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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: ssnowball on Tuesday 08 December 09 21:39 GMT (UK)
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I've hit a small brick wall in my family history research.
Mary Snowball was the third child of George and Mary Snowball, born in 1820 at Harlow Hill, near Ovingham, Northumberland. She was christened on 3rd October 1820 at the Wesleyan Chapel in Hexham.
In 1841, the Census for England shows a 21 year old Mary Snowball living at Marlborough Street, Westgate, in Newcastle-upon-Tyne with other family members. At this point in time, Mary Snowball lived with her mother, Mary (her father having died in 1840), her brothers James, John, William and Harrison and her younger sister, Jane. Mary is recorded as a dressmaker.
In 1855, according to Whelan's Gateshead & District Trade Directory, she was living at 42 Melbourne Street, Gateshead, working as a provisions dealer. (Her oldest brother, James, was recorded as a grocer on the 1841 census.)
However, I can find no trace of Mary beyond the 1841 Census. She may have married, however the only Mary Snowball that I can find, who married in the area, is the daughter of a Thomas Snowball. She married Richard Ord on 27th April 1843 in Hexham, therefore is unconnected to my tree.
Any help in tracking her down would be much appreciated.
Steve
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How can you be sure that the Mary Snowball named in the Directory is the one you are searching for?
There is a Mary Snowball born 1796 in Allendale in Melbourn Street Gateshead in 1851 - occupation grocer - who is more likely the one in the Directory.
HO 107 / 2402 / 47 / 28
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
I was always prepared for the Directory reference being the 'red herring'. You're right that the other Mary is the most probable candidate for this reference.
This fact, at least now determines that it is possible that my Mary Snowball either died or married between the 1841 and 1851 census, rather than living in Gateshead up to 1855, when the directory was published.
Many thanks for this contribution.
Steve
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possible deaths
(quite a few)
Deaths Mar 1841
SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 230
Deaths Sep 1841
SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 182
Deaths Jun 1842
SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 194
Deaths Dec 1842
SNOWBALL Mary S. Shields 24 125
Deaths Dec 1845
SNOWBALL Mary Jane Hull 22 271
Deaths Mar 1847
Snowball Mary Gateshead 24 133
Deaths Dec 1847
Snowball Mary Morpeth 25 250
Deaths Dec 1849
Snowball Mary Easingwold 24 293
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Hi Toni
Many thanks for the contribution and time.
So far, I have limited my search on your suggested death dates to the area around Newcastle/ Gateshead because Mary's immediate family were living in the area and there is no plausible reason (other than a marriage) to suggest why she would leave (although I'm sure it is possible).
Of those suggestions you have kindly provided, I have already looked at a few but had been rather 'thrown' by the 1855 directory reference. Back on track now, with some useful gaps to fill.
Deaths Mar 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 230 (1841 Census taken on 6th June 1841 so this date will be too early)
Deaths Sep 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 182
Deaths Jun 1842 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 194 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 55, widow of John Snowball, farmer)
Deaths Dec 1842 SNOWBALL Mary S. Shields 24 125
Deaths Dec 1845 SNOWBALL Mary Jane Hull 22 271 (Unlikely as christened Mary, not Mary Jane)
Deaths Mar 1847 Snowball Mary Gateshead 24 133 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 12,daughter of John Snowball, joiner)
Deaths Dec 1847 Snowball Mary Morpeth 25 250
Deaths Dec 1849 Snowball Mary Easingwold 24 293
Regards
Steve
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Deaths Mar 1847 Snowball Mary Gateshead 24 133 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 12,daughter of John Snowball, joiner)
Steve
Ooh thank you, that looks like she's one of mine, they'd moved to Swalwell from Haydon Bridge. Sorry to butt in, can I ask which John Snowball it is in your avatar?
Barbara
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Hi angelfish
The John Snowball, as my avatar, is my great great grandfather, born in Harlow Hill near Ovingham in 1822 and the son of George Snowball (1793-1840). He died in Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex in 1901. He was a builder by trade and went on to have 9 children; one born in Gateshead, three in the USA (when the family briefly left England to avoid a bankruptcy proceeding at Newcastle's Court of Bankruptcy in 1850!) and the others in London, where he eventually lived.
The Mary Snowball that you might be connected to was a wrongly ordered death certificate. She died in Whickham in the registration district of Gateshead, on 12 May 1847 aged 12 years. Reason for death given as Pulmonary Consumption (or Tuberculosis). Jane Snowball (presumably her mother) is recorded present at her death. I'm happy to send the certificate if useful.
Hope it helps!
Steve
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Hi Steven, mine are the Corbridge/Haydon Bridge lot. My 3x great grandfather was John Snowball, joiner b1792. In 1841 the family were in Whickham district and the age for Mary would fit with Johns daughter Mary, Jane was her sister, their mother had died and John had remarried to a Mary Burn. I wasn't 100% sure of this until recently when I finally found them in 1841
I wonder if there's a connection between the Ovingham/Corbridge Snowballs, they seem to be in the same line of business, my Johns son John was a builder in Hexham (unless I've confused the two families :-\)
Thank you, I would really appreciate a scan of the certificate if that's possible, I'll PM you.
Barbara
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Hi all
After the arrival of another certificate not related to my missing ancestor, the latest update as follows in red:
Deaths Mar 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 230 (1841 Census taken on 6th June 1841 so this date will be too early. Mary Snowball in my tree appears on the 1841 Census)
Deaths Sep 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 182 (This is Mary Snowball, spinster, aged 65, died of cancer
Deaths Jun 1842 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 194 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 55, widow of John Snowball, farmer)
Deaths Dec 1842 SNOWBALL Mary S. Shields 24 125
Deaths Dec 1845 SNOWBALL Mary Jane Hull 22 271 (Unlikely as christened Mary, not Mary Jane)
Deaths Mar 1847 Snowball Mary Gateshead 24 133 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 12,daughter of John Snowball, joiner)
Deaths Dec 1847 Snowball Mary Morpeth 25 250
Deaths Dec 1849 Snowball Mary Easingwold 24 293
Three more strikes to finally narrow the gap on the death date!
If anyone wants a scan or the copy of these superfluous death certificates drop me a PM and I'll post out to you.
Steve :(
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sorry to hear that she dies not belong to you
hopefully the next one will
(is hopefully the right word seeing as it is to do with a detah?)
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After the arrival of yet another certificate today and still not related to my missing ancestor, I'm beginning to wonder!!
Update as follows in red:
Deaths Mar 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 230 (1841 Census taken on 6th June 1841 so this date will be too early. Mary Snowball in my tree appears on the 1841 Census)
Deaths Sep 1841 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 182 (This is Mary Snowball, spinster, aged 65, died of cancer
Deaths Jun 1842 SNOWBALL Mary Hexham 25 194 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 55, widow of John Snowball, farmer)
Deaths Dec 1842 SNOWBALL Mary S. Shields 24 125 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 66 years, wife of William Snowball, Blacksmith. Died of enteritis.
Deaths Sept 1842 SNOWBALL Mary St. Geo. Han. Sq. 1 22 (Not sure about this London death but I guess it has to be pursued)
Deaths Dec 1845 SNOWBALL Mary Jane Hull 22 271 (Unlikely as christened Mary, not Mary Jane)
Deaths Mar 1847 SNOWBALL Mary Gateshead 24 133 (This is Mary Snowball, aged 12,daughter of John Snowball, joiner)
Deaths Dec 1847 SNOWBALL Mary Morpeth 25 250
Deaths Dec 1849 Snowball Mary Easingwold 24 293 (Not sure about this one either, which is probably a North Yorkshire branch of the Snowballs, unrelated to my side of the tree.)
Given my Mary Snowball's relation with her immediate family, I would have thought that any death would have been closely associated to the area in which they lived, namely Gateshead or Newcastle but this doesn't appear to be the case. ???
As before, if anyone would like a scan or the copy of these death certificates drop me a PM and I'll gladly post out to you.
Steve
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you're getting quite a collection of certificates there Steve, do we think she could have married or moved out of the area by 1851?
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Do try giving possible details for your Mary to avoid any more wrong certificates. You could quote her probable age for instance. The local office are often more helpful about that sort of thing than the GRO who charge £3 to check details. Would any of her family have left wills? Sometimes they mention spinster daughters/sisters or married ones or grandchildren which may help.
Andrea
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The 1841 census has a Mary Snowball in the St George Hanover Square dist so I think you can cross that one off too or at least move it down the list. I would agree with you about the Yorkshire Snowballs too. Also in 1841 there are two Mary's in East Yorks but neither in Hull (one Bridlington dist the other Beverley)
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Hi Toni and Andrea and Angelfish
Thanks for your responses, which were coming in thick and fast, as I typed!
Well, you're right that the bundle of certificates getting ever fatter and the bank balance ever slimmer. as a result! I had given GRO the possible dates but they have forwarded the certificates nontheless. The local office is my next stop, so thanks for the tip.
I must say that at one time, marriage appeared to be solution but it has to be between the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I can only find reference to Mary Snowball's marriage in June 1843 (Hexham 25/291) which is the marriage to Richard Ord, already mentioned. This is the only marriage of a Mary Snowball I can find within the area where she lived and between those dates. There are some other Mary's but are mostly from Yorkshire or are for a Mary Ann Snowball.
The Mary Snowball who married Richard Ord (a tailor) was given on the 1851 Census as living in Hexham and
aged 30, so the birth date would be about right but place of birth given as Whearmley. Where is that? I've Googled and can't find this place, so assume it's a transcription error recorded 'as heard', so there may have been some confusion over spelling. Then again, it might be known locally.
I haven't yet checked on wills, Andrea, as I was following the most obvious evidence source (or so I thought!) in the first instance, namely the certificates. My Mary's brothers were successful businessmen, especially older brother James, who owned the Whickham colliery and firebick works and went on to become an Alderman in Gateshead. Her younger brother William owned the Snowball and Son store in Gateshaed, the first department store and often referred to as the 'Harrod's of the North'! They should provide a source of wills, given their own large families and financial status.
Thanks for all the help, so far
Steve
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Hi Toni and Andrea and Angelfish
Thanks for your responses, which were coming in thick and fast, as I typed!
Well, you're right that the bundle of certificates is getting ever fatter and the bank balance ever slimmer. as a result! I had given GRO the possible dates but they have forwarded the certificates nontheless. The local office is my next stop, so thanks for the tip.
I must say that at one time, marriage appeared to be a solution but it has to be between the 1841 and 1851 censuses. I can only find reference to Mary Snowball's marriage in June 1843 (Hexham 25/291) which is the marriage to Richard Ord, already mentioned. This is the only marriage of a Mary Snowball I can find within the area where she lived and between those dates. There are some other Mary's but are mostly from Yorkshire or are for a Mary Ann Snowball.
The Mary Snowball who married Richard Ord (a tailor) was given on the 1851 Census as living in Hexham and
aged 30, so the birth date would be about right but place of birth given as Whearmley. Where is that? I've Googled and can't find this place, so assume it's a transcription error recorded 'as heard', so there may have been some confusion over spelling. Then again, it might be known locally.
I haven't yet checked on wills, Andrea, as I was following the most obvious evidence source (or so I thought!) in the first instance, namely the certificates. My Mary's brothers were successful businessmen, especially older brother James, who owned the Whickham colliery and firebick works and went on to become an Alderman in Gateshead. Her younger brother William owned the Snowball and Son store in Gateshead, the first department store and often referred to as the 'Harrod's of the North'! They should provide a source of wills, given their own large families and financial status.
Thanks for all the help, so far
Steve
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place of birth given as Whearmley. Where is that? I've Googled and can't find this place, so assume it's a transcription error recorded 'as heard', so there may have been some confusion over spelling. Then again, it might be known locally.
Far better than just Googling the place name - try Genuki Northumbria, and the place-name index http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Gazetteer/NBL_W.html which doesn't give Whearmley, but does give Wharmley, which might well be the place referred to in the 1851 census.
Jennifer
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Thanks Jennifer
I had tried GENUKI but had gone to the towns and parishes page at http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Parishes.html#W, where both Whearmley and Wharmley don't appear.
Your link was, by far, much better.
Wharmley is not Mary's place of birth, however, so now at least it's totally eliminated the 'marriage to Richard Ord' theory.
Steve
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Steve you would have to ask though who gave the information to the enumarator and did they know her p.o.b?
is there another Mary that could be the one married to Richard Ord?
is Whearmley any where near where she was born?
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There's a marriage for a Mary Ann Snowball to a Thomas Davison SeptQ1842 Hexham 25 243. In 1851 there's a Thomas & Mary Davison (Mary b 1820 Ovingham) living in Shincliffe HO107 piece 2391 folio 318 page 34. Thomas is a colliery viewer. Might be worth an e-mail to the local Register Office to eliminate it if nothing else.
Sorry, should add Thomas is one of the men listed but the above couple seem a possible match.
*edited Not the couple in 1851. Found a newspaper announcement of the marriage of Thomas Davison colliery viewer to a Mary Ann Fairbridge in South Shields
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The Mary Snowball who married Richard Ord (a tailor) was given on the 1851 Census as living in Hexham and
aged 30, so the birth date would be about right but place of birth given as Whearmley. Where is that? I've Googled and can't find this place, so assume it's a transcription error recorded 'as heard', so there may have been some confusion over spelling. Then again, it might be known locally.
This Mary's place of birth in the 1861 census is given as Warden, which is here http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=391500&Y=566500&A=Y&Z=120
Pan a little left and you'll see Wharmley, just to the north of the A69 (and a stone's throw from where I live ;D)
Your Mary was born at Harlow Hill, Ovingham which is some 12 miles to the east.
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Wharmley is not Mary's place of birth, however, so now at least it's totally eliminated the 'marriage to Richard Ord' theory.
The final nail in the coffin of this one is that her father, Thomas Snowball, is with the family in 1861 ;D
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Hi Jen
Thanks for the final nail in that coffin! Useful to have some verification, to avoid another potential red herring! (and further certficate costs!!)
Steve
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Hi Steve -- I'm married to the South African branch of the SNOWBALL family-- descendants of James SNOWBALL (Whickham Colliery & Firebricks Works). I do have some info but there are many gaps. Would you be able to help me?
Thanks Eileen
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Hi Eileen
Good to hear from you. I would be very happy to help you in your research. I have lots of information on James Snowball and the descendants of his family and the Snowballs generally. Probably best to use the PM board and I can then give you email details etc and send over any photos, documents etc. as attachments.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Eileen you cannot use the Private Message System until you have 3 posts on the main boards so 2 to go :)
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With a chance visit to the Findmypast site last night, I discovered in the Parish Records Collection 1538- 2005 Marriages section a marriage of Mary Snowball to William Gray on 18 February 1837 in Ovingham.
As the Mary Snowball I'm trying to get a fix on was born at Harlow Hill, just outside of Ovingham and was born in 1820, the record 'tallied' with a possible marriage of Mary Snowball at the age of 17 years, at Ovingham's St. Mary the Virgin Parish Church, (although I felt I had already covered any possible marriage in my earlier quests!).
I checked with the Ovingham'church transcripts on GENUKI and found this marriage as between a Mary Swalwell and William Gray, not Mary Snowball. Clearly a discrepancy, so I emailed the findmypast team. They are unable to check these records, as the data is being provided by a third party, which in this instance is the Northumberland & Durham Family History Society, who have transcribed the information that is contained within the Findmypast parish registers for this area and subsequently I have been advised to contact them directly.
I was wondering if there anyone reading this post who is able to check this information for me or has access to the 'correct' data? Once again, any help gratefully received.
Steve
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You could try the Durham Bishops Transcripts which are online here http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=waypoint;s=waypointsOnly;c=1309819;w=0
and seem to contain the Ovingham Registers.
You will have to trawl page by page, they are not searchable.
Jennifer
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You will find the marriage you seek on the above site, Northumberland / Ovingham. Enter 543 in the box marked 'image' and press the return key.
I will leave you to judge what the bride's surname is ;)
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Hi Jen
Thanks for this - a very useful site and certainly one I'll be visiting again.
However, the Mary Snowball I was hoping for is in fact Mary Swalwell. :( Very difficult to read but clearer in the section for the signing of the register by bride and groom. Mary Swalwell and William Gray were the couple, witnessed by Thomas Swalwell and Jane Surtees.
Oh well, back to the drawing board!
Many thanks once again.
Steve
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Hi Steve
There is a marriage for a Mary Snowball to Ridley Rewcastle in Warden in 1837 from the George Bell collection via GENUKI.
Gary
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Hi Gary
Thanks for this lead.
I had a look at the Warden marriage registers from the site recommended earlier today by Jennifer
(http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=waypoint;s=waypointsOnly;c=1309819;w=0)
The entry for the Ridley Rewcastle/ Mary Snowball marriage should be on Image 170.
I know the handwriting is often faint or hard to decipher but there doesn't appear to be a Ridley Rewcastle /Mary Snowball marriage here for 1837. This also applies to the entries for:
17 Dec? 1836 Robert Charlton = Margery Stokoe
4 Feb 1837 Ridley Rewcastle = Mary Snowball
18 Feb 1837 John Rowland = Catherine Johnson
18 Mar 1837 John Blacklock = Jane Weir
:o
This list of four 'missing' marriages are all taken from the Bell transcriptions of Marriages from the Registers of Warden (1813-1837). However, on the Family Search site (showing the actual Warden registers) these are all missing or so faint, they are invisible! Entries before and after this small batch are clearly evident.
Is this my incompetence or am I correct?
The findmypast site (referred to earlier) verifies your Genuki findings for Warden for 4th February 1837 for a Rewcastle/ Snowball marriage, so someone must have seen evidence in the register!
Steve
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The Charlton - Stokoe marriage is on image 169. The date given on the transcript is 17th September 1836.
Sadly, however, there do seem to be some pages missing. The 1836 burials also appear to be incomplete.
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In 1841 a Mary Rewcastle together with Ann, 5, Elizabeth, 3, and Bridget, 1, are with Cuthbert and Mary Snowball & family at Corbridge.
HO 107 / 838 / Book 4/ Folio 45 / Page 3.
In 1851 Ridley Rewcastle, widower, and children Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Bridget and Joseph are in Elvet, Durham.
HO 107 / 2390 / Folio 286 / Page 1
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The Mary Snowball Ridley Rewcastle marriage is in the Warden/Newbrough collection @ image 156.
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Hi Gary and Jennifer
Of course, I must be going ever so slightly mad, as my Mary Snowball is still in situ with her family on the 1841 Census, living at Westgate, Newcastle upon Tyne! :-[ Doh!
So, why did I get waylaid by a possible marriage in 1837? Who knows but I bet I'm not the only one who's got too carried away for their own good.
Now, back to some serious investigation after that little diversion. Still, it gave me a great site (thanks Jen!) for the Durham Bishops Transcripts which has kept me busy on other aspects of my family history.
However, still no sign of Mary beyond the 1841 Census. Death and marriages reveal nothing and no evidence in wills of siblings either.
Thanks for the help so far
Steve
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Of course, I must be going ever so slightly mad, as my Mary Snowball is still in situ with her family on the 1841 Census, living at Westgate, Newcastle upon Tyne! :-[ Doh!
As you stated in your original posting. Serves us right for not re-reading the thread thoroughly, I suppose >:(