RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: baltibluebird on Wednesday 09 December 09 10:35 GMT (UK)
-
Hello
I know it is a long shot but I am wondering if someone may be able to help me (I have had great success in the past :))
I am looking for a marriage in Lydd between a William McKenzie (or possibly spelt differently ie Kensie, Kensey) and a Jane (I do not know the maiden name and don't know how to find this out?).
I am particularly interested in Jane from Lydd.
Jane Kensey is referred to in the 1841 census HO107/466/11 resident in Fordwich and she is born in County abt 1789. On the 1851 census Jane Kenzie is HO107/1623/393/ 7 again resident in Fordwich but born in Lydd abt 1789. I believe she may have died in the Canterbury district in 1858 (from free bmd).
I know that the surname of McKenzie is interchanged with Kensey, Kenzie, Mc Kencey, Kensie from the censuses.
I really do appreciate this is a shot in the dark, but I just wondered whether someone may be able to point me in the right direction please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
Lydd marriages are included in the Mid Kent Marriage Index http://www.woodchurchancestry.org.uk/midkentmarriages/
There are some baptisms for Lydd on the IGI covering this period with batch number C033619 - it might be useful to use the batch number to find any Janes being baptised to see if you can find a marriage using any possible surnames for these given that Kenzie (sic) is so interchangeable http://www.familysearch.org
Casalguidi :)
-
:) casalguidi
Thanks for your assistance!
I have searched the mid kent marriages but can't find anything at the moment; I had previously searched this site just for McKenzie but have tried all the known alternatives.
Using the batch no. you gave me, I have found the following
Jane Wood baptised 06 JUN 1788 Lydd, Kent, England
Mother: Mary LEEDS
You will remember from a previous post that I had asked about Sophia Leeds McKenzie
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,409658.msg2769636.html#msg2769636
which you very kindly helped me with.
Now, interestingly and I think it is perfectly feasible that Jane Wood's mother is Mary Leeds as Jane Wood/McKenzie has baptised her daughter Sophia LEEDS McKenzie- I have wondered where the middle name Leeds came from!
What do you think?
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
There is a baptism for a Michael Impett Leeds s/Mary b b 27/5 1795 Lydd
and then Michael Leeds s/ Mary illeg 16/6/1799
I hope this helps a little in your search
Lis
-
Hi Lis
Many thanks for those 2 births; will look into these further and see if I can find anything further, perhaps in the censuses.
Merry Christmas :)
-
Jane LEEDS m William KENSEY 4 Oct 1812 Fordwich
http://www.familysearch.org (select Record Search Pilot)
Casalguidi :)
-
Hi casalguidi
Thanks for that.
What does the marriage entry for the same couple on 18th Oct 1812 Fordwich mean do you think please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
ADDED: Interesting that she married using the surname Leeds and not Woods
-
I'm not sure why the differing dates. If you look at the records again you will see a film number against each record - you can search for the film via the LDS cataloge http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp and it will tell you what it is ie. Bishops Transcripts/Parish Records - perhaps one is the date of banns and one the marriage ???
Casalguidi :)
-
Hi
Can I run through a thought I have had please?
I have found a marriage using the link you gave me between
William LEEDS
Mary WALKER
29 Sept 1793
Lydd, Kent
I just wondered whether Mary Walker was in fact a widow marrying William Leeds, her maiden name being Woods. The area is so small, although I don't know the size of it in the late 1790s. I havent been successful in finding a marriage between a Mr ____ Walker and a Mary Wood.
There is also a William Leeds age 8 being buried in 1805 which may or may not be part of the same family?
Just wondered what you think please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
This is my direct line. Mary Walker was the daughter of James Walker. She married William Leeds and had one son, who died at the age of 8 and was buried with his grandparents, John and Mary Leeds. His father William was buried with them when he died in 1856. I am not sure what happened to Mary, there are some burials for various Mary Leeds, but at least 2 of them were a sister and aunt of William. William had at least 8 illegitimate children with Elizabeth George from c. 1802 to 1824. He made a will and divided his estate between them. This couple started the Leeds-George family of Lydd. Some descendants used the double name, some Leeds, some George ..... just to confuse us! I have extensive records of this family.
-
Sorry, misleading you there, Mary Walker was probably daughter of Thomas not James - should have checked my database before replying. Still the same links to Wm Leeds though.
.
-
Hi Marysearch
Thank you so much for the information about Mary Walker from Lydd.
I would be really interested to know more :)
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
Sorry, I don't have any more than stated in my previous message re Mary Walker (m 29 Sep 1793 Wm. Leeds, both "of Lydd" according to register) except the notes on her son. "1st, male, born to Mrs. Wm. Leeds delivered 9th Oct 1796" source Wm Waylett's midwife records. baptism for Wm Jnr. November 1796 at All Saints Lydd but death and burial "in 9th year" at All Saints, Lydd + Duncan Leland's MIs for Lydd - (Kent Archaelogy website) tie in with the birth record. My connection is via one of the 8 half siblings of that child, fathered between1802-1824 by her husband William Leeds b 1774 - d 1856.
-
Ok thank you for all your information.
-
Can I run through a thought I have had please?
I have found a marriage using the link you gave me between
William LEEDS
Mary WALKER
29 Sept 1793
Lydd, Kent
I just wondered whether Mary Walker was in fact a widow marrying William Leeds, her maiden name being Woods. The area is so small, although I don't know the size of it in the late 1790s. I havent been successful in finding a marriage between a Mr ____ Walker and a Mary Wood.
There is also a William Leeds age 8 being buried in 1805 which may or may not be part of the same family?
Just wondered what you think please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
Sorry but I can't see, at first glance, that this is immediately relevant.
Jane Wood LEEDS was baptised in 1788 the dau of Mary LEEDS. Mary LEEDS may have been single or a widow at this time. WOOD may well have been the surname of Jane's father as it was quite common for illegitimate children to be given the surname of their father as a second forename and WOOD was quite a common name in that area.
There is a Mary LEEDS having the following children baptised in Lydd but whether they are all the same Mary LEEDS might need sorting out ...........
Elizabeth 1783
Jane Wood 1788
Michael Impet 1795
Michael 1799
Catherine 1802
Or am I missing something ???
Can you follow any of these children forward ie. census or BMD etc. to see if there are any clues to their ancestry/relationship to Jane Wood LEEDS?
Casalguidi :)
-
The Mary Leeds who had at least 3 of the children listed (I don't know about the Wood child which I have never noted before) was unmarried. There is a bastardy settlement for the Michael Impett children. There is a later bastardy settlement for Mary Leeds against R. Brackenbury "late of Lydd" for child Catherine. It is likely that this Mary was the daughter of John Leeds and his second wife Mary Baker (this couple is my direct line via their son William). The other Mary Leeds mentioned in my reply of 1st August to the other message was married. There are 3 burials for women named Mary Leeds at Lydd. 3 Nov 1841, aged 69, and 29 Dec 1830 aged 68. The earlier Nov 1781 burial was the 2nd wife of John Leeds above. There was an extensive Wood family in Lydd during that period, but I have not yet found any connection with the Leeds-George family until 1850's.
It is worth noting that there seem to be errors in the Lydd transcripts now on IGI. For example, some of Elizabeth George's children 1801 to 1824 are listed with the incorrect surname of Leeds, whereas in the registers, they were listed with the middle name of Leeds, last name George. (They appear to use either surname, or both, in subsequent records and census returns throughout 19th century and beyond. )
-
Hi again Mary
I am sorry but I seem to have somehow missed your last msg on this matter.
I have been looking through the msgs you have made with regard to this family and, like you say, they are a complicated family.
I discovered today that Jane Wood Leeds maybe had a child, named Thomas Bass bapt 25 Dec 1809, Lydd which I have found on the new Family search site which has been updated and appears to contain alot more info on Lydd that the original IGI :)
I am grateful to you for clearing up the query I had with regard to William Leeds and Mary Walker.
I would be really interested and pleased to hear from you further regarding this family.
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
I had a Thomas Bass Leeds born 1809, but had not noted details of his mother. He was illegitimate, no father recorded but it was likely to have been Thomas Bass who lived in Lydd at that time. There are a few Leeds women having illegitimate children at around that time (late 18th and early 19th centuries). Various fathers were Pope, Brackenbury, Impett, Blacklocks, Bass, Wood.
As I think I mentioned previously, some of the IGI information is incorrectly transcribed as there are instances where the original parish registers give Leeds as child's middle name, not their last name.
Mary
-
Hi Mary
Thanks for the info; very helpful.
Do you by any chance have details of a possible father for Jane Wood Leeds, mother Mary Leeds as she is my direct 4th great grandmother please?
I have managed to tie in most of the fathers' names to the various illegitimate children born to the Leeds girls, except for finding their Christian names. Can you please offer any assistance in this regard please?
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
Unfortunately, I have not been able to link your Jane Wood Leeds for certain with the main Leeds family as there were a few Mary Leeds in Lydd, single and married, during that period of time so it's difficult to identify her accurately.
In case this helps someone, I have recently discovered what happened to the surviving child Michael Leeds (2) born in 1799 in Lydd to one of the Mary Leeds, mentioned in previous mails. He married Elizabeth Chamberlain of Hythe and died young at Hythe leaving small children who were probably raised by their Chamberlain maternal grandparents as they are with them in 1841 and 1851 census for Hythe. One of these orphans was yet another Michael, who emigrated to Australia in 1854, was involved in gold prospecting, owned a mine, sold it after he lost a lot of money in a fire. He married twice, had 10 children. He has descendants in Australia and New Zealand.
-
Jane Wood Leeds married William Kensey 4 October 1812, Fordwich.
In the 1841 census, her birth year is abt 1789, born Kent (of course, the 1841 is not helpful with the actual place)
In the 1851 census her birth year is abt 1789, Lydd.
One of her children born to her husband William Kensey was, as far as I can tell, Sophia LEEDS Kensey born 1821 Fordwich. I had always wondered where the middle name of Leeds came from and when casalguidi kindly pointed out Jane Wood Leeds, mother Mary Leeds bapt 1788, Lydd (ref above), it rightly or wrongly fell into place where the name Leeds came from.
Therefore, since the Leeds family at Lydd seem to have had a number of illegitimate children by various fathers, named their children with the middle name of perhaps the father, I feel it may be safe to assume that Jane Wood Leeds bapt 1789 (the only Jane Wood Leeds on the IGI) is the illegitimate daughter of a Mr ?? Wood and Mary Leeds (only Mary Leeds and no father as this is confirmed by the IGI) but which Mary Leeds, that is the question.
Perhaps someone who has access to the Lydd Parish Registers would be kind enough to see how many Mary Leeds were born around 1760/1770 in Lydd, Kent as this may be of assistance in clarifying this problem.
I see from Ancestry that there is a tree with Jane Wood Leeds, with Thomas Buss added today as a new son and wonder if this is as a result of this posting. It would be great if someone who has access to the Lydd PRs could look at the baptism record for Thomas Buss in 1809 to see what was recorded as no father is on the IGI.
Thanks in anticipation ...
-
"Perhaps someone who has access to the Lydd Parish Registers would be kind enough to see how many Mary Leeds were born around 1760/1770 in Lydd, Kent as this may be of assistance in clarifying this problem."
The Leeds name did not arrive in Lydd (from High Halden) until mid 18th century, when John Leeds who had settled in nearby Brookland married (1) Elizabeth Kite in Lydd 1855 - they were married 12 years before her "firstborn" child Elizabeth is recorded in 1867 that child died 1771, her mother died 1770. John L married (2) Mary Baker in Lydd 1772. They had a daughter Mary (I haven't found a baptism for her but many of the Lydd entries in 18th century are missing or illegible) he also had daughter-in-law Mary of around the same age who was married to son William and she had their only legitimate son William who died age 8, however, William Snr. started having his 8 children by Elizabeth George within about 4 years so either of those Marys could be having the illegitimate children. Any other Mary Leeds at that time was not born in Lydd, although later some were born in early 1800s, but there were linked families in other villages, for example Marden, who had the odd Mary. On IGI there is an Elizabeth born 1783 to a Mary Leeds, but this doesn't fit potential age of John Leeds' daughter Mary unless she was pregnant v.v. young and I have no other information on this one. Is she the same or yet another? There is also an entry for a son of John and wife's name given as ANN but this must be a transcription error because it was during the 9 year period of John's second marriage to Mary Baker with children being born on dates either side.
My money is on an unmarried Mary of Lydd having a series of liaisons, but I have not been able to find records to prove it without any doubt. There are bastardy settlements against Brackenbury and Impett. Although John Leeds witnessed and signed the document, this may not have been in his capacity as a grandfather of the illegitimate child as he was also an Overseer of the Poor and a Juror. Unfortunately he did not leave a will when he died in 1799 which could have helped , unlike his son William who proved his paternity of his 8 Leeds-George children baptised at Lydd.
There are Lydd burials for Marys, one is John's 2nd wife in 1781, one is probably for the Mary counted at William's home in 1841 who died later that year and for whom age at death matches, although no relationship is given so it is not clear whether this was his legal wife or his sister. Elizabeth George, his partner of 20 odd years died in 1824 soon after the birth and baptism of her child Mary, I haven't found any further record for this infant.
-
Unfortunately, I have not been able to link your Jane Wood Leeds for certain with the main Leeds family as there were a few Mary Leeds in Lydd, single and married, during that period of time so it's difficult to identify her accurately.
In case this helps someone, I have recently discovered what happened to the surviving child Michael Leeds (2) born in 1799 in Lydd to one of the Mary Leeds, mentioned in previous mails. He married Elizabeth Chamberlain of Hythe and died young at Hythe leaving small children who were probably raised by their Chamberlain maternal grandparents as they are with them in 1841 and 1851 census for Hythe. One of these orphans was yet another Michael, who emigrated to Australia in 1854, was involved in gold prospecting, owned a mine, sold it after he lost a lot of money in a fire. He married twice, had 10 children. He has descendants in Australia and New Zealand.
This is a very very late reply, but this is my direct line. I wasn't aware of the fire that Michael leeds lost money in - What I've been told is that Micheal Leed's first Wife, who is my ancestor(Jane Eliza Jones) passed away in a heatwave in Australia, and thats why he remarried later.
I was wondering, where did you get the information on Michael Leeds in Australia? It would be very helpful to know! :)
-
Oldmacs, this is a late posting from your 2016 post. I note that you are a direct descendant of Jane Eliza Jones - I am a direct descendant too. She is my 2nd great grandmother, who married Michael Leeds who migrated to Australia (where I resided) in 1854. My direct line just down from my mother and father is huge (Leeds) - this month we celebrate the birth of the 42nd great grandchild of my Mum and Dad, ( We are nearing 100 descendants just in the line. Anyway I would welcome some information on Eliza Jane Jones who was often know as Jane Eliza or just Jane. Her tombstone read Eliza Jane in 1869 and I have details of her cause of death. I have her born in 1828 in Whittonstall, Kent or is it 9 March 1827 in Shrewsbury, St Julian's Anglican, Shropshire? Her name in the births and christenings 1538-1975 for the birth of her son, Charles Richard Leeds was Eliza Jane. Can you shred any light on her birth? Eliza migrated with Michael Leeds and arrived in Australia on 23 October, 1854. After Eliza died, Michael married Emily Margaret Baugh Jones in 1871. I have extensive information on this line and would love to share. I look forward to hearing from you. Regards Gen Campbell (nee Leeds)