RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Friday 18 December 09 05:29 GMT (UK)
-
Moogaloo's thread is still running hot, so here's Part 2 so you can carry on.
Here's the link to Part 1.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,424952.0.html
Barbara
-
Wow!! Can't believe this is still going strong. One thing that hadn't occurred to me till just now is could Emily have been in the workhouse at any point? Never thought of looking in an institution for her. Any thoughts on this? x x
-
Quote from Toni.
Emily Wheeler 14 dec 1873 d/o Edward & carline
Romsey hants
Emily Kate Wheeler 5th oct 1880 d/o edward & emily shnklin methodist circuit
The Emily Wheeler 14 Dec 1873 would seem to fit the Emily on the marriage certificate perfectly. They married 27 Sep 1914 so her 39th birthday would have been after they married.
Added(sorry) that would make her 41 wouldn't it? Forget what I already said lol. It is early in the morning so my head's still not up yet lol. x x
-
she would pop up in general searches if she was in an institution
i think you should follow Emily Kate Brewer / Wheeler / Young
no school today - try to get to work hmmmm only travel if necesary well it is necessary to go to work or you dont get paid and then dont have any money to live - wish i had some of thoe metal studded tyres !
-
Quote from: Lesanne on Wednesday 16 December 09 23:28 UTC (UK)
Huh
Have we got the Charles 27 ? and Emily 25? Young in Hampshire, Portshead. 1901.
Dairy Farmer/Milkman born Lymington... It's very small writing.
Other family there as well.
I think Romsey is Emily (the wife) b/p
Quote from: Lesanne on Wednesday 16 December 09 23:41 UTC (UK)
Tongue
and.. there is a Wheeler family in Romsey... Edward and Caroline.
Other children. 1901 Romsey Intra, St Mary's.
Cry Emily Kate BREWER married a Charles Young in Romsey Dec 1897
Quote from: toni* on Yesterday at 22:27:04
from IGI
Emily Wheeler 14 dec 1873 d/o Edward & carline
Romsey hants
Emily Kate Wheeler 5th oct 1880 d/o edward & emily shnklin methodist circuit
So there was an Emily Wheeler !!
-
she would pop up in general searches if she was in an institution
i think you should follow Emily Kate Brewer / Wheeler / Young
no school today - try to get to work hmmmm only travel if necesary well it is necessary to go to work or you dont get paid and then dont have any money to live - wish i had some of thoe metal studded tyres !
Yeah it's like that here too toni. Thing is, I'm retired so I don't have to go out unless I want to. Being a wrinkly does have its advantages. lol. x x
ps. thanks toni for all your hard work on this. Hope you have a good day chuck. x
-
1881 Census -Found an Emily Wheeler age 9 - an Orphan :'(
Sir Josia Maso's Orphanage, Erdington, Worcester.
Could this be her and her father a wishful figure?
-
;D ;D ;D ;D
I can tell you the Wheelers in the Birmingham area can be trouble as well.
My friend had one whos birth had ben missed off the transcription on the BMD registers and only through the kindness of the RO did she find it.
-
Going back to what Moog said in the previous thread that Sidney and Dorothy were the youngest children. We know of 2 more born after 1901 but therefore some of the others must have been born before 1901.
So we have various possible birth places for Emily should we perhaps look for any Emily on 1901 with young children who matches with the various births we have found and see if we can follow them through to 1911 to eliminate them.
I'm off to the shops as we don't have much snow but back later.
-
Going back to what Moog said in the previous thread that Sidney and Dorothy were the youngest children. We know of 2 more born after 1901 but therefore some of the others must have been born before 1901.
So we have various possible birth places for Emily should we perhaps look for any Emily on 1901 with young children who matches with the various births we have found and see if we can follow them through to 1911 to eliminate them.
I'm off to the shops as we don't have much snow but back later.
Hi Jaywit. I can only summise that there were none born between when my Aunt Joanna was born to when my father and Dorothy were born. I would assume that had there been others after Joanna and Ellen and before my father that they would also have been with Charles when he came to Salford, Lancashire in the 1920s. I think my father was about 14 or 15yrs by the time Charles brought them to Salford. Don't know if any of this helps, but I just thought it might help to avoid pointless searches after 1901. x x
-
Is there a possibility do you think, that my father, Joanna and Ellen lived with Charles all along and not with Emily? x x
-
1881 Census -Found an Emily Wheeler age 9 - an Orphan :'(
Sir Josia Maso's Orphanage, Erdington, Worcester.
Could this be her and her father a wishful figure?
Hi. I'm not sure if Edward Wheeler was a fanciful figure. It is possible I guess, but from what I can guess, my father must have known about his grandfather at some point as my youngest brother is named Edward. I know this could also just be coincidence, but it's highly likely my brother Edward was named after his grandfather. Having said this, my other siblings are Charles, Bernard and Sylvia. As we know my father is the only boy of the family this rules out any other siblings being named Bernard or Charles, but is it a possibility one could be named Sylvia. My aunt Joanna also wanted to name my half sister's daughter Winifred, so perhaps this could also be a pointer although my half sister hated the name and named her daughter Donna, but my half sister is not blood related to my father.. So perhaps, if my assumption is correct, the three names that spring to mind are Sylvia, Mary, and Winifred. x x
-
Whoops - I should have put
Sir Josiah Maso's Orphanage , Erdington, WARWICKSHIRE :)
-
Anything's a possibility!
The main problem with that or with things in general, (or one of the main problems!) is that we haven't found hide nor hair of the family in 1911.
I've looked at every Sidney/Sydney born in 1909 and none leaps out at me. Ditto no Joan/joannas. As for the parents, Charles and Emily are quite common names and without having a year or certain place of birth, it's like the proverbial needle and haystack puzzle. Nonetheless, it should have been possible to track down the parents if the children were with them - but as I said, there's no sign that I can see of the children. And if they were in a workhouse or hospitalised, they would still show in the census returns. (I did get quite excited over a Charles Young in the workhouse in 1911 but turns out he was born in manchester and there was no sign of any other family member).
As far as 1911 goes, 4 possibilities strike me, or combinations of some of them:
1. The family wasn't in the country
2. The family used an assumed name
3. The family didn't fill in the census or the relevant census sheet is missing/lost/damaged
4. The family was fragmented and would need to be searched for individually - but we've done that and still not found the children.
I did wonder if the children had been fostered out, if Charles wasn't around and Emily was having to cope on her own, but as I say -- no Sidney anywhere ----- I know that fostered out children were sometimes given different names so that's a possibility but hardly helpful.
And without knowing any more about origins etc, we can't confidently say which of the variety of Emilys and Charles on offer pre-1911 are yours, though I'm still drawn to the Charles Young living in Islington, Liverpool, in 1891.
I feel as though I've hit your brick wall, I'm sorry to say, moogaloo. I'll keep an eye on the thread and if I can think of anything else sensible to add, I'll do so.
:-\
-
Emily on 1901 with young children .
thats what i said earlier! :)
she should have at least 4 children
mind you if she was lying about her age then it is possible she did have children after 1911
are there other marriages that could tie up with the wheeler/young births?
-
Have to aagree with you Annie. But I'd still like to thank you and everyone who's done so much searching, even if we haven't come up with anything positive. You have all been absolute gems. Bless you all. x x
-
There is just one other possibility!! Could Joanna, Ellen and my father have lived with one or other of their grandparents? x x
-
I don't know about Emily in 1911 but I think it's more than likely Charles was out of the country if he was serving his time with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.
The reason for his discharge in 1914 not only has the reference to the standard conditions that have been quoted but the officer concerned explicitly wrote thathe was unlikely to become an efficient reservist. He was only trying to sign up for one year when war had broken out, was physically fit and yet they rejected him. What on earth did they know about him that we dont? :o
Did we determine whether the National Archives held the pre-war service records for the RWF? If so, it might be worth asking them to look for him provided we can give the right catalogue reference. On a recent email to me they affirmed they were happy to do up to 20 minutes of searching for free ;D
-
i still think also the school reocrds will help
School Records / School Log Books
1870-Current Day (although 100 year rule applies) School registers provide pupils names, date of birth, addresses, fathers names and fathers occupation and years of attendance if they left to go to another school this would also be noted. Some have a brief explanation about the family.
School Log Books were filled in weekly by the head teacher give attendance figures and note extraordinary events.
From 1862 statutory admission and discharge registers began to be kept by the head teachers of schools receiving government funding, you will discover that many of these commence only in 1880 when schooling became compulsory betwixt the ages of 5 and ten, though local districts could make it from 1870.
School attendance registers were compiled by local education authorities after 1875 these disclose similar information as well as the placement of youngsters in schools throughout the county.
The particulars registered concerning the deaths and births of children submitted to the local education authority (LEA) by the district registrars record the date and place of each event the child’s name, sex his or her fathers name and the description and abode of the informant
-
you could also try the smallpox vaccination records they should be at your local RO
they date from 1853-1948 parents were put on 3 months notice by the district registrar to take their baby for vaccination by the public vacinator or by the GP depending on where they lived, a vaccination certifcate was then issued - the registers are arranged by English & Wales sub district and record:
the date and place of birth
the childs name and sex
the fathers name - or if illigitimate that of the mother & their occupation
and the date when the district registrar notified the birth to the vaccinating officer
also they show the dated of the vaccination and whether it was successful or whether the childhad already had smallpox or had an unsuccessful attempt of vaccination or if the child had died already and the date of death of that child
-
Toni.......how could someone in Oz......(Me) access these records?? :)
-
contact the local record office to where the person who you are asking about lived for school or in the smallpox case was born and ask them if they hold the records :)
-
8)
-
contact the local record office to where the person who you atre asking about lived for school or in the smallpox case was born and ask them if they hold the records :)
Aha.......thanks :-*
-
8)
its cool here! about 0 degrees ;D
-
ps it really helps if you know the school or the closest one to where they lived, like i say the 100 year rule applies so even if your relative was at school in 1898 say but the register carried on until 1938 you wouldnt be able to view it until 2038 but some places are a bit more flexible and allow your information to be accessed but some stand byt he gard and fast rule ::) (bes to to be safe and secure though) - usually registers / log books dont take that long to fill up!
-
It's Ernest.......I would be taking a stab at where he went to school, so would have to approach quite a number of RO's ::) :D
-
i have had another thought re Emily ok what if she was previously married
we would need to look for a marriage for Emily .... to Mr Wheeler 1893-1904
although she lists her father as Edward Wheeler when she married Charles
so possibly we need to also look for a marriage for Emily Wheeler 1893-1904
this is going on the basis she was born in 1873-1876
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
mayeb there is an Ellen and JOanna registerd in that surname ?
-
It's Ernest.......I would be taking a stab at where he went to school, so would have to approach quite a number of RO's ::) :D
it was usual back then to send the child to the closest school to which they lived - do you now where he lived and what year are we talking ? he would have been at school aged 5 to 10
-
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
yes there are WAY too many
even if the certificates werwe rodered on the provo that fathers name was Edward ::)
although this one stands out!
Marriages Sep 1904 Brighton 2b 511
Calcott Maria Adelaide
Cornford William Henry
Hunter Maria Adelaide
Wheeler Emily
Wilkins Maurice
see Maria is listed twice under 2 different surnames
-
Emily Wheeler born Brighton, who may (or of course may not) be daughter of Edward the hawker, seems to have got lost in the changeover of threads :D Anyway if it is accepted that Emily may have lied about her age for some reason when marrying Charles in 1914 this is her birth
Emily Wheeler born Brighton Jan qtr 1884 Vol2b Pg257
Jan ;)
-
yes thats the one i was refering to Jan
:)
and to rule out the later wheeler / young Manchester births
Marriages Dec 1912
Wheeler Hannah & Edward Young Manchester 8d 350
-
ok to speculate greatly i wonder if Hannah was a daughter of Emily and married a relation of Charles - like i say speculationg greatly but if Hannah was 21 she would be old / young enoguh to be a daughter of Emily.
-
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
yes there are WAY too many
even if the certificates werwe rodered on the provo that fathers name was Edward ::)
although this one stands out!
Marriages Sep 1904 Brighton 2b 511
Calcott Maria Adelaide
Cornford William Henry
Hunter Maria Adelaide
Wheeler Emily
Wilkins Maurice
see Maria is listed twice under 2 different surnames
Missed this toni in the ecessively long time my reply took to post :( As good a reason as any to lie about her age!
Jan ;)
-
could Joanna and Ellen be a Brewer refering to the one Lesanne found in Romsey ?
Emily Kate Wheeler d/o Edward & Caroline
although it seems Caroline was nee Fileder
Marriages Jun 1873 Romsey 2c 124
Brown Henry Frank
Fielder Caroline
Ward Anne
WHEELER Edward
-
maybe i'm going off on a tangent
Births Sep 1903
Wilkins Joanna Bridgend 11a 945
Births Dec 1904
Wilkins Joan Boynton W. Ham 4a 385
Wilkins Joan Boyton W Ham 4a 385
-
just so you are all clear my tangent is
Emily Wheeler possibly d/o Edward marrying in Brighton to Maurice Wilkins or William HEnry Cornford
have they had a child JOan*
and also Emily Kate Wheeler married as Emily Kate Brewer to Charles Young in Romsey
she is the daughetr of Edward & Caroline nee Fielder.
although there are no JOan* Young births
-
There's a Joanna Young born in Scotland in 1904 (also one in 1903). Anyone got any Scotlandspeople credits to use up?
-
There's a Joanna Young born in Scotland in 1904 (also one in 1903). Anyone got any Scotlandspeople credits to use up?
great find
and back in part 1 i found a Chales Young with mother JOanna in Scotland too and father Richard
- wil look for it and post again
if they are in Scotland in 1911 they are not online yet (are they)
-
Emily Wheeler born Romsey Hants married Ernest Gale in 1895. They are together in 1901 and 1911 living in Romsey.
-
here is scotland ref from part 1
maybe nothing but found in 1901 (&1891) Charles Young b. crica 1881 Glasgow with father Richard and mother Johann
because of Mothers name thought i would post it
~~~~
do you have Dorothys death cert ?
what does it say ?
quote from part 1
Hi Toni. I believe there were 9 children in all, 8 after Dorothy died in 1909, but the only ones whose names I know are Joanna, Ellen and my father. Lol, there are so many Charles Youngs and Emily Wheelers arent' there? x x
~~~~
what did you think of the window for Richards death and the ones i found ? in part 1 ?
-
Emily Wheeler born Romsey Hants married Ernest Gale in 1895. They are together in 1901 and 1911 living in Romsey.
rules her out then
:)
-
I am thinking that if Emily did give birth to 9 children and we only know of 4 then the 1884 Brighton Emily was going to have to had started young and given birth in quick succesion. She would have only been 18ish when Ellen was born.
It is possible there were births and deaths between Ellen and Joanna and Joanna and Sidney but what did she register them under?
-
Johanna Young b 23 November 1909 - Stockport
Died December 1989 - Stockport
right area maybe according to what I have read (I think :D)
-
I think Mary has Joannas death which gives her birth as being Aug 1904 she may have her marriage as well, certianly it was JOannas husband that registered the detah of Joannas father Charles young
-
There's a Joanna Young born in Scotland in 1904 (also one in 1903). Anyone got any Scotlandspeople credits to use up?
1902 - Joanna Hunter Young (clackmannan, Alloa)
1903 - Joanna Young (Glasgow City, Bridgetown)
1904 - JOanna Catherine Young (Perth, Perth)
That's all the Joanna Young's between 1900 and 1910
-
Looks like the Emily Wheeler born Brighton probably married William Cornford - they are in Islington 1911 with children Daisy 6 and William 2.
Jan ;)
The Scottish Youngs do look hopeful
-
Emily born Shanklin is still single in 1901 she is a cook at a lodging house in Sandown owned by her cousin. No lodgers present so I guess it was more of a seaside B & B. I'll see if I can find her in 1911.
-
Wasn't Sidney born in 1909? In which case thta Joanna can't be right.
-
Emily Wheeler born Shanklin married Frank Downer in 1906, she is still on the Isle of Wight in 1911. I can't be sure she is with Frank, too many Emily Downers on the island.
-
Emily Wheeler born Shanklin married Frank Downer in 1906, she is still on the Isle of Wight in 1911. I can't be sure she is with Frank, too many Emily Downers on the island.
not many other people to marry! ;)
-
So I think we have pretty much covered all the Emilys born in England that might have matched, and still no further on.
-
[/quote ]
ok
re Emily here is my theory
i have looked in the UK census collection for Emily b. 1876 +/- 2 years fatehr Edward EXACT matches
which gives us 4 in 1881 and 3 in 1891
so perhaps we can follow these to see if we can rule them out / in
no. 1 Emily b. circa 1874 Romsey father Edward b.1853 do. a Coachman Mother Caroline
no.2 Emily A b. circa 1875 Sudbury fateher Edward b.1838 a Butcher and later a butcher and farmer Mother Mary A
no.3 Emily b. circa 1876 London father Edward b.1848 a carman mother Eliza
no. 4 Emily b. circa 1877 Lumley Durham father Edward b.1839 a coal miner mother Jane Ann
now no.1 2 & 4 Emily are with their parents in 1891 after that nah nah
so can we rule these out ?
did i leave enough +/- of 2 years as opposed to 3 or 5 ?
[/color]
carrying this over from part 1
we have rules out the Romsey one how about the others ?
-
Sudbury Emily married William Levick and they are together in 1901 and 1911 so she is out.
-
Lumley Emily married John Bilton in 1899 she is with him and son John in 1901. I can't see her at the moment in 1911.
-
Lumley Emily married John Bilton in 1899 she is with him and son John in 1901. I can't see her at the moment in 1911.
i was looking for her!
Mary thinks all the other children of Emily were girls
-
I still can't find any of the family in 1911 but I thought that about girls.
Just the London one to go, now where do we start with her? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
The London Emily is at home in 1891 her place of birth is given as St Anns West, now where is that in London?
Off for a bite to eat back in a while.
-
Mary said that Joanna visited her Wheeler relatives in London
Emily b. London
in 1881 RG11; 37; 86; 25
-
The London Emily is at home in 1891 her place of birth is given as St Anns West, now where is that in London?
Off for a bite to eat back in a while.
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/m-anns.htm
-
There are public trees on Ancestry for the Romsey Emily, the London Emily and the Lumley Emily.
The trail goes cold on the London one after 1891. Her father was a bricklayer in 1871 and then a carman in 1881 and 1891.
-
The London Emily is at home in 1891 her place of birth is given as St Anns West, now where is that in London?
Off for a bite to eat back in a while.
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/m-anns.htm
So it's basically Soho.
-
There is an Emily born Bethnal Green c1881 who marries Thomas Clare, they are on 1901 with 4 children, 2 boys 2 girls.
-
There is an Emily born Bethnal Green c1881 who marries Thomas Clare, they are on 1901 with 4 children, 2 boys 2 girls.
hmmmmm do they appear in 1911 ?
i saw a couple of marraiges for Emily Wheeler in Paddiongton seeing as that was where we last found her *(1891)
but there are just to many in London generally to pick from
-
Hi Mary,
I was just looking at this old post on UKGEN http://www.ukgen.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8797
which mentions that:
a) Joanna was known as Joan
b) Ellen could have been a Helen
c) Emily was thought to be born in Lydiard Millicent, Wilts around 1866/7
On (c) - is that still worth pursuing ?
-
There is an Emily born Bethnal Green c1881 who marries Thomas Clare, they are on 1901 with 4 children, 2 boys 2 girls.
hmmmmm do they appear in 1911 ?
i saw a couple of marraiges for Emily Wheeler in Paddiongton seeing as that was where we last found her *(1891)
but there are just to many in London generally to pick from
I've had a quick look and can't see her in 1911, I've got to go out back later.
-
Doing some more digging on other websites.
According to this one Charles, Joan, Ellen and Sidney moved to Manchester leaving Emily behind in Somerset with other children possibly Winifred and Margaret
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
-
c) Emily was thought to be born in Lydiard Millicent, Wilts around 1866/7
Thats a little early - from her marriage 1876ish
where does the Lydiard Millicent come into it ?
-
Doing some more digging on other websites.
According to this one Charles, Joan, Ellen and Sidney moved to Manchester leaving Emily behind in Somerset with other children possibly Winifred and Margaret
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
from the marriage cert he gave his father as Richard
-
Home in 1880: Mendon, Clayton, Iowa
John Young 40 b Grt Britain (All down as wandering Gypsies)
James Leed 35 b Grt Britain
Jimy Young 50 b Grt Britain
William Lee 25
Christ Young 24
Elia Young 23
Jo Young 22
Wm. Warden 18
Oliver Young 17
Dan Young 16
Libby Warden 20
Anna Young 15
Louisa Young 14
Jane Lee 30
Omia Lee 5
Jullia Lee 4
Abey Lee 3
Lidia Young 2
Linra Young 10
Buttler Young 6
Lorina Young 8
Setha Young 1
Esau Young 7
Sweety Young 8
Pinkey Young 4
Dantia Lee 40
Ema Young 30
Dina Young 24
Carol Young 4
-
has anyone looked at the British Overseas BMD ?
also if he was it he army when his child was born
http://www.archhistory.co.uk/taca/famousarch.html
-
Doing some more digging on other websites.
According to this one Charles, Joan, Ellen and Sidney moved to Manchester leaving Emily behind in Somerset with other children possibly Winifred and Margaret
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
Is this Mary's original posting...
-
I'm back, we are still going round in circles? ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
If we are looking for an Emily bord Lydiard Millicent then that came under Cricklade district.
-
No Emily Wheelers. Loads of Emily something else and just these female Wheelers.
Kate Ethel Wheeler 1876 Jan-Feb-Mar
Sarah Gertrude M Wheeler 1882 Oct-Nov-Dec
Alice Kate Wheeler 1878
-
1891 Has an Emily S Wheeler age 14 born Salisbury Wiltshire as a visitor in the household of a Cooper family all born Romsey Hants. They are living in Blandford Forum.
RG12/1634/71/27
-
Still going round in circles. ;D ;D I have been looking on 1881 for a Charles living in the Islington area of Liverpool. I can find one with father Richard, his surname is Oliver but he is around in 1901 and 1911.
I'll have another look later
-
1881 - this is the Charles Young who was from Islington, Liverpool, with the rest of his family :)
RG11; Piece: 3699; Folio: 93; Page: 32
-
This is him as a newborn is 1871
RG10; Piece: 3792; Folio: 49; Page: 27
with his father George and mother Margaret, living at Queen Ann St, Islington, Liverpool.
and here they are in 1891, back in Islington, Liverpool
RG12; Piece: 2918; Folio 5; Page 4
Both parents, Charles age 20, George W (17), Dwight (15), Mary J (12), Margaret (7), Phyllis (3).
Each time the censuses agree that all children were born in Liverpool. Charles's father George is a gas fitter/plumber, and he and Margaret were both born around 1848.
-
In 1901, Dwight was married (Annie) and shared his house with his brother George and sisters Mary, Margaret and Phyllis in Everton
I'm going to have a look for the sisters on 1911 but of course they may well have married by then, Back shortly!
-
no Phyllis Young anywhere in Lancs in 1911.
The only Margaret Youngs I can see in the Liverpool area are married or widowed, ie would have had a different maiden name.
and there are no obvious candidates for Mary.
-
Annie We did something about that family in the first part I can remember the name Dwight.
-
Have we had this?
Dwight, George and Charles travelled to New York from Liverpool on the Germanic on 24 oct 1894. They were all listed as single; Dwight as an engineer, Charles as a plumber and George as a painter.
Obviously Dwight came back - where would we find out about the other 2?
-
I know, it was on page 1 of the first thread when I found the 1871 census with Islington mentioned - because of that I've always thought this Chalres has to be high on the list of suspects.
-
Quote from: ShaunJ on Today at 13:40:30
Doing some more digging on other websites.
According to this one Charles, Joan, Ellen and Sidney moved to Manchester leaving Emily behind in Somerset with other children possibly Winifred and Margaret
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
Is this Mary's original posting...
I think it may be her brother Charles who posted that
-
i have had another thought re Emily ok what if she was previously married
we would need to look for a marriage for Emily .... to Mr Wheeler 1893-1904
although she lists her father as Edward Wheeler when she married Charles
so possibly we need to also look for a marriage for Emily Wheeler 1893-1904
this is going on the basis she was born in 1873-1876
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
mayeb there is an Ellen and JOanna registerd in that surname ?
Hi Toni. It does say on their marriage cert that Emily is a spinster and Charles a bachelor. x x
-
Back to the Islington Youngs - one of the sisters was Margaret and we know that the brothers all went to USA at least for a while.
on 1911 there is a Margaret Young, widow, b Liverpool age 29 (so right age for this Margaret) lodging with a Makin family in Kirkdale, Liverpool. She has 2 young Youngs (ha!) with her - Margaret, age 5 and Mabel age 1, both "american residents".
relevant to this family?
-
Quote from: ShaunJ on Today at 13:40:30
Doing some more digging on other websites.
According to this one Charles, Joan, Ellen and Sidney moved to Manchester leaving Emily behind in Somerset with other children possibly Winifred and Margaret
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
Is this Mary's original posting...
I think it may be her brother Charles who posted that
Hi Shaun. I don't know where they came from when they came to Salford, Lancs in the 1920s, only that Joanna, Sidney and Ellen came with Charles. Where Emily was, or went, I have no idea. It would seem to make more sense that they came to Salford from Liverpool as it is still in the north of England. Whether Emily went South or not I don't know. x x
-
Back to the Islington Youngs - one of the sisters was Margaret and we know that the brothers all went to USA at least for a while.
on 1911 there is a Margaret Young, widow, b Liverpool age 29 (so right age for this Margaret) lodging with a Makin family in Kirkdale, Liverpool. She has 2 young Youngs (ha!) with her - Margaret, age 5 and Mabel age 1, both "american residents".
relevant to this family?
We need someone with access to the 1900 USA census to see if any of them show up.
-
Back to the Islington Youngs - one of the sisters was Margaret and we know that the brothers all went to USA at least for a while.
on 1911 there is a Margaret Young, widow, b Liverpool age 29 (so right age for this Margaret) lodging with a Makin family in Kirkdale, Liverpool. She has 2 young Youngs (ha!) with her - Margaret, age 5 and Mabel age 1, both "american residents".
relevant to this family?
Hi Annie. My father (Sidney) was the only boy of the family, so I'm not sure this applies chuck. x x
-
Still with the Islington Youngs. I think the rest of the family sailed on the Etruria on 29.9.94
Geo Young, adult, and Margt Young, adult, together with Mary J 15, Maggie 11 and Louis 7 (Phyllis was bapt Phyllis Louisa).
-
Moogaloo, I know you said that your dad was the only boy, but this Islington family might be his father's family - so uncles and aunts for your dad, not sisters and brothers.
Anyone got any access to any USA record sites?
-
OMGosh... I was looking at the Oliver surname and there's loads since then........ ;D
Anyway an Emily Wheeler as neice is with Harry Selway(aged27 b Bristol) family. in 1891 Bradford Lancashire
I'll have to go back and get that info =Emily Wheeler born in Bath Somerset c1877
Looking for Harry Selway..
Births Sep 1891
SELWAY Harry Oliver Dursley 6a 231
-
Sorry Annie. Just realised you were talking about Charles Young's brothers and sisters and not my father's. x x
-
Moogaloo, I know you said that your dad was the only boy, but this Islington family might be his father's family - so uncles and aunts for your dad, not sisters and brothers.
Anyone got any access to any USA record sites?
Just realised you meant Charles Young's family and not Sidney's. Sorry Annie. x x
-
i have had another thought re Emily ok what if she was previously married
we would need to look for a marriage for Emily .... to Mr Wheeler 1893-1904
although she lists her father as Edward Wheeler when she married Charles
so possibly we need to also look for a marriage for Emily Wheeler 1893-1904
this is going on the basis she was born in 1873-1876
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
mayeb there is an Ellen and JOanna registerd in that surname ?
Hi Toni. It does say on their marriage cert that Emily is a spinster and Charles a bachelor. x x
yes i know but obviously thats what she told them,
why didnt they marry earlier ? only can think either the army wouldnt give permission or financial restraints other than that they didnt marry because someone didnt approve or they were already married.
-
Anyone got any access to any USA record sites?
only the ones on ancestry - i used to have access to familyrelatives but not anymore
-
I don't have the full ancestry membership so I can't access the details, but there are 2 listings for Charles Young leaving New York and arriving in Liverpool. Can anyone take a look?
-
And one for Emily Young dep NY and arriving Liverpool. But I can't look at dates so can't get this any further.
-
Hi Annie what bc is George and Margaret for census 1910usa?
-
And one for Sidney Young, and one for "Jonanna" Young!! How frustrating is that? It will probably all be a shoal of red herrings but can anyone put me out of my misery?!
-
sorry, Lesanne - what do you mean by bc?
-
;) born circa.. also the Emily.. Lots of George Young without any Margaret's... :-\ in 1910
-
I can't access the full records either.
-
I'm looking at 1910 USA census ;)
Who do we want... with birth circa and name, poss parent or partner.
I'll have a look.
-
George Young b Liverpool ca 1848, plmber/gas fitter/labourer
Margaret Young, same age, b Liverpool or Preston
the children, all b Liverpool, all dates circa:
Charles 1872
George 1874
Dwight 1876
Mary Jane 1879(?)
Phyllis Louisa 1885
Emily, Ellen, Joan, Sidney Young with Charles?
-
I'm looking at 1910 USA census ;)
Who do we want... with birth circa and name, poss parent or partner.
I'll have a look.
Lesanne I think 1900 would be more useful if you can access it.
-
i have had another thought re Emily ok what if she was previously married
we would need to look for a marriage for Emily .... to Mr Wheeler 1893-1904
although she lists her father as Edward Wheeler when she married Charles
so possibly we need to also look for a marriage for Emily Wheeler 1893-1904
this is going on the basis she was born in 1873-1876
how many are there? are there too many to rule out ?
mayeb there is an Ellen and JOanna registerd in that surname ?
Hi Toni. It does say on their marriage cert that Emily is a spinster and Charles a bachelor. x x
yes i know but obviously thats what she told them,
why didnt they marry earlier ? only can think either the army wouldnt give permission or financial restraints other than that they didnt marry because someone didnt approve or they were already married.
Have to admit you got me on that one toni. lol Perhaps Charles was a bigamist and that's why the army wouldn't accept him x x
-
But I think it might be worth checking the 1910 for Charles, Emily and the children, since they're nowhere to be found on the E/W census in 1911.
I've got to go out! But I'll be back!
-
I would have thought that if Joanna came back from the USA say 1912ish she would have been old enough to remember and probably talk about it in later life. Moog have you contacted the Lawless family? They might just have memories of being told about the USA if this had happened.
-
found a 4 month old Charles Young sailing from Liverppol to Quebec via Londonderry in 1873 aboard the Samaritan they arrived 14th oct 1873 but i cant read his family names ::) maybe Les can have a shot one of those is called Josephine
also 22 may 1898 a 22 year old Charles Young sailed to New York New York from Liverpool aboard the Umbria - but wouldnt he have been in the army at this point ?
-
'George' 'Margaret' 1910 in Hamiltom Mercer N.J. 1893 Immigration
George w Young 44 England
Margaret 37 (?born in New Jersey)
Ernest G 12
Margaret A 9
Look at Charles and Emily now
-
also 22 may 1898 a 22 year old Charles Young sailed to New York New York from Liverpool aboard the Umbria - but wouldnt he have been in the army at this point ?
We just don't know.
I've found a Charles Young who served in the Boer War, but not ours, pity.
-
igi have a africa section
-
We don't know that Charles Young father of Sidney served in the Boer War.
We know that Sidney's parents were registered in 1909 as Charles Young, and Emily, nee Wheeler.
We know that there was a Charles Young who married an Emily Wheeler in Liverpool 5 years after Sidney's birth in Bath, and that he was a West Lancs reservist who appears to have had a previous engagement in the army before signing up for the Special Reserve in August 1914. We don't know for sure that this is the same couple as Sidney's parents. Charles's age is wrong when compared with his death registration; the civilian occupation (general labourer) is wrong when compared to children's birth certificates; none of the children are mentioned in the army papers that we can find
-
Shaun I think somewhere it says that Charles occupation on the marriage and Sidney and Dorothy's birth certificates is the same - slater.
I think that is buried somewhere on the first thread, and although I think it says labourer on the WW1 service record the address he gave was the same as the marriage certificate.
-
The marriage cert has him as Private Charles Young of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers, occupation slater
You are right Jaywit. That would appear to clinch it! I will get back in my box now.
-
1910 Charles & closest to = Emma Immigration 1877
Charles 39 Eng
Emma 32 Pennsylvania parents from Eng
Alfred H 9 NY
Helen E 6 Ohio
May iris? 4 Ohio
Willard d 1 & 8/12 ohio
Baby daughter 3/12 ohio
-
I've run out of ideas again.
There is still the Emily born St Annes London we haven't tied down properly and there is that suggestion of a London association for the Wheelers, but born London a pain.....
Well that's it for tonight for me, see you.
-
Page 9 on part 1 I said Dwight Wheeler 37m listed to sail from Havana to New York but did not board - he was an engineer so probably working and
Emily Wheeler sailed from Bermuda to New York with son Wilfred but she was a US citizen. So maybe no need to look at those.
-
:o Mine eyeballs..... tried all whichways in 1900.
Interesting possibles... are we sure the peeps we are looking for:-
were born in England, White or Black as well...
Mary E Orr ::) b N.Y. May 1889 boarder. on same page... abt 6 households apart
? Wheeler George 1872 Eng, immi 1888 Railroad Breakerman
Margaret 1875 Ire, immi 1885
Robert 1892
Eleanor 1897
Born in Louisiana.
Young
Richard 1856
Ann 1850
Emmly 1880
Ella 1882
Milton 1884
Joanna 1886
Walter 1891
Alun (Brother ?)
-
I am attached to those Youngs who went out to NY from Liverpool in 1894 because that is the only Charles Young we've found who has any connection (in the censuses) with Islington, Liverpool; and we know that that was the birthplace given on the army papers of 1914 for the man who married Emily Wheeler.
I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that these are different people.
We know that Sidney was born in UK though there is no sign of him at all in the 1911 census. We haven't found any convincing births for Joanne, and no trace of her in 1911 either. And we haven't found any Charles/Emily couples who look likely in 1911.
It seems that Charles emigrated to USA with his family in 1894. We know that his brother Dwight was back in UK fairly soon as he's in the 1901 census but the rest of the family hasn't been found. we just don't know (yet!) if it's the right Charles - but I suspect it is.
So maybe Charles met Emily in the USA and Joanne was born there; maybe other children were born there too. They must have returned to UK prior to Sidney's birth and they were here in 1914 but maybe they went back to the USA, either to live or to visit family, inbetween those dates and missed the 1911 census.
So it would be really good to be able to check out those immigration to the UK records for Charles, Emily, "Jonanna" and Sidney Young that are listed on Ancestry. Until they're checked, I will carry on believing that the scenario I propose above is a possibility!
-
I've just been speaking to my sister on the phone and she told me she's certain two of my father's sisters are named Winifred and Margaret. She said she thought they were Wheelers and that it was around the late 1970s when they came to visit my aunt Joanna. She said they had come from London. And my cousin told me that his mum went to London to see them. It does look like Emily perhaps was in London after all at some point. x x
-
So -- they were Wheelers, and they were travelling to London in the late 1970's -
they would have been quite elderly ladies, I'd guess?
So I wonder when Emily adopted the Young surname - was it only for Sidney after all?
-
Hi all,
I've been following this from the start, but have now got completely lost!!!!! (don't think a couple of glasses of wine have helped!!)
Which years are we looking for on the incoming lists? I can have a look now!!
Paula
-
Shaun I think somewhere it says that Charles occupation on the marriage and Sidney and Dorothy's birth certificates is the same - slater.
I think that is buried somewhere on the first thread, and although I think it says labourer on the WW1 service record the address he gave was the same as the marriage certificate.
Hi Jaywit. Charles' father Richard was a labourer according to the marriage cert, but Charles was a Private in the RWF, occupation Slater. I know for definite my grandfather Charles Young was a Slater as my mother told me, and it is on my mum and dad's marriage cert that Charles is a journeyman Slater. This was in September 1939. It must have been shortly before Charles died that he became a jobbing gardener, and that is the occupation on his death cert, but his trade was definitely journeyman slater. I don't get the impression that my father was close to his father, which would indicate that he hadn't really had much contact with him before he died and Slater was the last known trade that my father knew about, which is why it is on my parents' marriage cert. x x
-
Ancetry won't give me the years for incoming lists, only the names.
I searched for Young -- Charles, Emily, Joanna (found a Joan and a "jonanna") and Sidney.
I found immigrations from New York to Liverpool for each of those names but I don't know the dates. Is that enough to go on to chekc them out?
Looking at 1911 Winifred Wheeler and again I may be getting too distracted by false leads but in Liverpool there is a family of Wheeler siblings:
Helen Margaret age 27
Mary Charlotte age 25
Winifred Nicholas age 22
John Victor age 13
The first 3 are all American residents but "British subject by parents"; John was born in Liverpool.
Worth checking out?
-
So -- they were Wheelers, and they were travelling to London in the late 1970's -
they would have been quite elderly ladies, I'd guess?
So I wonder when Emily adopted the Young surname - was it only for Sidney after all?
No, they travelled from London to Salford, Lancs. Then my aunt Joanna went to meet them in London a bit later. But my sister was sure they were Wheelers. x x
-
Ancetry won't give me the years for incoming lists, only the names.
I searched for Young -- Charles, Emily, Joanna (found a Joan and a "jonanna") and Sidney.
I found immigrations from New York to Liverpool for each of those names but I don't know the dates. Is that enough to go on to chekc them out?
Looking at 1911 Winifred Wheeler and again I may be getting too distracted by false leads but in Liverpool there is a family of Wheeler siblings:
Helen Margaret age 27
Mary Charlotte age 25
Winifred Nicholas age 22
John Victor age 13
The first 3 are all American residents but "British subject by parents"; John was born in Liverpool.
Worth checking out?
All my father's sisters were born before 1909, which is the year my father was born, but only three of them were born after 1901, /that is Joanna, Ellen, and my father's twin sister Dorothy. None were born after 1909 and my father is the only boy of the family..
-
Arrived- 27/10/1909
Name if ship - Lake erie, date of arrival- oct 1909, whence arrived - montreal & ?, port of arrival - LIverpool
R Young, 35 (can't read occ, although lots of others look the same!)
Mrs " " , 25
Harry Young, 2
Sidney Young, 3m
-
Moogaloo, you/your father may be right -- he may have been the only boy in the family.
But surprises can happen, especially if he had older half-siblings who may not have lived with him. Older siblings could also have died.
I'm just saying -- don't rule something out just because it contains the name of an older boy, if other names may fit.
-
Arrived- 27/10/1909
Name if ship - Lake erie, date of arrival- oct 1909, whence arrived - montreal & ?, port of arrival - LIverpool
R Young, 35 (can't read occ, although lots of others look the same!)
Mrs " " , 25
Harry Young, 2
Sidney Young, 3m
My dad (Sidney Young) was born in Walcot, Bath, Somerset chuck, so this can't be him. Only explanation for this being connected to us is if the R Young is related to Charles my grandfather, perhaps a brother or cousin who named their child Sidney too. x x
-
Wheelers are complicated :(
Followed up the Emily Wheeler aged 9 1881 Census Orphan Birth Parish Aston
1891 Emily Wheeler 21 housemaid Birth place Bidford (5 miles from Aston)
1901 Emily Wheeler, birthplace Bidford married to a Harry WHEELER with two children Harry 4 an Emily 3
Marriage easy to cross index with both names being Wheeler Not one matches between 1891 and 1911.
1911 Census no trace of either Emily Wheeler, Harry (husband ) or children. No deaths registered for him between 1901 and end 1911. They disappeared.
Ok so going to look at emmigration now
-
R=Richard... possible ones... :D
-
By the way I came across an army marriage you may be interested in
Charles Wheeler married Bloemfontein 1906
-
Name of ship- Caronia (?),Date of arrival - 17/7/1910, whence arrived - New York, Port of arrival - Liverpool.
Holding through ticket to Bristol, although looks like they landed at Liverpool.
Charles Young, (no occ)
Emily Young, his wife
Charles Young, child
Mary Young, child
Nellie Young, child
-
Moogaloo, you/your father may be right -- he may have been the only boy in the family.
But surprises can happen, especially if he had older half-siblings who may not have lived with him. Older siblings could also have died.
I'm just saying -- don't rule something out just because it contains the name of an older boy, if other names may fit.
I suppose it is quite possible that if Charles was married before he married Emily Wheeler then it is possible there may have been other male siblings, but from what my Aunt Joanna said, there were eight girls and my father. She was most definite about that. x x
-
I've found that Wheeler family in Liverpool in 1901, with parents John and Annie, so sadly that wasn't them either!
-
Don't know about everyone else, but my head is just cabbaged with all this information lol. I need a brew and some chocolate, lol. x x
:)
-
1901 census: Winifred Wheeler with mother Emily - there are 3. None of the Emily's are young enough to have married in 1914 in their late 30's.
So that's another dead end, unless someone is cleverer than me with their searches.
-
CHARLES YOUNG 37 YRS Laborour 6/6/1911 on Carmania out of Liverpool accompanied by Frank Young aged 10. Charles Young's next of kin were given as Mr and Mrs Young, 19 Bower Lane, Maidstone, Kent. Frank's nok were given as same but saying grandparents. Back to look at some more
-
If Emily had at least 4 children before Ellen and Joan, then she should be in the 1901 census with those children.
It's likely that the children would have been born over the previous 10 years max, probably over a shorter length of time. Emily's pututive dob, from her marraige cert has been 1876 - it certainly can't have been much later if she was to fit in 4 children before 1901/2.
I have searched the 1901 census for female Wheelers born anywhere in the country between 1891 - 1901, with a mother named Emily. There were 108 hits and not one single one of those looked to fit the bill - No family with a suitbly aged mother called Emily and daughter called Winifred or Margaret; no misspellings or shortened versions of these names.
We could spend lots more time searching for abbrevs etc of Emily too - might she have been known as Amelia? Amy? Emma? Milly? - but there don't appear to be any Winifred or Margaret Wheelers with a suitably aged mother with any of those names either.
So I am stumped. And I'm going to bed. Good night, and better luck over the w/e!
-
Knowing the trouble I had with the Navy side in my lot..... ;)
1881. Charles Young b St Gluvias, Penryn Cornwall 3yrs bc 1878/9 with Grandmother and sibs.
1891. agd 17 'Impregnable' oh!! whoppers to get 'in'.. aged 1874 !! bp St Gluvias Cornwall.
1901. Gibraltar RN. aged 22yrs (back to 1878/9) and 'Mar' is this married?
............. I cant find a suitable wife ???
............ maybe she died... ?
1911. ?? is this the same Charles in Institution Bodmin, Cornwall agd 34-1877 ??
-
I think you can rule out Charles and Emily to USA. There are 13155 Youngs and on narrowing it down to Charles with a dob range from 1870 to 1880 none of them fitted - Your Emily Wheeler doesnt fit any of them either. Nite nite :)
-
Nite everyone. Thanks for all your hard work. God bless. Mary x x
-
There's an Emily and Edward Wheeler in Hampshire 1881 & Caroline and Edward Wheeler.
I'm sure there was an Emily Kate Wheeler in 1881 census...born to Edward and Emily in Hampshire.
PS....
Emily Kate BREWER was the Charles Young wife in Hamps....
Births
Jun 1875
Wheeler Emily I. Wight 2b 544
Dec 1877
WHEELER Emily I. Wight 2b 575
Sep 1879
Wheeler Emily Elizabeth Farnham 2a 99
Mar 1880
Wheeler Emily Romsey 2c 85
Jun 1880
WHEELER Emily Midhurst 2b 432 ...... Deaths Jun 1882 Wheeler Emily 2 Midhurst 2b 255
Sep 1880
WHEELER Emily Kate I. Wight 2b 629
1881 Brading Hamps. d/o
Edward Wheeler 26 Rail Lab Landport Hants
Emily 23 Newchurch I of W
Oliver 3 Brading Iof W
Emily Kate 7mnths Brading I of W
1891 Park Fields, Wootten Common, Arreton Iof W (Newport)
Edward head 36 (1855) Railway Lab Landport.
Emily wife 34 (1857) (?Newcastle?) Newport I of W Rolands
Oliver J son 13 (1878) Gardeners assist Brading.
Kate E daug 10 (1881) Brading.
Authur son 6 (1885) Arreton I of W Little Town.
Ada daug 3 (1888) Parksfield I of W.
RG12 889 5 4
1901 (no Emily Kate)
Packsfield, Wootten Isle of Wight, North Arreton, Littletown.
Edward 45 (1856) Permanent Way Ganger Landport Hamps
Emily 43 (1858) Rolands I o W
Oliver J 23 (1878) Cowman. Brading, I of W
Ada 13 (1888) Packsfield, I of W
Frederick 5 (1896) Packsfield, I of W
RG13 1019 78 9
1901 Ryde I of w ..for poss Kate..... with Liverpool link too !!
William H Walford head 65 (1836) Master Mariner Albone Suffolk
Emma wife 62 (1839) Liverpool Lancashire
Emma J Vanner serv 23 (1878) Cook Ryde I of W
Kathleen Wheeler serv 21 (1880) Brading I of W
RG13 1025 17 26
Marriages...
Emily M WHEELER married Walter I BAKER at St John, Sandown, Isle of Wight . Mar 1902
-
Lesanne I think that is the Romsey Emily we have already ruled out.
-
:-\
Marriages Mar 1902
Baker Walter Isaac
Hayden Rose Emma J
Wheeler Emily Maria
Wheeler Sydney John
I. Wight 2b 1017
-
Emily M WHEELER married Walter I BAKER at St John, Sandown, Isle of Wight
-
That's great fanx bk. I'll add to post.
Did u find Sydney anywhere with Rose?
-
Yes - they married at the same place.
-
A quick word from me today, this is all I have time for.
The St Annes London Emily who disappears after 1891 has been bugging me.
1901 RG13/5/107/41
Eliza Wheeler wife, no husband there.
She has eldest daughter Elizabeth with her and some younger children including twins Alice and Lily, it says 4(then a line through) which has been transcribed as months. ( all children to Eliza)
Now Eliza was born 1849ish.
There is a tree on Ancestry looks like descendents of Alice, they say born 1897, but no exact date which makes me think they haven't got her birth certificate.
Now there is this birth.
Lily Martha Wheeler
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Paddington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 27
Right area but I can't see a matching birth for Alice.
Alarm bells are ringing with me,
Who is the mother of the youngest 2?
Why can't I find a matching birth for Alice?
Where is Edward?
BTW Eldest daughter Elizabeth is a dressmaker.
Anyone like to have a go at this little lot?
( I suspect the tree owner has Alice's marriage certificate which I guess must say father Edward) but...........
-
Jaywit,
There's a baptism for Lily Martha Wheeler at St Jude Kensal Green on 5th May 1898. Parents Sarah Emily Wheeler and Hyda Wheeler, a carpenter, of 6 Ashmore Road
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,425394.msg2905016.html#msg2905016
This is a summary for the Hampshire Emily's. this thread.. page 10
working on one with Liverpool link. she is serv in house
-
... Try this 1911 combo.
Charles Young
exact = 1877
residence = Axbridge Somerset
age 34
with :P
Sidney Young
exact = 1910
residence = Axbridge Somerset
age 1
Jamajo and me have had a good few hours playing at this one.... :D
Can't wait to find out the transcipt for the household...
fingers and toes crossed.
-
Not promising :(
It's the farmer from Wrington with wife Rose and daughter Amy aged 2 . Amy and Sidney have no place of birth given
-
:D
Ah well, off we go again then... Hey ho
-
Sorry Lesanne :'(
-
:) No worries... I have Youngs in Oxford doing the same....
and don't mention... sssssh!!! Norris or Cox 44 yrs there... haha
Hope you find them Mary.... best wishes Lesanne.
-
Think I've resigned myself to the fact we're not gonna find Emily Wheeler. I asked my cousin today where his mother Joanna Young was born and all he could tell me was she was born in the south somewhere. Said he hasn't a clue where her birth, marriage or death cert are. There's one other cousin I could ask, but I've not found him in yet when I've rung him. Might write to him and ask him. Don't wanna bother him too much as he's only just recovering from an operation for cancer. But he's gettin on for his eighties too so I don't know how much he'll actually remember or if he's got any documents of his mother's. My cousin who I went to see today has just returned from a stay in a care home as he had a bad fall and was in his flat for five days before a neighbour realised he hadn't seen him. They broke in and found him on the floor. He's lucky he's still with us, but he's quite shaken up so I couldn't really question him much at all. He's in good spirits but a bit confused. I'll phone his brother tomorrow or Monday and if he's not in I'll drop him a line. Thanks everyone for trying so hard to find my rellies. You're all gems. x x
-
Mary..........there's a few sad tales with your family, I do hope everything works out for them.
Barbara
-
Hi
Does this mean anything
Richard as your Marriage cert Charles. on post one part one.
Contact Liverpool register office quote this number
Marriages June to Sep 1861
ANDREWS Mary Ann- YOUNG Richard Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool 2053LP/40/462
National Websites 8b 157 Liverpool
RICHARD YOUNG of Richard and Alice Young
baptized 29 APR 1832 Saint Peter's church Liverpool
Lived Moss-side Salford Manchester after marriage in 1861
Births Jun 1874
YOUNG Charles Salford 8d 55 :-\ a gamble
Emily Harriet of George & Elizabeth Wheeler bapt 02 FEB 1876 Saint Paul Liverpool
Jan -March 1876
Wheeler Emily Harriet West Derby 8b 245
West Derby is part Liverpool
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/west%20derby.html
Dates Fit and memtioned Locations
Merry Xmas ALL
Dobby
-
Mary..........there's a few sad tales with your family, I do hope everything works out for them.
Barbara
Thanks so much Barbara. That's what happens in families hey? Life has a habit of getting in the way of other stuff lol. Still, I guess we'll just go on searching anyway, because we're addicted. lol. x x
-
... Try this 1911 combo.
Charles Young
exact = 1877
residence = Axbridge Somerset
age 34
with :P
Sidney Young
exact = 1910
residence = Axbridge Somerset
age 1
Jamajo and me have had a good few hours playing at this one.... :D
Can't wait to find out the transcipt for the household...
fingers and toes crossed.
Looks interesting Lesanne x x
-
And you're certainly getting a lot of information Mary, just hope you can sort it all out ;D ;D I'm afraid I got lost after page 3 on the first thread ;) ;)
Please pass on my best wishes to the family and that I hope for a speedy recovery. :)
-
Nearly forgot! MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!
-
Merry Christmas to you and Yours Mary :)
-
I'm afraid I've got lost too. :-\ (I often follow these threads even if they're not in an area I can help with)
Have we found any positive leads yet?
If we have, can you give a round up of what's been found and what we're still looking for?
-
And you're certainly getting a lot of information Mary, just hope you can sort it all out ;D ;D I'm afraid I got lost after page 3 on the first thread ;) ;)
Please pass on my best wishes to the family and that I hope for a speedy recovery. :)
Yeah Barbara. First I have to sort my head out, and then get to work on all this info. Thanks for your good wishes for my family too Barbara. You've all been so good at searching. Don't know how to thank you all for the headache I'm gonna have trawling through this lot lol. Seriously though, I'm so grateful to you all. I got lost after the first page lol. Anyway I'm wishing you all a very happy Christmas and New Year. Hope you all get all you wish for. God bless you all. Mary x x :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
-
I'm afraid I've got lost too. :-\ (I often follow these threads even if they're not in an area I can help with)
Have we found any positive leads yet?
If we have, can you give a round up of what's been found and what we're still looking for?
That's an excellent idea Bearcat... ;).... Lessane or DebD usually do a really good round up, but perhaps Mary could do a short one for now.
-
I'm afraid I've got lost too. :-\ (I often follow these threads even if they're not in an area I can help with)
Have we found any positive leads yet?
If we have, can you give a round up of what's been found and what we're still looking for?
That's an excellent idea Bearcat... ;).... Lessane or DebD usually do a really good round up, but perhaps Mary could do a short one for now.
I do hope you're joking Barbara about me doing a round up. Can't even round up my thoughts at the mo lol. If I do a round up right now, Heaven knows where everyone will end up lol. Anyone who wants to do it please feel free. lol x x
-
OK, let's start with who you have definitely found, who are maybes and then who haven't been found.
Is that easier??
-
Jaywit,
There's a baptism for Lily Martha Wheeler at St Jude Kensal Green on 5th May 1898. Parents Sarah Emily Wheeler and Hyda Wheeler, a carpenter, of 6 Ashmore Road
So it looks like the Lily Martha birth I found was not the child with Eliza Wheeler in 1901.
So who were Alice and Lily twins?
Can anyone find a possible pair of twins called Lily and Alice born c1897?
I'll be back later to have a look
-
Jaywit, I think Alice and Lily are 14 and younger brother Ernest is 13.
-
Jaywit, I think Alice and Lily are 14 and younger brother Ernest is 13.
Shaun Thanks for that, checking back they are on 1891 age 4.
Now the problem is the tree on Ancestry ( now I know we don't believe all some of those trees say)
says that her her birth was 1897 and this about her marriage.
1925
Age: 28 Marriage to Alfred goss
St Marylebone, London, England
1st quarter volume 1a page 913
It also gives her parents as Edward and Eliza, so is that age a typo or did she say she was 28 instead of 38 on her marriage?
In my mind there are still too many loose ends on the London Wheeler family.
-
Jaywit, I think Alice and Lily are 14 and younger brother Ernest is 13.
Shaun Thanks for that, checking back they are on 1891 age 4.
Now the problem is the tree on Ancestry ( now I know we don't believe all some of those trees say)
says that her her birth was 1897 and this about her marriage.
1925
Age: 28 Marriage to Alfred goss
St Marylebone, London, England
1st quarter volume 1a page 913
It also gives her parents as Edward and Eliza, so is that age a typo or did she say she was 28 instead of 38 on her marriage?
In my mind there are still too many loose ends on the London Wheeler family.
My Wheeler family seems to be all loose end lol. x
-
Moog never mind ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think that tree on Ancestry is shall we say slightly wrong.
It says Alice had 9 children from her marriage to Mr Goss and in fact looking at the birth reg there could even be more born up to late 1930s/ early 1940s.
So not the children of someone born 1887 I think.
So have they attached their Alice to the wrong Wheeler family?
Is their tree all guess work?
It still doesn't solve the problem of that family there is still something not tying up.
-
I'm just thinking. As my father is the youngest of his siblings, then in 1937 when Charles died it is highly likely that his age is probably correct on his death cert as his youngest child(my dad Sidney Young) would have been 28. Given that some of the children were born before 1901 they would have been going on for their late thirties/early 40s, so he probably would have been 64 when he died. x x
-
Moog I don't think the age on death was far out but as I have said before ages on death certificates are only as good as the informant knows at the time.
The information on the army records was given by Charles himself so unless he was deliberatly lying in 1914 that age should be accurate.
-
As you've all probably lost the plot by now ;D I've left a post on the reason for Charles Young's discharge here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,425321.msg2905917.html#msg2905917
Essentially he was discharged due to being considered unfit for service within 3 months of enlistment.
Phil :)
-
Forester Thanks for that, it just seemed odd to us that it said medically fit on the attestation, and as you say with this family................
-
I'm not letting go of this family yet.
1911 has in Paddington district.
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER ALICE F 1888 23
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER ARTHUR M 1883
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER ELIZA F 1848 63
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER ERNEST M 1890 21
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER LITHE F 1888 23
HOUSEHOLD WHEELER FLORRIS F 1895 16
So Lithe is Lily, Florris is Florence.
No Edward, no older girls.
-
that Wheeler family Jaywit found certainly is worth following up, maybe its worth contacting the person who has the tree on ancestry
-
Toni, you wrote, right back in part 1:
no. 1 Emily b. circa 1874 Romsey father Edward b.1853 do. a Coachman Mother Caroline
no.2 Emily A b. circa 1875 Sudbury fateher Edward b.1838 a Butcher and later a butcher and farmer Mother Mary A
no.3 Emily b. circa 1876 London father Edward b.1848 a carman mother Eliza
no. 4 Emily b. circa 1877 Lumley Durham father Edward b.1839 a coal miner mother Jane Ann
The emboldened Emily is the daughter of Edward Wheeler and Caroline Fielder.
As it happens:
William Wheeler, born about 1826, Romsey, Hampshire married Sarah Young, born about 1836, Millbrook, Hampshire in December Quarter, 1857 in South Stoneham district, Hampshire.
Probably just a coincidence.
There's also a Charles Richard Wheeler born 1857, Romsey who married Emma (born 1856, Shrewton, Wiltshire). This Charles Richard Wheeler was the brother of Edward Wheeler who married Caroline Fielder (on 14 April 1873, Romsey Abbey). Coincidently, their grandfather was named Richard Wheeler. However, their father was Samuel Wheeler whilst their mother was Elizabeth Kirby.
I have Wheelers from this area in my own database.
-
Was searching old newspapers for my own research but of course Emily Wheeler came to mind. Is there any wonder we cannot find her :)
1891 April - Emily Wheeler, a tramp and persistent rough sleeper sent to prison for one month for sleeping in an outhouse in Kingstone
1891 again - Emily Wheeler, single young woman, a familiar figure in court, was brought up and sentenced to one month for sleeping rough on Mr Treadwell's premises.
Then there was an affiliation case brought by Emily Wheeler but it was dismissed.
Later a woman was sent for trial for stealing wearing apparel from Joseph Carter that belonged to his step daughter Emily Wheeler.
And so it went on :) Didn't get much of mine done!
-
could Joanna and Ellen be a Brewer refering to the one Lesanne found in Romsey ?
Emily Kate Wheeler d/o Edward & Caroline
although it seems Caroline was nee Fileder
Marriages Jun 1873 Romsey 2c 124
Brown Henry Frank
Fielder Caroline
Ward Anne
WHEELER Edward
They married 14 April 1873 at Romsey Abbey. Edward Wheeler was son of Samuel Wheeler and Elizabeth Kirby.
-
I has taken me the the best part of the morning to get up to date :-X with what is happening on paart 2.
You seem to have ruled oout many candidates but still no joy on the 1911 census.
I suggest that there is an outside possibbility that the namaes have been totally mistranscribed. Can't tell you how long I looked in the 1881 for DICKSEE only to eventually find it as DICKSON. Not had much luck finding them on later censuses either and one was a "SIR".
However the scope of ones imaginaton is the limit of surnames you could begin to search many spring to mind after looking at the deciphering board anything is possible.
Although it makes the researching harder and take longer. Perhaps it is time to be imaginative :-*
possibilites:Weller, Welter, Willis, Weltern, (have this surname once in my tree and no other matches anywhere in Australia, I found it clearly transcribed correctly as George Weltern when looking at the original real name was William Willie)
So still scratching my head over that one. (have all his birth and death details and 1863 marriage as William Willie but he is down as George Weltern on the daughters birth registration (she is on his death certificate as his only child)
good hiunting
Robyn
-
Hi Tephra
Found this on the web!
http://www.wringtonsomerset.org.uk/archive/personalquest/young.html
WOW! :D
Your doing a great job here! with your Savenger hunts ;D
Off back to Yorkie! out of my area here!
Merry Xmas
Dobby
-
Checked 1911 Canada cenus no Joanna's that matched only 2 "starts with Joan" :-\
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp for others reference.
can search other years there also
Robyn
-
Thanks for that Dobby......very interesting.
Barbara
-
I think the Emily form London i s a possibilty and also the fact they may be in Scotland
also i believe we did a 1911 search for Sydney / Sidney b. 1908/9 Bath / Walcot - nothing promisisng
-
I checked the 2 Joanna Youngs born 1903/1904 in Glasgow & in Perth. Neither had a mother called Emily nor a father called Charles.
-
Yes, I've checked the 1911 for all Sidneys born in 1908 - 1910 to no avail.
I find it strange though, not that they seem to be missing on the 1911 census, but that I couldn't find any trace of Emily and the older girls (winifred and Margaret) in 1901 either.
-
unless of course they are not Wheelers in 1901
-
1901 i can find 2 Winifred Wheelers with mother Emily
did you find these Annie ?
RG13; 1940; : 28; 18
Victor Wheeler 43
Emily 39 thus b. circa 1862 Westbury Wilts
Hedley 13
Florence 11
Winifred 8 b. Westbury Wilts
Frederick 5
Mary says all the other siblings were girls - what if this is Winnie & Emily mayeb young Fred died ?
is this too early for 'our' Emily
RG13; 122; 108; 67
James A Wheeler 32
Emily 36 b. 1865 Little Holland
Winifred J 1 b. Hampstead
-
there are 853 Margarets b. 1898 +/- 5 years in 1901 WITH mother Emily
(this is without the wheeler surname)
what if they were with other relatives?
what if she is under an assumed name like Polly?
-
Hi Toni
Has it been mentioned on either threads (parts1 & 2) what parish's the bride & groom came from on the Liverpool marriage Gro cert 1914 ??? of Charles and Emily. A thought that they could have married by a fast special Licence similar to early bond allegation marriages, They may have been married en route at Liverpool port from USA or another place overseas to the south of England. (Came home to join the army in the first WW1 or army Barracks in Liverpool pre embarkation)
My father and mother married similar in 1939 on the thought my father maybe sent to France (pre -Dunkirk time) WW2
Just a thought
-
i think they both gave their address as Holly Street on the marriage cert. this seems to be a boarding house
Mary doesnt say whether they married by Licence or banns
-
Hi Toni,
The marriage could have been a register office wedding but maybe a parish register! entry & there could be parish marriage entry in the local library or archives at Liverpool that may have more info on also at York. Charles army records or his army company records as to where they were stationed in 1914 (if any) may hold clues.
-
1901 i can find 2 Winifred Wheelers with mother Emily
did you find these Annie ?
RG13; 1940; : 28; 18
Victor Wheeler 43
Emily 39 thus b. circa 1862 Westbury Wilts
Hedley 13
Florence 11
Winifred 8 b. Westbury Wilts
Frederick 5
Mary says all the other siblings were girls - what if this is Winnie & Emily mayeb young Fred died ?
is this too early for 'our' Emily
RG13; 122; 108; 67
James A Wheeler 32
Emily 36 b. 1865 Little Holland
Winifred J 1 b. Hampstead
1911 - the first Winifred is still at home in Westbury with both parents as above and siblings Frederick and William.
The second, Winifred Jessie, is still living in Hampstead with parents as shown (married 13 years, father a postman).
So no joy there either.
-
Ps
All the Emily Wheeler Parish bapt entries (Or GRO's), areas of parish need checking for marriages of possible Emily wheeler's to try eliminating them and census for spinster Emily Wheeler who never married. Then need check burials for infant deaths and so on. This is the only way I can see to getting a footing to some real location bearing. Then try and fit it in with all this great info you posters have found or theories . Also other post replies on other websites of this couple.
-
The trouble is all we really know about Emily is that she claims to be born 1876 and her father was Edward a hawker and they lived at Holly Street Liverpool in 1914 and in 1909 he was in Walcot Bath where she gave birth to twins Sydney and Dorothy.
We know that Sydney had a sister Joanna b. circa August 1904 and a sister Ellen b. circa 1902 but if they well Joanne, was born in england or wales she wasnt registered unless she was registered under a differnt name
n.b. has anyone searched under infant or female youngs / wheelers births circa 1904 maybe her name was added after - i know her death gives an exact d.o.b but i'm inclined to still +/- a year or 2
We know that Emily Wheeler m. Charles Young in 1914 but she claimed to be already married to him in 1909 when she registered the twins birth.
Charles was born 1873 (from marriage) to 1877 from army papers in Islington Liverpool - he seems to be consistent with this, he was a slater by trade but served in the RWF - he was also discharged on medical grounds although he was declared medically fit 3 months previous when he signed up
Charles claim his father to be Richard
i really think any school records for Joanne and Sydney might help.
And i think the possible death records for Richard Young need following up
we think that Emily had 9 children altogether with Sydney and Dorothy being the last
we also think the children were all girls bar Sidney
with 2 girls being called Margaret and Winifred
We think there may be a London connection to Emilys family- def. south of Salford anyway!
We have assumed that Charles was probably not the father or the older children pre Ellen in 1902
should we be assuming this ?
if Emily was b. 1876 then she could realistically start having children in 1892 (aged 16) and she had Ellen in 1902 so you are looking at 10 years for births of 4 other children to Emily - all girls
We have assumed that Emily and Charles were not previusly married as they claim to be single on the marriage cert if this was the case though why wasnt they married on the presence of Ellen in 1902 ? - i dont think we can really assume this
-
Good resume Toni, problem is we still can't find either of them.
One thing with all this searching I have found my missing Emily Jane Wheeler in 1911 with her 'husband' and 2 children ( one of each) in Surrey.
Another one not married to the man she was with, I think she was married to someone else ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D (Oh and she had named her daughter after her grandmother, the one whose death I cant find)
-
Hi Toni
I didn't real want to get too involed with this Thread!(Though I'm in Yorkshire Liverpool is a little out of my range for archives and libraries) but its seems to be getting to the limits of census and online info.
I follow your line of thinking! There could be a Will of Richard Young and Edward Wheeler also Charles Young 1937. With so limited info pre 1914 back to 1902/ its the pre life of Emily either with another chap or with Charles but was Emily using the other chaps name and everted to her own at marriage to Charles or was they abroad in the USA. School records are a must!
I'll see what I can dig up in the new year!
-
Iffy ==== :-\ but could be
If People writing these Doc's of Charles Young's Birth got mixed up with the Islington Liverpool with Islington London
and The Royal Welsh Fusiliers 3rd (Reserve) Battalion
Returned maybe from London to Wrexham on 9 August 1914 but moved to Litherland near Liverpool in May 1914 and Charles with his bros and sis's birth place
Both 1881 c
Richard YOUNG Head 43 St Pancras, Middlesex, England Tailor
Mary Ann YOUNG Wife M 42 Islington, Middlesex, England
Henry YOUNG Son U 20 Islington, Middlesex, England General Laborer
Louisa YOUNG Daur 16 Islington, Middlesex, England General Servant
Alfred YOUNG Son 14 Tonbridge Wells, Kent, England Errand Boy
Frank YOUNG Son 10 Tonbridge Wells, Kent, England Scholar
Charlie YOUNG Son 8 Tonbridge Wells, Kent, England Scholar
Elizabeth YOUNG Daur 6 Maidstone, Kent, England Scholar
Mary Ann YOUNG Daur 3 Tonbridge, Kent, England Scholar
Richard YOUNG Son 1 Tonbridge, Kent, England
Jack YOUNG Son 2 m Tonbridge, Kent, England
10 Priory Street Tonbridge, Kent, England
Edward WHEELER Head M Male 33 St James Westminister Carman
Eliza WHEELER Wife M Female 35 St James Westminister
Edward WHEELER Son U Male 13 London, London, Middlesex, England
William WHEELER Son U Male 11 London, London, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth WHEELER Daughter U Female 9 London, London, Middlesex, England
Henry WHEELER Son Male 7 London, London, Middlesex, England
Emily WHEELER Daughter Female 5 London, London, Middlesex, England
Charles WHEELER Son Male 3 London, London, Middlesex, England
Arthur WHEELER Son Male 1 Kensington
West Side 23 All Saints Rd
London, Middlesex, England
-
Thats certianly worth following if nothing but to rule them out.
I did find another Richard Young retired army something or other list i think it said, he had a son Charles it may also be worth following these
i still think the marriage certificate gives us a window for Richards death - as posted in part 1
- however they may simply have not said/ not been asked that fathers were deceased
Jaywit thats gerat you have found them :)
I found my Wheelers in Wandsworth in 1911 its pre this i am having difficulty, they are not exactly my line in fact my partners 4xgt uncle married into that family but they were rouges and it adds some colour to the tree
added:
its also possible Charles and maybe his fatehr Richard served it he Boer War
Joanna wasnt all that common in the earlier 1900's as a name but could come from Johannasburg (when i say popular i mean as Mary for example ;D)
-
It's that time of the week again and here's this weeks Hunt......one to get your teeth into!!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,426030.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
Barbara
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
-
Births Jun 1904
Young Female Salisbury 5a 161
Births Dec 1904
YOUNG Female Sunderland 10a 700
Births Mar 1905
Young Female Kendal 10b 779
i specifically searched Q2 1904 - Q4 1905
and deaths
Deaths Jun 1904
Young Female 0 Newcastle T. 10b 69
Deaths Dec 1904 Young Female 0 Sunderland 10a 398
Deaths Mar 1905
Young Female 0 Kendal 10b 511
same period
sometimes the death was registerd before the birth was registered as you had 5 days to register a death but 42 days to regsiter a birth
so the Salisbury one is unaccounted for
-
obviously assuming Joanna was registred under Young or Wheeler and was born when her death cert states:
Deaths Dec 1904
Wheeler Female 0 Southampton 2c 19
Births Mar 1905
Wheeler Female Camberwell 1d 979
Deaths Mar 1905
Wheeler Female 0 Camberwell 1d 336
Births Jun 1905
Wheeler Female Malmesbury 5a 61
Deaths Jun 1905
Wheeler Female 0 Malmesbury 5a 27
Deaths Sep 1905
Wheeler Female 0 Southampton 2c 16
Births Dec 1905
Wheeler Female W. Ham 4a 436
Deaths Dec 1905
Wheeler Female 0 W. Ham 4a 203
-
I've checked out the Emily Wheeler dobfarm found - by 1901 she may have married a William Barney, Eliza (still married but no sign of Edward) and several Wheeler children are living with them in Paddington but sadly no Winifred or Margaret Barney :( Can't see the marriage at the moment.
Jan ;)
-
i wonder if the News of the World have an archive you could search, it wil take a long time for them to search through every appeal made in the 1970's if they had one every week 520 maybe they had more than one.
-
Moog I don't think the age on death was far out but as I have said before ages on death certificates are only as good as the informant knows at the time.
The information on the army records was given by Charles himself so unless he was deliberatly lying in 1914 that age should be accurate.
Hi Jaywit. Yeah I know that chuck, but all I meant was, given the ages of his children as we know them. Even if there had been others born after or before my dad and Joanna and Ellen, then it's likely he was in his sixties, so the age, if out at all wouldn't have been that far out. Thank you for all your hard work too chuck. Sorry I've not been on yesterday as I've not been very well. I really do appreciate everyone's input and hard work. You've all been absolutely fantastic. This is a great site too. Thanks again Jaywit. I'll have a look at that link you've left about Charles not being considered to become a good reservist in the army. God bless you all. Mary x x
-
men can father children right up to when they die - so when he had children has no bearing on this search except for searching for Emily
what are your thoughts on Richard Youngs death?
-
Hi Toni
I didn't real want to get too involed with this Thread!(Though I'm in Yorkshire Liverpool is a little out of my range for archives and libraries) but its seems to be getting to the limits of census and online info.
I follow your line of thinking! There could be a Will of Richard Young and Edward Wheeler also Charles Young 1937. With so limited info pre 1914 back to 1902/ its the pre life of Emily either with another chap or with Charles but was Emily using the other chaps name and everted to her own at marriage to Charles or was they abroad in the USA. School records are a must!
I'll see what I can dig up in the new year!
Hi there. Only just read your post. Not been on yesterday as I've not been too well, but I'd like to thank you for your offer of help in the new year.. Everyone on here has been so fantastic. Thank you again. God bless. Mary x x
-
Hi Mary,
The north/south link Liverpool/Salford and Wheelers London(ish) and if this link can found! That will give positives Names and areas to work! this will get us out of base camp one. I think. I do pre 1837 stuff normaly so I'm well use to looking for fine threads but mid census years there should be loads of positive info some where. Someone will find it.
Dave (Dobby)
-
i wonder if the News of the World have an archive you could search, it wil take a long time for them to search through every appeal made in the 1970's if they had one every week 520 maybe they had more than one.
I've sent an email to the News of the World Archives asking if it's possible to trace an advert or article that was put in nearly thirty years or so ago. They have replied saying they will get back to me and if I have any more details that I want to add, to send them to them. I just outlined that it was a family named Wheeler who placed and ad looking for their relatives and that my aunt Joanna Lawless answered the add. Here's hoping hey? x x
-
Hi Mary
Fingers crossed. :D Family info being its not that far back to still have or scope to still have them 1900's.
Good Luck <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Hope ;)
Dave :)
-
Hi ALL
From Mary's Post I've put some queries in bold brackets
Quote;-
Hi Liz. No, sorry, I don't have access to the 1911 census. I just typed a very lengthy reply and it's just disappeared on me, so I'll have to start again. I know there were surviving siblings apart from my father's twin, but apart from my two aunts who came to Salford with my father in the 1920s with Charles Young I have no clue even as to the names of the other sisters. I believe there were 8 girls in all, my father being the only male of the family, so there is no male line to follow apart from my dad and Charles Young. My aunt Joanna was born August 1904(don't know where, My aunt Ellen born 1902, again don't know where. I do know my aunt answered an advertising article in the News of the World, I think in the 1970s placed by Wheelers looking for their relatives and I think she went down to London to meet them, but I get the impression that they thought they were better than their Salford relatives. My aunt wasn't impressed by them. I don't know if she learned anything about her sisters though apart from that they were Wheelers,{They could be from Emily Wheeler brothers!?) so that makes me think that perhaps my father and his twin and my two aunts may be the only children of both Charles and Emily.(ONLY CHILDREN) I could of course be wrong about this. I've searched for my aunts Joanna and Ellen's births but with no luck. I'm beginning to think that Emily just didn't want to know the rest of her family, for whatever reason. I do know that she was never talked about, but my aunt Joanna always talked about her father being a very upright military man.(Puzzles me this-ie Posted Ireland maybe as Liverpool ferry)) I think Emily cheated on Charles whilst he was in the army and that's why the marriage ended. The only addresses I know of where they both were are 21 Holly Street, Liverpool in 1914(TEMP !!LIVERPOOL>Boarding House) and 38 Avon Street, Bath in 1909. x x (Permanent or Temp army lodgings? address)
-
The Bath address was a boarding house as well, I think.
-
so they didnt seem to have a permanant address suggests travellers obviously, army man in barracks children and wife not recognised or immigrants or simply they couldnt afford to buy a house
-
I think by 1908 Charles was travelling around the country working as a Slater on building sites.
Now some of the men that did this had a 'wife' in every port so to speak. (Ask PaulaToo about that)
So he hooked up with Emma either in Bath or somewhere in the south of England, but why we can't find them before or after until 1914 is still a mystery
-
if Charles was a journeyman slater then we wont find a permanant address for him not even in the directories
because evidence would suggest he took lodgings however he may well have taken insurance for his belongings and thus you should look out insurance records in addition to Joanne and sydneys school records
-
if Charles was a journeyman slater then we wont find a permanant address for him not even in the directories
because evidence would suggest he took lodgings however he may well have taken insurance for his belongings and thus you should look out insurance records in addition to Joanne and sydneys school records
The snag here is that we don't know where they were so it's impossible to find which schools they went to. How do you look out insurance records? x x
-
we know they were in the Walcot area of Bath in 1909 if Joanna was born in 1904 she would have been 5 and old enough to attend school, also the parent would have been put on notice to have Sydney and Dorothy vaccnated against smallpox - these records would be held at the Local RO,
in 1914 again we know they were in Holly Street Liverpool and by then Sydney was old enough to attend school - so find the nearest school to Holly Street.
-
we know they were in the Walcot area of Bath in 1909 if Joanna was born in 1904 she would have been 5 and old enough to attend school, also the parent would have been put on notice to have Sydney and Dorothy vaccnated against smallpox - these records would be held at the Local RO,
in 1914 again we know they were in Holly Street Liverpool and by then Sydney was old enough to attend school - so find the nearest school to Holly Street.
As you can probably tell, my head is not working today toni. How do I check the school records. And aren't vaccinations classed as medical records? I'm not very good at this, which is probably why I've got nowhere with my search. Is this classified information or open to the public?
-
Hi All
Maybe some can follow this up?
http://www.jstor.org/pss/907427
Only half a Story and need to register for the pre stories in search
Music
Dave
-
Another Iffy
In relation to Bath and the A350 Bath to Lymington road link may not be so Iffy
1881c
Charles YOUNG Son Male 10 Christchurch, Hampshire, England Scholar
Richard YOUNG Head M Male 36 Christchurch, Hampshire, England General Labourer Mary YOUNG
Births Dec 1873
1891c YOUNG Charles A - S M 19 Gunner, R A Hampshire -born Lymington Hampshire
Address: Hurst Castle Barracks, Hurst
Lymington Hampshire
Young Charles Christchurch 2b 587
Edward WHEELER Head M Male 28 Romsey, Hampshire, England Coachman (D) Caroline WHEELER Wife M Female 27 Romsey, Hampshire, England Wife
Emily WHEELER Daur Female 7 Romsey, Hampshire, England Scholar
Births Sep 1873
WHEELER Emily Romsey 2c 74
bapt
14 DEC 1873 Romsey, Hampshire, England
Father: EDWARD WHEELER Family Mother: CAROLINE
Yet still can find anything on occupations Milk/Cheese Mixer Stator or Quarry slater or Roof slater anywhere for a Charles Young
-
we ruled those out Dobby
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,266510.msg1515494.html#msg1515494
-
Hi Toni,
I know about these school records and small pots registers which if they survived are a very good source point. The problem is as you point out in the link is finding which area or record office/archive to check and in most cases this is not a problem. However to be a realist with the time needed-travel and expense to search all these counties! it could take a very long time in this family Young history......case.
Dave
-
Hello all,
I don't know if it's help or hindrance, but I was working on a post the other night in Lancs and the occupation that came up was Flagger and Slater (Road Labourer).
On Charles Young's Attestation Form he is down as a general labourer.
Phil
-
Hi Philp,
You my just have just crack this? and Bath is Somerset area
1891c
Wincanton -Somerset Enumeration District: 13
Yarlington
YOUNG Elizabeth Head W F 65 Road Contractor(Em'er) Somerset - Kingweston
YOUNG George Son S M 27 Road Contractor(Em'er) Somerset - Nunney
YOUNG Charles Son S M 22 Road Contractor(Em'er) Somerset - Pitcombe
Need to check other census years for father or Elizabeth's hubby
Dave
-
YOUNG Charles Sidney Walcot - First Series Bath LOVELL WL1/22/189
Bath Birth indexes for the years: 1870
http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/cgi/pba.cgi?date=1870&county=bath&reference=BH%3AWL1%2F22%2F189&file=Y&pos=344&area=BH
http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=bath#surname