RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: roymck on Wednesday 09 December 09 19:16 GMT (UK)
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Thanks to good work on this site i have found a relative i did not know existed . But like most things its left me with more questions .
If your birth in 1907 was registered with one surname , and in 1911 census you are being brought up with another family and taken their surname and you married with that surname and your death was with that surname then is it possible they didnt know through their life what their real name was .
There was no adoption in 1907 what about name change by deedpol , when did that come in .
Would a person have to produce a birth cert in the 30,s to get married ?.
Thanks Roy
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You can call yourself what you like, as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes. The name on the marriage certificate is the name they were known by at the time. You do not have to produce a birth certificate to get married. No proof of age is required.
Stan
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Under English common law, a person may take a new surname, perfectly legally, without drawing up any formal record, provided that such action is not undertaken for the purpose of fraud of avoidance of obligation, etc. So for people over over 16 years of age in England there is only one way to legally change your name and that is by using a new name. Deed Poll has never been required It always was, and still is, perfectly legal just to change one's name and notify all interested parties, provided there is no intent to defraud or other criminal intent . Deed Poll was usually used by those who considered possible inheritance difficulties in the future, so was more often used by the wealthier members of society. A notification in the local paper was sometimes used, and for ever person who went to the trouble and expense of deed poll, there were numerous others who simply adopted a new name without formality. From 1914, all deeds poll enrolled in the Supreme Court had first to be advertised in the London Gazette
See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=176
Stan
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Just to add as a matter of interest.
I was married in Southern Ireland and I was not only asked to produce my birth cert. but my ex-husbands aswell!!
I can't remember how we overcame this dilema ..... suffice to say, they had to settle for mine alone!!
Kind regards
Alyson
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Another way, these days for sure, of 'officially' changing ones name is to pop along to the local court (JP or Magistrate? I can't remember off hand which) and simply fill out a short declaration paper.
They glance at it. Agree that ye not up to anything and sign it off. Costs a few quid. Lot cheaper and simpler than Deed Poll.
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is it possible they didnt know through their life what their real name was
Yes! - I beleive that is exactly what happened to my mothers sister, she was 'adopted' out in the early 1920's when there was no formal adoption process.
Her siblings tried several times over the years to find her but there has never been any trace of her.
And no, you did not need to produce a birth certificate in order to get married.
Suey
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I think this happened in my family, my fathers father had a name and date of birth on his war records and marriage certiificate, but that name and date of birth cannot be found in the birth registry even around give or take ten years and I think he took a name on that was not his for some reason or other!!
If they don't have to produce their Birth Certificate at marriage then this will never be found out.
I have been left with a Brick Wall as far as finding out who he was .. parents etc., can't even find the ones he put on marriage certificate.
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Ok , thanks for the info , its good to get a different point of view on the subject. Roy
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I had a person with my (fairly rare) surname who was murdered a few years ago. As the surname is sufficiently uncommon for all its bearers to have a common ancestry and the fact that his widow lived in the town where I was raised, I started to investigate. After some considerable difficulty I found that the victim who had criminal associations had assumed the new surname. I believe that this was to avoid the consequences (hitmen) of his previous criminalty and ask would the change be legal in these circumstances?
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It is worth checking the London Gazette. Quite a lot of notices of change of name were published there. I believe that anyone serving in the forces, certainly at officer level, was required to post such a notice of a surname change.
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
David
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Another way, these days for sure, of 'officially' changing ones name is to pop along to the local court (JP or Magistrate? I can't remember off hand which) and simply fill out a short declaration paper.
They glance at it. Agree that ye not up to anything and sign it off. Costs a few quid. Lot cheaper and simpler than Deed Poll.
I think this happened in my family, my fathers father had a name and date of birth on his war records and marriage certiificate, but that name and date of birth cannot be found in the birth registry even around give or take ten years and I think he took a name on that was not his for some reason or other!!
If they don't have to produce their Birth Certificate at marriage then this will never be found out.
I have been left with a Brick Wall as far as finding out who he was .. parents etc., can't even find the ones he put on marriage certificate.
I had this with my Nanas father.
All I had was a 'statutory declaration' of when & where he was born - and his fathers name & Occupation from his marriage cert.
Only problem was ..................... no one of his name was born where & when he said he was born!
So I searched and came up with a few more in the right area with similar names - only non of them were him.
By sheer fluke I was talking to someone in the chat room here & I mentioned 'the elusive Henry' and my lack of info on him.
And she found him!
He was born 8 years before he said he was, a town away from wehre he said he was - and he was born Illigitimate, but his middle name gave his father away.
By tracking him thru cencus's I could see WHY he had given incorrect info - his mum re-married twice, and in each Cencus he had a different surname, by the time he was using his borth surname again he was an adult - and living in a different county.
I genuinly believe now he didnt know where or when he was born and that his father wasnt married to his mother when he was born, and when he needed to have a legal document saying when & where he was born he gave the info he BELIEVED to be true.
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Whilst involved in railway personnel matters I have been involved in at least three cases of where an employee changed his surname, they each happened on taking up employment when it was discovered the surname on the birth certificate was different to that under which he had applied for a job.
From memory I think the form ran something like. "To whom it may concern, I Joe Bloggs renounce the surname Bloggs, and henceforth will be known as John Smith." It was of course signed, though whether the signature was witnessed by a solicitor of JP etc. I can't remember.
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Checking my own documents, I now see a Deed Poll is one way of officially changing ones name.
Another is at the local county Petty Sessional Division court.
Both are pretty similar. Loads of verbiage about renouncing one name and calling on All to know and call ye by another name, which ye declare ye'll henceforth call yeself. Pretty straightforward.
Personally, I'd suggest the court route. Faster. Simpler. Lot cheaper ;)
I have these documents scanned and stored on my tree site. I also have the originals stored with my Birth Certificate. I'm trying not to leave anyone a hard time, when I keel over! ;D