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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: win291130 on Monday 07 December 09 00:50 GMT (UK)

Title: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Monday 07 December 09 00:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Loljay,
My Greatgrand mother Gwenllian Jenkins immigrated from Wales to Australia in 1863,
I would like to obtain her birth certificate if possible.
On her death certificate all it states is that she came from Swansea and her mother,s name was Ann But no father,s name.
A family member thinks she was born in Llandore.
Hope you maybe able to help
Sincerely    Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Monday 07 December 09 13:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

Do you have a date of birth - even estimated, as Jenkins is a common name in Wales?

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Monday 07 December 09 21:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Arronroots,
Thank you for your quick reply, on her death certificate it stated that she was 68 years, she died in 1912,so she would have to be born about 1844.
She arrived in South Australia 1863 on the "Mary Shepherd"ship.
Sincerly.
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Monday 07 December 09 22:30 GMT (UK)
There's only a birth registration for 1840 in West Glamorgan - unless she was registered with a different surname.

No sign of a Gwen* with a mother Ann in 1851 and there's a servant in Breconshire in 1861 but no way of telling whether that's your girl: she says born in Swansea though.

Who does she appear to be travelling with to Australia?

Is she still unmarried in 1863 and what does she call her children later on?

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Tuesday 08 December 09 03:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Arronroots,
Gwenllian I think travelled alone, on the shippinglist  it stated she was a servant, although I will go back and try to find the paper work again.
She was unmarried when she arrived in South Australia.but married Ebenezer Jones about a year later ,he also came out from England but earlier.
She named her children John,Mary ann,Winifred,(she was known as Winifred here),Eleazer,Ebenezer and William.
Many thanks again,
Estella     
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Tuesday 08 December 09 09:08 GMT (UK)
I will have another look later but meanwhile , what does her marriage certificate say about her parents?  Does she give an alternative maiden name or a middle name that might help to distinguish her?

Sorry to keep asking questions but the census returns don't give a perfect match, so I'm trying to narrow it down!

The names of her children are helpful, she might have other relations with names like Eleazer and Ebenezer and they suggest a non-conformist background to me.

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Wednesday 09 December 09 02:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Arranroots,
Thank you once again for the trouble you are taking.Checked South Australia for her wedding but could not find one,I sent for one of her children,s birth certificate , this child being born in Victoria and it had more info. it stated she was married on the 1st April 1865, in SA.
I got the birth certificate thinking it may say the town she was born in ,but hard to decipher looked like Tataly Ford, I could try to send a copy to you if you think it may help.
Sincerely
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Wednesday 09 December 09 07:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

So that's Gwenllian who's born in Tataly Ford?

I think it might be a good idea to post for her marriage on the Australia board, if you haven't already done so.

I am off to have another look for her in Wales - if you do post again in Oz, make sure you say that you've already asked here please, to save duplication (link to this thread by cutting and pasting the URL if you know how, or let me know when you've posted and I'll do it for you)

A  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Friday 11 December 09 09:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Arranroots.
As I am not the best with computer will you do the posting for me.
I was looking in the "Ancestrial File " and there is a David Jenkins Born 1788 Llangfelach Glam Wales Died 1853 Landore Parents John Jenkin.Anne Catherine William-Parents .
Wife Catherine John 1793.D. 1867. John Davies, Mary John parents all buried in the Llangyfelach cemetery. woulf it be possible for these be the parents of Ann Jenkins.(or is that wishful thinking)
Thanking you,
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Friday 11 December 09 13:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

They might be the parents  or they might not!!  Hard to tell without further evidence!

I can't do the posting for you - you just need to do what you did here only on the Australian Requests board - but I can link this request to a new one once you've made it.

I really think that might be the best way forward for now.

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Sunday 13 December 09 09:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Arronroots,
I have just put the message on the board asking for a marriage certificate, her ein Australia.
Thanks again for your trouble.
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Sunday 13 December 09 09:09 GMT (UK)
So you have!  :D

It is here, for anyone who wants to keep track:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,424660.0.html

Will await developments!

Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Wednesday 30 December 09 08:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Arronroots.
I messaged the South Australian Library where they have a department that look up enquiries about immigrants.
Gwenllian Jenkins left from Plymouth on 10th Jan 1863 on the Mary Shepherd arrived in Port Adelaide 19th April 1863, domestic servant and paid 10 shillings was selected by agent Jeffrey watkins reg.no of Gwenllian was D3186 glamorgan,could be Gwenllin born between Oct and dec 1843 Breconshire Mid Glam Dist.Merthur Rydfil. Volume 26 Page 377.
They seem to think as she travelled alone,it was to try for a new start in life and that her father could be unknown.
 Regards   Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Wednesday 30 December 09 09:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Estella

Progress!  That sounds good!

It might be worth taking a risk on that birth certificate at this stage then.  Be aware that the registration district is Merthyr Tydfil (spelling correction).  When you have the cert you can follow that girl forward and hopefully she'll disappear at the right time!

If she lives in Swansea for a while that would be a bonus, as Merthyr is a little way away from the city.

I'll try to have another look later but a bit busy here today!

 :)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 13 January 10 13:52 GMT (UK)
Arranroots

I'm chasing Jenkins - amongst others - in the Glam area.
There's a previous thread by "jamielee" on the subject of this same Gwenllian Jenkins that drew a blank. This has a bit more info.
I've checked the 1851 Census for a Gwenllian born 1841-1845 in Glamorgan. 9 Gwennllians delivered but none with a mother named Ann. There is one "born 1843, Ystrad, Brecknockshire, parents John and Mary". All are on "Parish Relief". I note Gwenllian named 2 of her children John and Mary. 

There's another Gwenllian in "Llansamlet" which is a stone's throw from "Landore" in Swansea.

I'm puzzling what "Tatayl ford" might be, Bit more digging needed    
   
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Wednesday 13 January 10 13:58 GMT (UK)
Hello there - thanks for your thoughts.

The query isn't mine - I'm just trying to help.  Ideally, we're waiting for the OP to get back to us with details of some certificates ...

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 13 January 10 14:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Arranroots,
Thank you once again for the trouble you are taking.Checked South Australia for her wedding but could not find one,I sent for one of her children,s birth certificate , this child being born in Victoria and it had more info. it stated she was married on the 1st April 1865, in SA.
I got the birth certificate thinking it may say the town she was born in ,but hard to decipher looked like Tataly Ford, I could try to send a copy to you if you think it may help.
Sincerely
Estella
win291130,
It's so difficult to read these old certs but does it look like "Ystradfodwg" - which is near Merthyr Tydfil?
 

Regards
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Sunday 17 January 10 05:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Arronroots,
Thank you again I am just about giving up hope on finding anything on Gwenllian,s birth.
I was thinking that whoever filled  in the details ,mayhave  misunderstood the place name and wrote it as it sounded to her, this has happened to other documents I have got.
Is there such a place as tataly Ford?.
Perhaps the one you mentioned at Landore may be the one.
Here,s hoping your patience lasts for me.
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Sunday 17 January 10 08:36 GMT (UK)
Hi again

I think the suggestion of Ystrad is a good one - maybe if you have a scanner you can post a small part of the relevant document for us to see?

I don't lack patience - but I wonder if we can make meaningful progress without buying a certificate - are you going to do that?

 ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Sunday 17 January 10 08:53 GMT (UK)
Forget that - I just had another look at the second thread you posted.  You have added the relevant details here, so I have only myself to blame for not reading it carefully enough BUT ...

I had a thought (beginner's luck!) and I wondered how many Jeffrey WATKINS there were in Wales, who might have acted as agent to "select" Gwenllian.  Answer = one!!

In 1861 at least, the only one is a draper and grocer born and living in Breconshire. (Glynaman? Llandilofawr according to the census sheet).  There's none under alternative spellings, so this evidence seems compelling.

I also hadn't "got" your mention of Gwenllian being known as Winifred when she was in Oz but the other thread makes this plain.

Having another look to see if there's anything to be gleaned that the Aussie searchers missed - doubt it though!

A  ;)
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 17 January 10 13:00 GMT (UK)
....was selected by agent Jeffrey watkins reg.no of Gwenllian was D3186 glamorgan,could be Gwenllin born between Oct and dec 1843 Breconshire Mid Glam Dist.Merthur Rydfil. Volume 26 Page 377.
They seem to think as she travelled alone,it was to try for a new start in life and that her father could be unknown.
 Regards   Estella
win291130
Sorry for maybe a naive question but who provided the info about Dec 1843 and volume 26 page 377?
There is a GRO ref for Gwenllian Jenkins Dec 1843 Merthyr Tydfil 26 377.     
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Saturday 19 June 10 02:48 BST (UK)
Hi Arranroots.
Sorry I have taken so long to reply,but I have been out of commission ,due to family problems, thank you for still helping me in my search I will try for a birth certificate for Gwenllian the one that  gives Breconshire ,Mid Glamorgan,&Merthyr Rydfil.and hope for the best.
I,m sure if our rellies could have looked into the future they would have left us more info.or told us to mind our own business.
Regards Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: Arranroots on Saturday 19 June 10 09:12 BST (UK)
Lol Estella!

Glad to see you're back - let us know what you discover.

 :D
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Tuesday 22 June 10 03:03 BST (UK)
Hi hanes Teulu,Sorry, I have been out of action for a while.You asked where I got the info from on Gwenllian Jenkins, I got in touch with the South Australian Library and they assisted me.
The info comes from www.ancestry.com and also their shipping documents.
Thank you very much for you interest with most of my ancestors I,m having a bit of problem, but it keeps me occupied.
Regards,
Estella
Title: Re: birth certificate Gwellian Jenkins
Post by: win291130 on Sunday 27 June 10 11:00 BST (UK)
Hi Arran Roots.
Had a break through,went into  Melbourne to our Genealogy Centre, a gentleman was there that came from Wales ,took one look at Tatayl Ford,and
said it was "Ystalyfera"so it was my lucky day.
 1851 Census. Jenkins,John  Head  Married 41 b 1810 parish relief Gwynfe
Jenkins,Mary Wife Married 53 B 1798. Gwynfe Glamorganshire Parish relief

Jenkins,Gwenllian Daughter 8 B 1843 Parish relief. Ystrad Brecknockshire.

I followed the Census ,her father must have died just before gwenllian came to Australia.Her mother,s name was Mary Ann so that is where the Ann came from.a very happy Estella.Thank you.