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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 10:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 10:40 GMT (UK)
I know just almost everything about my great grandfather but I am missing the name of the ship in which he travelled to Australia..
Name - John SCOTT b 3.6.1828 Burton End, Haverhill, Suffolk England,  son of John & Sarah  (nee Henderson ) Scott.
Some time before 1870 he arrived in Australia, because he married Mary Ann Rash ( b 28.3.1854 Hinton NSW Australia) , on 23rd November 1870 at the Presbyterian Manse in West Melbourne. At the time of this marriage John was about 43.
 Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: cando on Tuesday 15 December 09 12:30 GMT (UK)
Do you have his death certificate?  It should show the years in Australia and each state if applicable.  May help narrow down the years to search.

Cando

Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 19:52 GMT (UK)
He only lived in Victoria - sorry  that's all I have.
I know it's a very big ask.
xx Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 15 December 09 19:54 GMT (UK)
Did his death certificate say he only lived in Victoria?

Have you found him on  the census in England? 

thanks Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 19:58 GMT (UK)
Sorry I haven't checked the census in England. ... !!!!
xx Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 15 December 09 20:04 GMT (UK)
Finding him on  the Census in England will help to  narrow down a time frame for his arrival.

Can you tell us if you know what his occupation was 

thanks  Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 20:25 GMT (UK)
Sorry Jen, I just tried again to get access to the Haverhill 1851 Census but couldn't get it online.
He was a labourer and uneducated because he couldn't sign his name on the  marriage certificate, - it just said "John Scott - his mark ".
xx Ro

Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 15 December 09 20:26 GMT (UK)
Also very interesting to note  that  he fathered the last child in 1887 making him nearly 60,  not impossible as we know.

Can I ask  where you got  the information for his date of birth from please

thanks  Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 15 December 09 20:41 GMT (UK)
When and where he died also thanks

Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Tuesday 15 December 09 20:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks again Jen,
Here are the list of his hildren :
*  Sarah Jane b 1871
*. Blanche Rosalin b 22nd August 1874
*. Helena ( or Eleanor ) Phoebe b 1876
*. JOHN VICTOR b 1878
*. Claude William b  1879
*. Garnet Leslie b 1883
*. Henry Howard b  1886
*. Leonard b  1887
 His birth date was from a friend who transcribed them from the church records
in Bury St Edmunds.
xx Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Lin Up a Tree on Wednesday 16 December 09 03:00 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this is your ancestor,
but there was a John SCOTT age 22 (b. c. 1828/9) (same as your ancestor).
who came out (govt. assisted) on the "Emperor" in June 1851;
records say he was from "Battonend, Suffolk" or "Bottom end, Suffolk" (both of which sound a lot like "Burton End").

He could not write (same as your ancestor) - but could read.
Parents: John and Sarah (same as your ancestor).
Additional info:
 Father still in suffolk at the time, looks like mother had passed, no relatives in Australia.

ADDED INFO:
Here are some articles about the Emperor's voyage (and a little related gold fever):
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4778603?searchTerm=emperor
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12927931?searchTerm=emperor+log+plymouth
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Wednesday 16 December 09 04:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Lin,
This looks  as close as it could be - thankyou so much for your hard work - I had a feeling that I wasn't going to get any answers because it was so very vague.
This completes my list of ships for eight lines !!!!!
Re-reading my cousin's info -  she wrote that he was so dis-enchanted with not being able to find gold in the streets, he later booked a passage home to UK, only to miss the ship's departure & was left stranded with only the clothes he stood up in !!!!
Thanks agains & Merry Christmas
xx Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Lin Up a Tree on Wednesday 16 December 09 04:22 GMT (UK)
What a cool story!  ;D My pleasure to help, very merry Christmas to you too  :D
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 16 December 09 04:59 GMT (UK)
Well found Lin  looks  like it may very well have been his arrival

Roseamry,  do you  have his death details please

thanks Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Wednesday 16 December 09 05:23 GMT (UK)
Hi again,

It looks like we may have hit the jackpot alright.

Just re -checked my cousin's notes - no I dont have a precise date for John - just the year of 1895. I did have a photo of the grave but cant find it after moving...  so many of my working notes are still in a folder I cant find.

I do know that John is listed on the Maldon Victoria Cemetery site as being buried with his wife Mary Ann.

xx Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: tropicalj on Wednesday 16 December 09 05:29 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Maldon.htm

If you contact  this person  they will send you another photo of the grave

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Wednesday 16 December 09 05:47 GMT (UK)
Fantastic !!!
 Thankyou ever so much for all your help.
Merry Christmas
Cheers Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Lin Up a Tree on Wednesday 16 December 09 06:02 GMT (UK)
thanks Jenn  :D 

re: death date for John --
Actually was it 1901? I had a look at the VIC BDM index & his details seem to fit for 1901, and can also see a burial for 5 Sep 1901 in Maldon.
According to what I can see on the same records, Mary Ann was buried also in Maldon in 1938 (18 Jan).
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Wednesday 16 December 09 07:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Lin,
I just this minute got  photos of the grave stones from Maldon Cemetery for both John & his son John.

It says John 5th September 1901 aged and Mary Ann 18th Jan 1938 - exactly right
 
Thanks for all your help - now you can come down out of that tree - LOL LOL
Cheers
Ro

Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Lin Up a Tree on Thursday 17 December 09 07:10 GMT (UK)
o yay you lucky thing!  :D

and LOL re: coming down from the tree!  ;D  Everytime I try the darn thing calls me back  ;D
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: jreece94 on Sunday 10 June 12 12:04 BST (UK)
Hello,
I hope you will read this - I have JOHN SCOTT emigrated on the EMPEROR in 1851,   who I believe married my gt gt aunt Alice Anne MORRIS 1852 West Maitland and then moved to Victoria.  I have three children born to them and further information.

This would tie in with a second marriage for John.

Hoping you will make contact.

Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: Roseamry on Sunday 10 June 12 22:43 BST (UK)
Hello and thanks for the contact.
As you can see I have got this as a reply to a request and have not been able to verify it, but am inclined to take it as correct.
The  records stated he was from "Battonend, Suffolk" or "Bottom end, Suffolk", both of which sound a lot like "Burton End" where he was born. Also that he could read but not write !

My John Scott was born at Burton End, 1828, and I have been able to verify that members of the family had lived there for many years, and many descendants are still there.

He was very disenchanted with what he found in Melbourne - hoping to find gold literally in the streets of Melbourne , but to no avail, so in disgust he booked his passage to return home as soon as he could. He went to say goodbye to some friends, but when he returned to the dock the ship had sailed along with everything he owned !

He married Mary Rash, formally of Haverhill, England, in 1870, and lived out his life in Maldon Victoria.

So nice to have contact with other researchers
regards Ro
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: jreece94 on Monday 11 June 12 09:09 BST (UK)
Hello Ro,

Thank you for your reply.

This is a valid message - re John Scott.  I have only recently received the information on the marriage of a John Scott  - NSW BDM V185216985/1852 to my gt gt aunt Alice Anne MORRIS at Wesleyean Church, West Maitland, NSW.  They then moved to Victoria and 3 children were born. Jessy 1853 b. Florz,  Annie Elizabeth 1855, Castelmaine,  and Walter Thomas 1856 Victoria.    Jessy and Walter died in infancy.   Then Alice left and went to America and is said to have married a man named Andrews.  I have not been able to check the records at Ellis Island as yet so I can't confirm this.

The above information is from records dated 1891 in the Clarence River Historical Society, Grafton where Alice's father and brother settled as farmers and the marriage and births from BDMs.   

While searching around for more on John I found a John Scott on the ship's indent for the EMPEROR, June 1851, the same ship as Alice and her brother Jesse emigrated on to NSW.  You have also seen that it says Bottom End, Suffolk as the birthplace, which I think is Burton End.  I have also looked at the census records and found the family in the 1841.

I do believe that this is the same John and am really interested in what I have found from your researches.  Also I have not found a death for Annie Elizabeth Scott as yet so I wonder what happened to her. 

It is a sad story but not unusual for those times.

Kind regards.

Reece
Title: Re: Immigration to Australia - John SCOTT
Post by: jreece94 on Monday 11 June 12 11:27 BST (UK)
Hello Ro,

I have sent a pm in reply to yours of this morning.  Hope you receive it but please let me know if not.
Regards,
Reece