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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: danuslave on Monday 14 December 09 11:59 GMT (UK)
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If a child's father (husband of mother) died before the child was born, would he be shown on the birth certificate?
Linda
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Hi
I don't know for sure about birth certificates but the father is often marked as 'deceased' on marriage certificates. The one case in my tree that I can think of - Dorothy Heaviside was listed in the parish baptism records as daughter of John and Mary although John had died some weeks before the christening (Durham Bishop's Transcripts>Durham>Durham>1773-1869 image 556).
All the best
Gobbo
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Hello
Yes my father is named on my birth certifcate and he died 3 months before I was born
Sylvia
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i see Slyvia has the authority in this matter however i was just going to say that yes he would be if the woman was married - if not and the birth occured after 1875 then no because before 1875 the lady could say anyone was the faterh and he be put on teh certificate afetr 18756 the father needed to be present or a written declaration provided unless the woman was married in which case tehe baby was assuemd to be that of the husband if this was the case or not.
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Thanks everyone - I hoped it might be the case
Linda
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I've an 1837 birth certificate in which the deceased father was named - even though he had died some 4 years (ahem!) before the birth :o
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I've an 1837 birth certificate in which the deceased father was named - even though he had died some 4 years (ahem!) before the birth :o
Now that IS a good one - none of my people have tried to get away with anything like that :o Lack of imagination perhaps....
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I've an 1837 birth certificate in which the deceased father was named - even though he had died some 4 years (ahem!) before the birth :o
Now that IS a good one - none of my people have tried to get away with anything like that :o Lack of imagination perhaps....
err... :o err ... so were you able to figure out who the father actually was ? Did the 1841 census help with clues ;)
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I've an 1837 birth certificate in which the deceased father was named - even though he had died some 4 years (ahem!) before the birth :o
Now that IS a good one - none of my people have tried to get away with anything like that :o Lack of imagination perhaps....
err... :o err ... so were you able to figure out who the father actually was ? Did the 1841 census help with clues ;)
Fortunately there was a strong clue to his true paternity, in that the baby's middle name (Moore) was the surname of the man his mother married soon afterwards.
Anna :)
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I've an 1837 birth certificate in which the deceased father was named - even though he had died some 4 years (ahem!) before the birth :o
Now that IS a good one - none of my people have tried to get away with anything like that :o Lack of imagination perhaps....
Long gestation period then, I thought it was only Elephants who carried their young a long long time. Even they only carry them for 2 yrs.
marcie ;)
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a married woman had a child bp. in Fletching and the entry reads .... s/o ...... a married woman then a note int he margin .reads .....claims her husband to be the father however he has been serving abroad for over a year and thus that is not the case.
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You would have thought that she would at least have stated for the last 8 months to make it believable. ???
marcie
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i think the vicar knew the family
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Image 562 of the same series of images of the baptism of Dorothy Heaviside gives the burial of her father. John Heaviside as 16 August 1830 six weeks after the baptism of Dorothy. Both the residence of Dorothy and John are given as Court Lane, Durham. John aged 41 on the burial and Schoolmaster on the baptism. However Mary Wandless, second wife of John Heaviside, did have 4 children born outside of the marriage with no known fathers. William Wandless, bap 19 August 1824, Jesuits, Durham City. Ann Heaviside, born Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 1833. Margaret and Frederick Heaviside both bap 11 May 1836, St. Oswald, Durham City.
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Hi Barry
You are quite right and I don't know what I was thinking about when I claimed that John Heaviside died before Dorothy's christening. Ann born 1834 and the twins born 1836 were clearly born long after John died and definitely not his children. I have not found a birth record for Ann but deduced the birth year from the 1841 and 1851 census records. The baptism of the twins was recorded in the Bishops' transcripts - Durham>Durham>1773-1869 image 638 - and both children are described as illegitimate but took the surname Heaviside.
John Heaviside produced a rich crop of descendents with many talents and it is a little frustrating that the on-line records of him are so poor. Before the marriage to Mary Wanless (Durham>Durham St Giles>1777-1857 image no. 204) he was married to Esther Palmer on 7 Oct 1819 (Durham>Durham>1773-1869 image 384) when he was described as a widower but I have not managed to trace an earlier marriage for him.
All the best
Gobbo
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I have the Birth certificate and Baptism of a child in 1903 which state name of the father and that he was deceased.
The parents were married.
Ambers
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Here is an example whre not only the father is named but the date of his death is given. Which was fortunate because I couldn't find his burial in the parish records.
Frank
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Hi Frank,
That registrar was following the regulations to the full extent ! How fortunate that civil registrations had commenced, and the registrar was obeying them to the letter.
Cheers, JM
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Yes it was fortunate. James was the younger brother of John, my ancester, who was born before civil registration and because I haven't found the marraige of their parents it gave me the mother's surname which broke down a bit of a brick wall.
It's not the only example I have of using a sibling's birth certificate around the time of civil registration to give info regarding parents.
On the note of father's on birth certificates. My paternal grandmother's parents had six children. Two before getting married and four after wedlock. All the children were registered in the mother's maiden name with no father shown.
Frank
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My G G Grandfather James Taylor was lost at sea (SS Albion) in Dec 1855. His son Andrew George was born in Aug 1856 and his BC states his name and underneath "(posthumous)". He was not a still birth - lived for 81 years!!!
Details of the loss of his father are also on the BC
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Some of the earlier parish registers were a little less ambiguous, as in this entry from the 1700s:
"Baptized Elizabeth Daughter of Philip Post and Mary Davis Begotten in Fornication" ::)
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Hi mike175
Some of the earlier parish registers were a little less ambiguous, as in this entry from the 1700s:
"Baptized Elizabeth Daughter of Philip Post and Mary Davis Begotten in Fornication" ::)
There's a lengthy thread on that topic http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,522648.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM,
Thanks for the interesting link, I didn't realise it was so frequently commented on in the registers . . . of course I knew it occurred everywhere, including among my own ancestors, despite my sheltered upbringing ;)
Mike.
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I've seen Posthumous given as a forename when the father of the child had died before they were born (Posthumous Pocock being my favourite!)
Ermy
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This Posthumous child is not my ancestor, but I rather wish he was:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevejarrett/2792082492/
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I've just come acros this thread at a convenient time, because I'm transcribing some PRs and one entry reads
".........son of John Eldershaw and his widow"
So, not only is the father dead, but the mother has become invisible too!
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I've just come acros this thread at a convenient time, because I'm transcribing some PRs and one entry reads
".........son of John Eldershaw and his widow"
So, not only is the father dead, but the mother has become invisible too!
Oh the poor FOUNDLING ... perhaps his mum died in childbirth .... how sad ... does the PR give him any godparents to oversee his upbringing? Or perhaps she was present and was known only as Widow Eldershaw ??? ;)
Cheers, JM
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Possibly not an infant baptism? Maybe an older child? An adult?
Maybe the clerk/curate/etc forgot the mother's name?
I've come across a lot of baptisms (reasonably early on) that only list the father's name or at best father's name followed by "and his wife".
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Even into the 20th century, it seems to have been usual for birth announcements in the newspapers not to name the mother, eg
"to the wife of John Smith, a son ..."
And presumably such announcements were placed by the family themselves, so no clerks or ministers to blame ;D
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Not really surprising. Back then (and a lot more recently) a married woman was known as Mrs John Smith - no identity of her own at all.
I hope it's not still the 'correct' form of address - but it could be :o
Linda
PS Mrs Elizabeth Smith would mean she was a widow