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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: DNAsearcher on Sunday 13 December 09 15:55 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for any information on the birth and marriage of Jemima Kennedy married to Henry Ferguson. I have details of her death in 1869 but nothing before that. She originated in the Liff & Benvie area and resided in Dundee at the time of her death.
Any info would be most welcome.
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They were married at Dundee on 25th May 1838. I'll try and find further details.
Isles.
The IGI shows the baptism of a Jamena (sic) Kennedy on the 14 Aug 1821 at Liff Benvie and Invergowrie, Angus, the father being Robert Kennedy.
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Thanks for the info. I have the information concerning her birth under the name Jamena and her father Robert and mother Elizabeth Peterkin, but I was not sure of the accuracy.
She died under tragic circumstances and commited suicide in 1869 - I will need to check if there were any children and review the census 1841 and 1851.
Many thanks
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There are no children showing on the OPRs for Henry and Jemima before the start of official registration in 1855. Post 1855, there are 6 children showing as born to them in Dundee including an 1855 birth entry for a Jean Thomson Ferguson. This would be worthwhile viewing on Scotlands People as it will re-confirm date of marriage and how many children they'd had up to then (boys/girls and alive/deceased). 1855 birth certs very often include age of parents and where they were born.
The 1851 census includes a 12 year old daughter so that marriage entry that Isles found in 1838 looks likely, also Jemima's census entry in 1851 also matches the details of the birth in 1821.
Monica :)
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Many thanks for the information. Unfortunately there is no image available in Scotlandspeople relating to Jean Thomson Ferguson, and census details concerning Henry and Jemina Ferguson seem to be sparse, but I will persevere.
Many thanks
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This looks to be a badly transcribed 1851 census entry from Ancestry (I haven't checked whether it shows on FreeCen):
Henary Ferguson 31, Police officer b. Liff, Forfarshire
Jemmers Ferguson 30 b. Liff, Forfarshire
Jess Ferguson 12, daughter mill worker b. Liff, Forfarshire
Henry Ferguson 5 b. Liff, Forfarshire
George Ferguson 8 Months b. Liff, Forfarshire
Sarah Mleod 20, lodger b. Ireland
Hellen McNay 21, lodger b. Ireland
Rosmond Mera 21, lodger b. Ireland
Address: Union St Maxwelltown, Dundee
Monica
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Entry for 1861 - everyone showing as born in Dundee apart from Jemima:
Henry Fergason 40, Detective Officer
Jemima Fergason 38 b. Liff & Berrvie, Forfarshire
Henry Fergason 18 gasfitter
George Fergason 11
Helen Fergason 8
Alexander Fergason 5
Cathrine Fergason 1
Address: 3 Arthur Street, Dundee
Monica
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Haven't done any of the looking up on this but thought I would say what a wonderful forum this is - all that info within 24 hours of posting the original query! Finding that 1851 census was inspired, Monica.
Well done chaps & chapesses.
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Isles - your great!
Monica - your an angel!
::)
Thanks again.
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hi all :)
i wonder if this is them in 1841 ?
hawkhill dundee angus
john mcmilne 42 weaver born ireland
hendry ferguson 20 starcher b. angus
jammima hendry 20 b. angus
janet ferguson 1 b. angus
ev
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No, the connection is spurious and Jemima (or Jamina) was a Kennedy and her husband was Henry Ferguson always stated as a Police Officer from 1838 until his death in 1892.
Thanks for the help - much appreciated.
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Unfortunately there is no image available in Scotlandspeople relating to Jean Thomson Ferguson
However there is an index entry on Scotland's People for Jean Thomson Ferguson. So if you have clicked on that entry and no image has come up, get in touch with SP and they will sort it out.
This looks to be a badly transcribed 1851 census entry from Ancestry (I haven't checked whether it shows on FreeCen)
It won't be; none of the 1851 census of Angus is on FreeCen so far.
No, the connection is spurious and Jemima (or Jamina) was a Kennedy and her husband was Henry Ferguson always stated as a Police Officer from 1838 until his death in 1892.
I would not dismiss the possibility. Both Henry and Jemima are very unusual names, and it would be stretching the long are of coincidence a bit far to have two Henry Fergusons, both married to a Jemima, of similar ages and living in the same parish, with a daughter Janet or Jessie (those names are totally interchangeable in Scotland) of the same age. The information was presumably supplied by the head of household, John McMilne, and either he or the enumerator could have got things wrong.
I have the information concerning her birth under the name Jamena and her father Robert and mother Elizabeth Peterkin, but I was not sure of the accuracy.
What does her death certificate say her parents' names were? Are they not the same?
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Hi Forfarian,
Jemima Ferguson's death certificate show that her father was Robert Kennedy and mother Elizabeth Peterkin.
It also states that she was married to Henry Ferguson Police Office at tha data of her death 11th June 1869.
EV's post:
1841 census
john mcmilne 42 weaver born ireland
hendry ferguson 20 starcher b. angus it is possible that this is the correct Henry Ferguson
jammima hendry 20 b. angus unlikely that this is the Jemima Ferguson unless the enumerator got the surname wrong.
janet ferguson 1 b. angus
The 1851 census makes mention of Jess Ferguson (12) and this may be the Janet you speak of.
I will do some further investigation - many thanks
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Jemima Ferguson's death certificate show that her father was Robert Kennedy and mother Elizabeth Peterkin.
So if her birth has the same parents, there's no uncertainty :)
1841 census
john mcmilne 42 weaver born ireland
jammima hendry 20 b. angus unlikely that this is the Jemima Ferguson unless the enumerator got the surname wrong.
Imagine saying Kennedy in a thick Irish accent. It could sound like Hendry to a Dundonian ear.
janet ferguson 1 b. angus
The 1851 census makes mention of Jess Ferguson (12) and this may be the Janet you speak of.
I'd be astonished if it isn't the same child.
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Greetings
The spelling of both forenames and surname for Jemima and Henry Ferguson have been difficult in many census making then hard to find. Henry did not enter the Police Force until 1848 and was I believe a starcher at his marriage in 1838. His father and brother were both starchers in the 1841.
Waiwera
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Hi Waiwera
Welcome to RootsChat :)
So, Ev's entry for the 1841 census was the correct entry for the family then. It's hard enough finding people when they are correctly recorded....never mind when names are not as you would expect!
Monica
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Hi Waiwera,
Thank you for your info - it seems to complicate matters if the names are spelled incorrectly. I will try again to review the Ferguson/Kennedy connection in Dundee and see what is revealed.
Thanks
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Sounds like Waiwera and you might be researching the same line :) Maybe a good idea to compare notes and see if you can both make headway....
Monica
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More than willing to help as I have collected a lot of certificates and some information on Henry and Jemima Ferguson and family. How can I arrange exchanging this information.
Waiwera
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Now that you have posted twice on the main forum, you should be able to use the Private Message (PM) service that works very much like a private email service within RootsChat. If you click on the small green scroll under DNAsearcher name on the l/h side, it will take you through to the PM service which is the preferred way of exchangeing personal emails etc. :)
Monica
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Thank you. Will follow your suggestion re PM
Learning something new each time.
Waiwera
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I keep thinking that I've seen it all in terms of census entries, then this example pops up!
It's important to understand the process; the enumerator hands out the schedule, then collects it, and transcribes the info into the enumeration book.
#1 chance for an error to creep in.
If the householder had been unable to complete the schedule, the enumerator may have done it for them. Not necessarily a question of illiteracy, BTW, more often a question of unfamiliarity with a form such as the census household schedule.
Accents frequently caused problems if (a) the head of household wasn't originally from Scotland, - I've seen some real "beauties" deriving from a broad Ulster accent, and (b) many enumerators were incomers to the area, it being more often that not the case that enumerators who were ministers or schoolteachers were from outwith the area so, in their early days at least not always fully familiar with local accents.
#2 chance for an error to creep in.
And then there's the oft quoted results of data inputters in India, Sri Lanka, The Phillippines, Taiwan, etc., who have been given less than perfect training in terms of handwriting styles of the era, Scottish given names, surnames, place names, and occupations. No names, no pack drill, but one large website excels above all others !!
These data inputters don't have the luxury of preexisting knowledge of the families involved, nor the time to do some lateral searching to clarify a difficult entry.
#3 chance for an error to creep in.
To be strictly fair to modern name transcribers/data inputters there are some peculiar hands out there and some less than ideal images, in particular the 1851 census in Scotland which is in the process of being re-digitised.
And further, there are some highly accurate transcriptions out there, particularly FreeCen and FHSs, most of which use a true double entry approach. [True double entry involves two transcribers independently inputting the data. A third person then compares the inputs and resolves any differences. If there are still problems, then the situation is referred further to top experts.]
The solution is deceptively simple, for the Scottish records, at least on ScotlandsPeople.
This is to invest some time in learning how to use wildcards.
However much you believe that you know all the possible variant surname spellings, I can guarantee you that the situations above will produce variants that you haven't previously come across; never mind general variations in spelling.
OK, it can sometimes take quite some time playing about with various wildcard searches but my general experience is that there will most often be a result ! Remember that ScotlandsPeople allows the use of an initial wildcard, as individual styles of initial capital letters could be quite ideosyncratic !
I've long since given up assuming that a certain surname can only have spelling diffences in 'obvious' parts of the surname, - this situation being a quite brilliant example.
And don't just concentrate on surnames at the risk of ignoring given names. For example, here, was the given name 'Henry' or 'Hendry' or various possible renderings of these ?
ibi
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That's a belt and braces on it Ibi, thanks for that.
Happy Christmas to you :)
Monica
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That's a belt and braces on it Ibi, thanks for that.
Happy Christmas to you :)
Monica
Hi Monica
I just get frustrated when I see situations like this where the use of wildcards could have solved things a lot earlier.
Incidentally, I use two methods of generating name variants.
Firstly the 2 LDS 1881 Scottish CDs, but you have to know how to use wildcards in the first place ;), and secondly, the NameX system.
See http://www.origins.net/namex/aboutnamex.html for the background to the system, and http://www.originsnetwork.com/namex/NameXSearch.aspx for a way to use NameX to research your name of interest.
Orraverybest for Christmas :)
ibi
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10 years later and I see this chat. Do you have any more information regards the Ferguson family. I'm descended from Henry and Jemina through their son Henry.
Neil
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Hi Neil,
I have a fair amount of info on Henry and Jemima which also includes his second wife Jane Ogilvie.
Not a lot about Henry Jnr (my connection is through their daughter Janet/Jessie) but most of the info is for Henry Snr from his early days as a Police Officer to his death in 1892.
Let me know what you have an I may be able to fill in a few gaps
Graham
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Hi Graham,
I've only just started on the Henry Ferguson side, so was pleasantly surprised to see people had done some research on the family.
Are you descended via his first or second wife? I can't find Janet in the 1851 census. I know that Jemima was dead before HF's marriage to Christina Lawson/Lowson in 1869.
I am very curious about Henry being a police officer. Are there archives with information? Most of my Dundee/Perth ancestors were weavers, so it's nice to find another profession.
If you have anything you can share, you can email me at (*)
(the F in the initials being the last remnant of the Ferguson name)
Neil
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Neil,
I'm descended from Henry & Jemima and their daughter Jessie - Henry's second marriage to Jane Ogilvy was childless as they were too old when they married in 1869.
According to the Police museum, he was at that time, the longest serving officer in Dundee up to his retiral shortly before his death in 1892. I have a photo of him in his later years in uniform. Jemima presents a tragic figure with the death of her mother when she was quite young and the death of several of her children, culminating in her suicide in 1869 (I suspect his marriage to Jane Ogilvy in the same year was due to necessity as Henry still had a few young children to look after!)
The marriage of Christina Lawson in 1869 to Henry Ferguson Jnr (Henry & Jemima's son) when Henry Jnr was 23 is coincidental, as it is the same year his mother died and his father married Jane Ogilvie.
Makes interesting reading - see attached image.
Regards
Graham
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That's a great help! Which website or tool do you use for your genealogy?
You couldn't scan the photo of HF in uniform? I'd love to see it. Due to my parents moving around, I have so few photos of anyone in my family.
Is the police museum a good place to get information? I don't live in Britain any more, so it's a bit far to visit. Do you know if they are helpful in providing information?
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That's a great help! Which website or tool do you use for your genealogy?
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0