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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: chromecrusher on Wednesday 02 December 09 09:09 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find James George Gordon Gammie and his parents.
I have info on his wife's parents.
Alexander Easton m Willemina Heron 20/10/1891 Abbey Parish Arbroath.
Their daughter Francis Janina Easton married JGG Gammie.
JGG Gammie had a brother Louis Gammie and Janina Easton had a brother Alexander Easton and sister Anna Hay Easton.
Francis and JGG emigrated to South Africa around 1900.
Help would be appreciated :)
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The transcript of the 1891 Scotland Census has James George Gammie living with his grandmother:
8 Burn Lane, Inverurie, Aberdeenshire
Mary Stewart Head 60 Formerly farmer's wife bn Inverkeithney, Banffshire
James George Gammie Gson 5 Scholar bn Kimberly, South Africa (Brit Subj)
Bures Middlemas Gammie Gson 4 Scholar bn Kimberly, South Africa (Brit Subj)
The accuracy of the above is reliant on whomever transcribed the record, so to double check (particularly the name of James' brother) you would need to look at the census at Scotlands People.
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Possible for JGG's grandmother on 1881 census:
Patties Burn, Grange, Banffshire
John Stewart H 76 Crofter of 6 acres arable & 6 pasture bn Aberlour, Banff
Mary Gordon Stewart W 50 bn Inverkiethney, Banffshire
Lewis Stewart Son 11 scholar bn Grange, Banffshire
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There is no marriage showing for James and Frances on Scotlands People at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Did they marry in SA?
Will be harder to confirm parents' names for James given he looks to have been born in SA from the entry that Spidermonkey has posted for 1891.
This looks to be Frances at home in the 1901 census with the information you have posted on her family:
Alexander Easton 34, Commercial Traveller (soap), b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Williamina H Easton 32, b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Harriet Low Easton 9, b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Alexander T S Easton 6 b. Monifieth, Forfarshire
Francis J K Easton 4 b. Monifieth, Forfarshire
Nellie Heron 18, sister in law, Envelope Maker, b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Address: 30 Holburn St, St Marchar Aberdeen
Monica
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And 1871:
Pettiesburn, Grange, Banffshire
John Stuart H 66 Crofter of 14 acres 7 of which are arable bn Aberlour, Banff
Mary Stuart W 40 Crofters wife bn Inverkeithny, Banffshire
Lewis Stuart S 1 Farmers son bn Grange, Banffshire
Mary Inglis serv 15 Domestic Servant bn Huntly Aberdeenshire
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Using the free search on Scotlands People, it looks as if John Stewart married Mary Gordon in 1869 in Banffshire, so it looks as if the only child from that marriage was Lewis Stewart bn in 1870.
So how did the Gammie surname come into play? What are the possibilities?
- Daughter of Mary from before the Stewart marriage?
- Daughter of John from before his marriage to Mary?
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Spidermonkey, as you have found on the censuses, the only birth showing to this couple up to 1874ish when the Scottish entries tail off on IGI is that of Lewis on 24 FEB 1870 in Grange, Banff.
Monica
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Spidermonkey, as you have found on the censuses, the only birth showing to this couple up to 1874ish when the Scottish entries tail off on IGI is that of Lewis on 24 FEB 1870 in Grange, Banff.
Monica
Right, so how do we get from the Stewart surname to the Gammie surname? Any children of Lewis would have carried the Stewart surname so it must be a female child of Mary and/or John.
But I am a bear of little brain, so I could be missing the obvious :-\
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Thanks to everyone a lot to digest!
If JGG was born in 1886 that would have made John Stewart 81, and whilst he fathered Lewis a 60 it seems a little extreme to have fathered JGG. Can we find whether Mary remarried a Gammie or whether the child was illegitimate (maybe).or whether "gammie" was a common law husband
It is strange she was still using the Stewart name in 1891.
Mary must have been a strong woman as she came out to SA to take JGG back to UK. Do we know anymore about her Gordon side of family "gordon" has been carried right down to the current generation
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I'd go with Spidermonkey's theory, that Mary Gordon may have had a (illegitimate?) child before her marriage to John Stewart in 1869. You could check the marriage cert on line at Scotlands People to confirm her marital status at the time of her marriage. The cert will also include full details on her parents' names which will help in tracing her family line back.
I can't see a marriage between a Gammie and a Mary Gordon on IGI.
Going solely on the place of birth showing for her on the later censuses, this is the closest entry I can see in 1861:
Mary Gordon, 27, domestic servant b. Inverkeithnie, Banffshire working at the Andrew household in Forgue, Aberdeenshire.
Monica
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I am still trying to unravel the James George Gordon Gammie
(b. 1886)mystery. I can't find a trace of an illegitimate daughter that Mary Gordon may have had before her marriage but we have found out that the Gammie connection comes from JGG being adopted by a Gammie family at the age of 16 to allow him to travel to South Africa. Therefore his name must have been James George Gordon. Mother unkown at this time but Grandmother Mary Stewart b 1831 (nee Gordon) of Banffshire.
Also was Bures Middlemas Gammie who was listed on the 1891 census as another grandson JGG's natural brother or half brother? My head is spinning!!! Emigration certainly messes up the trail. :-\
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I had a couple of spare credits for Scotlands People, so I just looked at the original census return for the 1891 census and I think that Bures is actually Lewis (the enumerator had lovely, if slightly curly writing) but the middlename is definitely Middlemas
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I am still trying to unravel the James George Gordon Gammie
(b. 1886)mystery. I can't find a trace of an illegitimate daughter that Mary Gordon may have had before her marriage but we have found out that the Gammie connection comes from JGG being adopted by a Gammie family at the age of 16 to allow him to travel to South Africa.
But we have him aged 5 with the surname Gammie!
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I'm glad somebody is awake :-[ I have just jumped a generation!!!!
JGG was indeed with his Gran Mary and a brother in the 1891 census. The link I am trying to unravel is the link to Mary through JGG's father. Another James George Gordon Gammie, born around 1866? who took the Gammie name or was adopted by a Gammie family prior to emigrating to South Africa.
Could James George Gordon senior be an illigitimate child of Mary Gordon? We will have to pick up the trail here in SA to find out who he married but if we can find the link to Mary it would be most appreciated
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Thanks Spidermonkey for solving the Bures/ Lewis problem.
James George Gordon Gammie was born closer to 1861. He died in South Africa in 1954 aged approx 93.
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So, the one who died in SA, is the putative father of Lewis Middlemas and James Gordon as seen on the 1891 census :D And we think that he was originally plain old James George Gordon, but to get out to SA he was adopted/sponsored by the Gammie family and took on their surname.
Whilst out in SA, he married (?) and had 2 children, both of whom were born in Kimberley, and then appear on the 1891 census for Scotland.
At some point James (bn 1886ish) goes back out to SA and marries Frances Easton (bn 1897ish)
Gosh ???
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So, the one who died in SA, is the putative father of Lewis Middlemas and James Gordon as seen on the 1891 census :D And we think that he was originally plain old James George Gordon, but to get out to SA he was adopted/sponsored by the Gammie family and took on their surname.
Whilst out in SA, he married (?) and had 2 children, both of whom were born in Kimberley, and then appear on the 1891 census for Scotland.
At some point James (bn 1886ish) goes back out to SA and marries Frances Easton (bn 1897ish)
Gosh ???
Could not have made it clearer myself ::) Do you think he might turn up in a census with Mary for Inverkeithnie. She was in service in 1858 and then married to John Stewart in 1869 with old plain JGG turning up somewhere in between ::)
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Unfortunately, Monica found Mary Gordon on the 1861 census, working as a servant in the Andrew household of Forgue, Aberdeenshire.
Do you have the marriage cert of Frances and James (1886)?
Did JGGG die in and around Kimberley? Is it likely that the family would have still been in the area up to his death?
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Thanks for all your help. We are going to try the SA Archives to see what else we can find.
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Thanks to Spider Monkey and Monica I have found Plain old James George Gordon. b.25/2/1858 Huntly Aberdeenshire. Only mother Mary Gordon on BC
m. Alice Middlemass 10/7/1884 Kimberely. South Africa. d. 5/11/1954 Krugersdorp South Africa. He went from repairing shoes on the streets of Aberdeen to become Mayor of Krugersdorp. And in between he was involved in the gold and diamond rush! His wife Alice died in childbirth in 1887 and he never remarried.
I would now like to find Mary Gordon and her parents, if possible. What are the chances of an illigitimate child being born in her home village? Is Huntly a good starting point
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That is fantastic news!!
I'm off out shortly, but will have a look for Mary Gordon and parents when I get back.
Well done Chromey
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I would now like to find Mary Gordon and her parents, if possible. What are the chances of an illigitimate child being born in her home village? Is Huntly a good starting point
As far as I can remember, Mary was fairly consistent with her Place of Birth throughout the censuses. I believe she was born in Inverkeithney, Banffshire.
Her marriage cert to John Stewart should give us her parents names and possibly her father's profession.
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I was trying to see whether we could find a James Gordon b. Huntly c. 1858 on the censuses. No sign of him under Gordon.....but there is this entry:
Ann Cuthbert Morrison 73 b. Drumblade, Aberdeenshire
Mary C Morrison 38, daughter, Prevates Teacher Of English Seading (as transcribed!) b. Drumblade, Aberdeenshire
Mary I Inglis 5, boarder b. Huntly
James Gammie 3, boarder b. Huntly
Address: Loangerrie, Drumblade, Aberdeenshire
I am going to speculate here ;) There are three children showing in Huntly as born to a Mary Gordon:
Mary Jane and George Gordon - twins born on 5 July 1855 and then the birth of a James Gordon on 25 Feb 1858.
Could the Mary I. Inglis in the above 1861 entry be perhaps a Mary J. Inglis I wonder on the original image. Not uncommon for illegitimate children to be registered at birth under the surname of the mother and then go by the name of the reputed father in later years. Might also explain for James the use of the surname Gammie.
If we do have the right entry for James above, likely he (and perhaps sister?) were looked after whist mother was working?
Just theories though at this stage :D
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::) Looking for James Gammie and Mary Inglis in 1871. James is a servant working by 1871 and a search for Mary Inglis b. Huntly I think takes us back full circle to potentially mother Mary Gordon. The entry for 1871 that we already had for mother Mary Gordon now married to John Stewart shows in the household:
John Stuart 66
Mary Stuart 40
Lewis Stuart 1
Mary Inglis 15, servant b. Huntly
Address: Pettiesburn, Grange Banff
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Chromey, one way for you to be as certain as you can that you have the right birth for James in Huntly is to look at the birth of either Mary Jane or George, the twins, in 1855. 1855 was the first year of official registration in Scotland. For that year only, the entries ran over two pages of the register with a wealth of additional info. For births, it very often includes where parent(s) were born, age, how many children they had etc. Might be worth you looking at the image on line to try to verify.
Monica
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ooooh! I love it when we come full circle!
Good find Monica!
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The John Stewart is my great great Grandfather . I am connected to his first wife rather than Mary Gordon.
Forfarian may be interested in this .
Stewart
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Thanks for the heads-up, Stewart.
My interest is in descendants of William Stewart/Stuart, son of John S and Jane Ann Simpson, so I have not looked into the Mary Gordon connection.