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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: win291130 on Sunday 13 December 09 09:00 GMT (UK)

Title: marriage certificate.
Post by: win291130 on Sunday 13 December 09 09:00 GMT (UK)
My great grandmother Gwenllian Jenkins immigrated to South Australia in 1863,and married ebenezer Jones in 1865. Checking one of her childrens birth  certificate it stated she married on the 1st April  1865.Why I need the certificate is to find out where she was born in Wales UK, all I know is that she came from Swansea.
Stella

Moderator comment: more information on the background here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,423671.0.html
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 13 December 09 11:49 GMT (UK)
That is interesting no marriage showing for this couple

will look further

JEnn
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 13 December 09 11:52 GMT (UK)
I have had a good look and cannot see a marriage recorded for this couple.

on  the 1/1/4/1865 there were a number of marriages but not one  that remotely looks like your couple


2 childrens births though


John JONES born 13/8/1865 at Kapunda  Book 36 page898
father Ebenezer Jones mother Gwen Jenkins


Mary Anne Jones born 8/9/1868 aty Kapunda  B ook 67 page 562
father Ebenezer Jones mother Gwin Jenkins 




Jenn

Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: cando on Sunday 13 December 09 11:54 GMT (UK)
I cannot find a marriage for Gwenllian/Winifred JENKINS to a Ebenezer JONES in South Australia.

Information on certificates in South Australia - marriage certificate would not give you her place of birth.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.0

Births in South Australia
JONES John
13 Aug 1865
Father Ebenezer JONES   Mother Gwen JENKINS
At Kapunda  Kap 36/898
 
JONES Mary Anne
8 Sep 1868
Father Ebenezer JONES  Mother Gwin JENKINS
At Kapunda   Kap 67/562

Birth in Victoria
JONES Winifred
Father Ebenezer Mother Gwenllian JENKINS
At Sebastopol  1871   Reg#19636

From the Biographical Index of South Australian 1836-1885  Not always 100% accurate and there are errors and ommisions.

It would appear that neither of these Ebenezer's married in SA.

JONES Ebenezer born c1846 GLA WLS died after 1876. He arrived in 1864 on the Art Union   Occupation Miner, Plasterer.  Lived Adelaide.

JONES Ebenezer born c1836 GLA WLS and died after 1880  He arrived in 1860 Ramillies  He was a miner and labourer and lived at North Adelaide.   Religion - SOF.


Cando

Amended to add name.


Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 13 December 09 11:58 GMT (UK)
Sorry Cando I was amending my post when you posted the same info.


A copy of  the daughter's birth in Victoria may very well give Gwen's place of birth.

Jenn
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: aniph on Sunday 13 December 09 12:02 GMT (UK)
no marriage for them in Victoria that I can see.........thinking they might have married later...
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: cando on Sunday 13 December 09 12:20 GMT (UK)
It seems she used both the names Gwenllian and Winifred as these are the names of the children you mentioned in the linked thread.

Births
JONES Eleazer
Father Ebenezer  Mother Winifred JENKINS
At Sebastopol  1872  Reg#26323
 
JONES William
Father Ebenezer  Mother Winifred JENKINS
At Egerton  1876  Reg#4194

JONES Ebenezer
Father Ebenezer  Mother Winifred JENKINS
At Egerton  1879  Reg#4294


Death
JONES Winifred
Father Jenkins  Mother Ann UNKNOWN
68 years at Frankston  1912  Reg#1730

On the shipping record she is listed as Gwenllean JENKINS.  As she is an assisted passenger there may be more information about her at SA Archives or SLSA.  She was the only JENKINS on the Mary Shepherd

GRG 35/48/1 Official Assisted Passage Passenger Lists 1845 – 1886


Cando


Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: win291130 on Tuesday 15 December 09 07:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenn and Cando,
It dosen ,t look as if I am going to have any luck find info. on Gwenllian,s background.
I will get the birth of  Winifred she died not long after birth.
Is it possible when they wrote up all the information from the old documents, that the marriage could have been overlooked,I suppose the place they keep old information would  still have the original documentation.
(also they may never have married)
I thought it might have stated where they lived in Wales.
Thank you both very much for all your help.
regards Estella :'(
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: PrueM on Tuesday 15 December 09 07:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella,

If you can find her immigration record, it will probably - as Cando stated - contain more information about her origins, because she was an assisted immigrant.  If the records are anything like those for NSW, you will get the names of her parents, her place of residence in Wales, etc.

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: judb on Tuesday 15 December 09 11:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

Do you have the death certificate of Winifred/Gwenllian?  You can download Victorian certificates straight onto your computer.  It could have her place of birth (if the informant knew it), but still may say only Wales or Swansea   :-\

Judith

Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: win291130 on Wednesday 16 December 09 05:32 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for the information, yes I have the death certificate but it only states she came from Swansea Wales.
If I can get info on her immigration record that most likeky would help.
but back then they might not have kept so good records, but I will try,I will have to send to England for that ?
thank you all
Estella.
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 16 December 09 05:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella  :)

Cando has provided the info you need to obtain a copy of the passenger list:


On the shipping record she is listed as Gwenllean JENKINS.  As she is an assisted passenger there may be more information about her at SA Archives or SLSA.  She was the only JENKINS on the Mary Shepherd

GRG 35/48/1 Official Assisted Passage Passenger Lists 1845 – 1886

Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: judb on Wednesday 16 December 09 06:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

On FreeBMD I see a number of Gwenllian Jenkins born in Neath at about the time of your Gwen.  Neath is not far from Swansea.  On the census there is also a Gwenlliam Williams living in Llansamlet which is now a suburb of Swansea.  Unfortunately there is not enough info to see whether any of them fit.

The South Australian State Library apparently has a free research service so asking them to look up the shipping record that Cando found for you would seem the next thing to do.

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=387

Please let us know how you get on!

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: win291130 on Monday 28 December 09 03:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Prue.
I have taken your advise and contacted S.A Library, and now waiting on an answer.
I will let you know if I have any luck.
Estella
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 28 December 09 03:37 GMT (UK)
Does death certificate give her parent's names, so you can try to track the family group down in the Welsh censuses?

forget that - just read the other post ...  :-[
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: win291130 on Wednesday 30 December 09 09:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Prue and all who have helped me,
had a reply from S.A. Library, Info was that Gwenllian left from Plymouth on the 10th jan 1863, arrived in Port Adelaide 19th April 1863.She was selected by Jeffrey Watkins Agent ,paid 10 shillings to come, she was a domestic servant.Reg No was D3186 Glamorgan.
Could be Gwenllian born between Oct and Dec. Breconshire Mid Glam. Dist. Merthur Rydfil Volume 26 Page377.
As she travelled on her own they think she may have come out to make a new life for herself,and she may never have known her father .
Many thanks for all your help
Estella
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 30 December 09 09:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella  :)

Glad that you have found out at least something about your lady...what a pity there was no more info on the shipping register, but you know at least that she was from Glamorgan.

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: judb on Wednesday 30 December 09 12:45 GMT (UK)
Oh Estella, how nice to get a little bit more.   :)

If you give the exact date of her death I'd be happy to look up newspapers of the time to see if there are any notices.

I'm not sure I would necessarily agree with the SALS people.  The info you have suggests she was born in Swansea and there are births listed on Free BMD which were closer to Swansea than Merthyr is.

The 1861 Wales census shows 3 possibles for your Gwen - and there are probably others.

Gwenllian Jenkins  b abt 1845 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales; Servant living at Aberdare, Glamorgan 

Gwenllian Jenkins b abt 1845 Cowbridge, Glamorgan, Wales; Servant living at Coity, Glamorgan 

Gwenllian Jenkins b abt 1846 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales; Servant  at Brecon St Mary, Breconshire


The 1851 is less helpful with no clear matches although, as I said before, there is the girl born and living in Llansamlet which is now a suburb of Swansea but is in the Neath registration district. The mother's name is given as Rachel though :(  Free BMD shows one Neath registration in 1841 and two in 1842 for Gwenllian JENKINS. 

Sadly I think this may be the brick wall for Gwen/Winifred

Judith
Title: Re: marriage certificate.
Post by: Arranroots on Sunday 17 January 10 08:59 GMT (UK)
Hi guys

For some reason I haven't been getting notifications of this thread!

I wondered about the agent - Jeffrey WATKINS - who selected Gwenllian as suitable for emigration to Oz.  Does anyone know much about this process?  Would he have lived locally to the people he selected, or did such people travel around and spend time in Oz too?

The reason I ask is that there seems to be only one Jeffrey W in Wales in 1861 (i.e. just prior to Gwen's journey) - and he lives in Breconshire!

RG9/4130/8/11

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)