) parents.
Thomas Toy died in 1831, birth year estimated at 1780 (parish records), and is buried in St. Peter's, Wolverhampton.
Jane Toy died in 1847, birth year estimated at 1781 (according to 1841 census)
Jane Toy Jr. died in 1847 as well.
The marriage of Thomas Toy and Jane Evers in St. Peters in 1804 is a possibility for the couple, but I can't find any children between 1804 and 1815 (John's birth) which would make it more likely.
Jane Toy Jr may have been born in 1816, to tally with her 1841 census entry. Cryptic then, why she doesn't appear with brothers John (born 1815), Thomas (born 1819) and William (born 1822) in parish records. However, John 'is' her brother, that is certain, as he raised her infant son after she died and is listed as 'uncle' on census.
Can't find a death for James Sweet anywhere?
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Not sure that I can do anything on Wolverhampton - I have a feeling that the records are not at Lichfield. But Rugeley is definitely there. See what I can do.
BumbleB
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Aha, found more Thomas/Jane births, dating back to their marriage.
Mary Ann (1805)
Elizabeth (1807)
Sophia (1813)
John (1815)
Margaret (1817)
Thomas (1819)
William (1822)
- yet no Jane to be found.
Also discovered a 'Jane Evars' born in January 1778 in Claverley, Shropshire, very near Wolverhampton, parents named William and Margaret Evars.
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Thomas Toy and Jane Evers were married at St Peter (Collegiate) on 7 July 1804 by Licence. Witnesses: Mary Dunn and Joseph Wainwright.
The licence exists - Thomas Toy of Wolverhampton Steel Toymaker, and Joseph Wainwright of Wolverhampton, Victualler were the Bondsmen. No further information.
I checked Mary Ann's baptism - 10 July 1805 daughter of Thomas and Jane and Elizabeth on 22 January 1807 daughter of Thomas and Jane.
As I was now not sure whether this was your family, I did not check out the rest of the baptisms, but will do so if you want me to. Nor did I check the burial of Thomas.
I did check the Rugeley burials, but not much information:
Elizabeth Sweet of Rugeley buried 22 January 1836 aged 43.
John Sweet of Rugeley buried 7 February 1837 ated 78.
BumbleB
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This church was non-existant before 1822 hence why a marriage or individual births for the couple can not be found here. I suppose a trip to Rugeley to see the gravestone (if any) would answer a lot of questions.
Does anyone have any light they can shed upon this elusive pair?
St. Augustine's Church replaced a small chapel (now ruined) on the opposite side of the road. This link tells you a little about it
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Rugeley/index.html#ChurchHistory
Cathy
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Hi
My great aunt, Lydia Jane Hammond b 1877 married John William Toy b 1869, John Toy b 1815 and Sarah Massey were his grandparents I am sorry this may not help with your research but it as certainly helped with mine and I would like to say thank you.
All the very best Margp
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Hi Joshii5
I have just found some research sent to me a few years ago on the Toy Family Tree, I think that you may find it useful, if you send a PM with your details I will send it to you
All the best Margp
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This is very helpful as John Toy and Sarah Massey were the foster parents of Thomas Sweet, my great-great grandfather. I have sent you a private message. :)