RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: Ringoroses on Thursday 03 December 09 15:39 GMT (UK)
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I guess I'm never going to get anywhere with this lot unless I take the plunge, but to be honest, researching the Irish side of my family scares the begiblets outta me :-\
Anyway, I know this is a longshot, but I'm trying to trace beyond my 3x great grandmother, Mary, who was born a Monaghan somewhere in Galway c1810. Seemingly she married a man called D'Arcy c1835 and had two daughters with him, Mary (probably born Galway c1837) and Anne (probably born Galway, c1839).
I don't know what happened to her husband (or his name) but, by 1851, she was married to someone else (probably in Ireland as I can find no record of it here), Thomas Berry (a docker/mariner also of Galway), and they were living in Liverpool, England, with her two daughters, and their new baby, Winifred. Presumably they came here due to the famine. They went on to have two more daughers here, Elizabeth and Agnes.
On the 1851 census, a neice of the head of the household (Thomas), Mary Connolly (born about 1833, also from Ireland) was staying with them in Liverpool. This could indicate that Thomas's sister was married to a Conolly...?
I don't really know where to go from here. I know what happened to most of them after they arrive here, but have no clue where in Galway they came from, or who their families were.
Regards,
Ann
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Hi using this website
http://galwaywest.brsgenealogy.com/search.php
I found the following
Thomas Berry Marriage 1849 Clifden (RC)
and also there is
Mary Monaghan Marriage 1849 Clifden (RC)
Bride and groom are indexed separate so there is no guarantee that this is correct marriage could be a coincidence the records are pay per view but might be worth taken the chance.
I know Mary was D'Arcy at the time of second marriage but they have used her maiden name for the marriage record.
Bit of a warning i have no way of known for definite that this will give marriage of Thomas Berry and Mary Monaghan D'Arcy.
Ger
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Ok, thanks for the tip, I'll give it a go. I'm stumbling about in the dark with this one anyway, so even if it turns out not to be them, its a chink of light I've not had so far. And, if it's not them, I've only lost the cost of a certificate.
Best wishes,
Ann
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Finally took the plunge with that one Ger, and you were absolutely right, it is them - so thanks very much for the tip! Very happy indeed! (wish I'd done it sooner now!) ;D
Would really like to find out more, so this is what I have now.
Thomas Berry married Mary Monaghan at the RC church, Clifden, Galway, 15 Jan 1849 - is this the one listed as "the RC church and convent" in various places? Anyone know what its proper name is?
His address is given as Kingstown, none given for her (although it's a transcription, so it could be the same for both).
Witnesses Michael Murry (sp?) and M Heanue (?) - mean anything to anyone?
No parents given for either - is that normal? Or are they likely to appear in the original but not on the transcription from roots ireland?
And can anyone tell me where Kingstown is, I've googled it but the only one I'm seeing is here
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=kingstown+ireland&hl=en&ll=53.439401,-8.34137&spn=0.115752,0.220757&hnear=Kingstown,+County+Galway,+Ireland&gl=uk&sqi=2&t=h&z=12
This seems quite a way from Clifden? Does that make sense or is there another one nearer to Clifden that I'm missing (thinking there may have been a name change somewhere, as in Queenstown/Cobh?)
In addition to Mary's daughters Mary and Anne (Darcy) mentioned above, I've also discovered another child for Mary's first marriage to Stephen D'arcy recently - a Bridget D'arcy (b Galway c1844) who married a man named Michael Grogan in Liverpool in 1861. Can't see births for any of them in the Clifden listings, suggesting they were born elsewhere - possibly a RC church in the Kingstown area? Can't see a death for Stephen Darcy either, suggesting he died elsewhere too.
Other research I've done since I made the first post indicates that Mary and Thomas Berry had connections to a Thomas Ford, also of Clifden, a hat and cap maker who also moved to Liverpool c1850, and married a Mary O'Neil. I don't know what the connection to him is so far, but their lives seemed very intertwined for many years - each were witnesses at various family marriages/christenings etc for many years. Perhaps they were just good friends from the old country, but I'd still like to figure it out.
Hope you followed all that!
Regards
Ann
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His address is given as Kingstown, none given for her (although it's a transcription, so it could be the same for both).
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No parents given for either - is that normal? Or are they likely to appear in the original but not on the transcription from roots ireland?
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And can anyone tell me where Kingstown is, I've googled it but the only one I'm seeing is here..
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There's townland in Omey civil parish (which includes Clifden) named
Kingstown Glebe, with the alternate name of Ballymaconry... I'm searching for it at the moment...
re the details in the record - the details you have are usual for early RC marriage records. i.e. date of marriage, names of the bride & groom, names of witnesses, and sometimes an address.
Shane
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Link to the townland on the historic OSI maps :
Kingstown Glebe / Ballymaconry (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,459541,753166,6,7)
It's located about 7km west of Clifden. The townland is listed on Griffith's and there are two Berry entires included - no Monaghans. A Patrick and Michael Berry are listed and seem to be farming shared land of about 67 acres with several others.
see : Kingstown Glebe Valuation (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=1629925&county=Galway&barony=Ballynahinch&parish=Omey&townland=Kingstown%20glebe%20%28or%20ballynaconry%29)
These returns are dated 1855.
Shane
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Interesting. Patrick and Michael Berry listed, both tennants of Hyacinth D'arcy. Could be another link in the chain.
And that Kingstown Glebe looks far more likely than the other Kingstown at my link, which is miles away.
Thanks Shane. Food for thought.
Ann
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Just spotted the Michael Murr(a)y too.
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Does anyone know anything about Kingstown Glebe/Ballymaconry at all? Its history? Anything about the people who lived there? What sort of houses were there. Aside from the links above, I'm not seeing much about it online. Just streetviewed it and there doesn't seem much left in the way of clues. Would I be right in assuming this is an area affected by the famine and/or the clearances?
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You wouldn't usually find a history for something as small as an individual townland, but you can sometimes locate details on the area. e.g. Samuel Lewis' Topographical Directory of 1837, includes a listing for the civil parish which covers the area, and also mentions Kingstown
see : http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/O/Omey-Ballinahinch-Galway.php
A glebe is the land used to fund the local church and the immediate lessor for all the land in the townland is the Rev. Hyacinth D'arcy. The occupiers for the main property are listed as the Rev. D'arcy in conjunction with a Rev. Alexander R.C. Dallas (trustee) and consist of 'house, offices & land (orphan nursery & model farm)'. Offices is the term used on Griffith's for outhouses, workshops, stables etc.
The other properties listed are much smaller, all less than an acre, and possibly for labourers working the main farm, with their own small area to provide for their own families.
This buildings on the Reverend's property are valued at £10, whereas the other buildings are all valued at either 5 or 10 shillings, so presumably his is quite substantial and the rest have small cottages.
The publication date for this valuation is 31st March 1855, so a number of years after the famine.
You can see the townland on the 1st edition OSI maps, which date from around the mid 1830s. The Glebe house is shown, but the smaller buildings dont seem to be... Kingstown Glebe/Ballymaconry townland (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,459568,753163,6,7)
There are still buildings in the townland about where the Glebe house was, but these are off the main road, so not visible using StreetView.
Shane
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Hi Shane, thanks again.
Yes it's a great little map that - I've been looking at it from your earlier post the other week. I'm just trying to get a feel for the place and try to figure out why my lot might have left when they did (somewhere between Jan 1849 when Thomas and Mary married in Clifden, and May 1850 when their first child was born in Liverpool). Had a little look into Rev D'arcy and his family the other day and it seems the D'arcy's pretty much owned the entire district for decades - the Rev's father was the man who founded Clifden. The Rev inherited it all from him, then lost it all after the famine - sold the lot c1850. So wondering if he may have got rid of all the tenants before selling up to pay his debts. I think the other Reverend was tenant at the property, as Hyacinth D'arcy lived at Clifden Castle - wonder if he had to go too.
Perhaps my lot living on the Revs land explains why Mary's 1st marriage to Stephen Darcy (doubt he's a relation of the Rev) was in the CoI - she was Catholic. I wonder if he or the other Rev actually married them?
Thanks for explaining what a glebe is - I didn't have a clue! And I did wonder if there were other properties hiding in those hills on streetview. Will just have to wait till I can get over there and take a proper look!
Ann
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Hi Ann
I live not too far from Kingstown and Clifden, if you would like any photos etc I would be happy to see what I could find.
There's a little bit about the Churches in Clifden in this link:
http://www.clifdenconnemara.com/ThingstoDo/HistoricalClifden
Cheers Daisy Loo
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That's really kind of you Daisy Loo. Thank you so much. But unfortunately I have so little to go on as I haven't managed to get beyond finding what's above, so I wouldn't know what to look for or where. All I know really is that Mary Monaghan (as she was back then) was married to her first husband Stephen Darcy in the CoI there. But married her second, Thomas Berry, in the Catholic church before coming to England c1849. I haven't managed to find a death record for Stephen (c1847) or any birth records for her, her husbands, her daughters, Bridget, Mary and Anne Darcy, just a record for what looks like a previously unknown son, Patrick (all born in the 1830s and 40's). The only other lead I have is what appears to be a step brother or close relative who also came to England with her from there and was godfather for several of her children grandchildren over here. His name was Thomas Ford. But I have no addresses for any of them beyond 'Kingstown'. If you can get anything from any of that, I'd be absolutely delighted!! Best wishes, Ann
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I'll have a wee look around, and see if there is anything I can come up with. It may take some time though, as I have two small children, and also have just started a college course, but I will get round to doing it :)
Kingstown is tiny, no shops at all, they do have a small National (primary) School there.
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Just took a little time now...and have possibly found a record for a Mary Monaghan marriage to Stephen D'Arcy in Co. Galway. It's in 1827 though. This may give you more information.
http://www.rootsireland.ie/ - if you put in Mary Monaghan and Stephen D'Arcy it comes up as a marriage in Co. Galway in 1827. I am not sure whereabouts in Galway this is though, but it seems too close to be dismissed?
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Hi Daisy Loo. Yes, I'd managed to find that. That's how I finally managed to find out where they're from, I just knew it was Galway before. But if you can think of anything else that may get us further I'd be chuffed! Thanks so much for your help. Hope I can do the same for you one day. Regards
Ann
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I must be missing something here. I thought you said that Thomas Berry was from Kingstown, and that you had got his marriage to Mary.
Where was Stephen D'Arcy from? Do you know his father's name? Just that in your initial post, you had the first marriage down as c.1833..
Sorry if I am totally off track here :)
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Hi. Sorry, Yes I have both marriages from that site - sorry if that wasn't clear.
Perhaps my lot living on the Revs land explains why Mary's 1st marriage to Stephen Darcy (doubt he's a relation of the Rev) was in the CoI - she was Catholic. I wonder if he or the other Rev actually married them?
It was the marriage you mentioned - in the parish/district of CLIFDEN/OMEY/ERRISLANNAN/MORE on 3rd June 1827 in CoI. Mary's address is given as Kingstown, Stephen's isn't listed. That's all the detail if gives unfortunately.
The only other info I have from there is for the birth of a likely child, Patrick Darcy, born in the same parish to parents Stephen and Mary Darcy on 28th Feb 1828. He doesn't appear to have come with Mary and Thomas when they came to England, or if he did, I haven't found him, so I don't know much else about him.
Sorry for any confusion.
Regards Ann
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Hi Ann
I am related to a Patrick Monaghan born in 1826 the son of John Monaghan and Mary Kennealy (Details on church register in Australia at time of marriage in 1856). Patrick was convicted of stealing a pig in 1848 and sent to Australia in 1849 onboard the Havering. Could we have a connection here
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Gosh, I've no idea! I haven't really found much more about them since I last posted here. In one document they're listed as living in Eyrephort, Kingstown if that rings any bells. And I believe Stephen died there, or near there, c1847. Do you have any further details that might help connect them?
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Unfortunately no
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That's a shame. Well I'll certainly keep you in mind should I happen to get back any further at some point. Regards, Ann