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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Tuesday 01 December 09 22:09 GMT (UK)
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Hi again, Everyone,
Can anyone with local knowledge tell me whether Collins Lane, Cork City, still exists today. In the 1911 Census it was in the Urban District 4, I believe...
Many thanks, keith
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I checked an old map of Cork and Collins Lane used to be located just off Shandon St, off of Fair Lane. I googled the area and Fair Lane is now Fair St and all of the smaller lanes no longer exist.
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Mazzm,
Thanks so much for doing that for me! I wonder when the clearance of those lanes took place...
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
I'm not sure when the clearance took place. There was a slum clearance between 1920 and 1940 so I would assume it took place during those years. Take a look at this website and you may be able to get more information. You will find the maps of Cork there as well. http://www.corkpastandpresent.com/history/historyofcorkcity/early20thcentury/slumclearance/
I have also seen somewhere else that the clearance continued until 1960, not sure how accurate that is.
Mary
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Mary,
Many thanks again for this, and that interesting link. I reckon the slum clearance must have seen the end of Collins Lane and much of the neighbourhood...
keith
NB was interested to see that the Gurranabraher estate was built as a result of this clearance in the 1920's. I imagine those residents displaced would have been rehoused in the new estates...
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Hi Keith,
I would think that most of the people displaced would have been reassigned new corporation houses in the Gurranabraher area. My mother just told me that her grandmother lived on Fair Lane:) She couldn't remember when the area was cleared though, she was born in 1926.
Mary
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Mary,
Thanks again for that...An individual from the family I am looking into was born in Collins Lane in 1928 - I have his birth certificate - but I am not sure whether his younger siblings would have been born there after that date, or whether by then the family home had been demolished and they'd been reassigned somewhere on the newly-built Gurranabraher estate...
regards, keith
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Mary,
Sorry to be so persistent, but I've just received a 1912 wedding certificate for this same family, and the addresses for bride and groom are given as Hillgrove Lane and Walshs (sic) Lane. As both locations are termed as "Lanes", would it be true that both were also swept away in the Cork City clearances that you describe earlier in this thread...?
Very best wishes, keith
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There is currently a Hillgrove lane in Cork City - not certain it's the same one as the 1912 - see google map : Hillgrove Lane, Cork - Google Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Hillgrove+Lane&daddr=Cork,++Ireland&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=51.895139,-8.471146&sspn=0.082415,0.186081&g=Cork,++Ireland&ie=UTF8&z=15)
I dont see anywhere named Walsh's Lane - but there is a location named Walsh's Square (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Walsh%27s+Square,+Cork,+County+Cork,+Ireland&daddr=Cork,++Ireland&geocode=FevtFwMdZZN-_ykRVsRYFpBESDHQQTUJeRYUUg%3BFQnmFwMdyr1-_ylhub6RCJBESDHQxTGXqccACg&hl=en&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=52.020224,-8.296221&sspn=1.31499,2.977295&ie=UTF8&ll=51.899879,-8.481182&spn=0.001288,0.002908&z=18)
Shane
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Shane,
Thanks very much for that, and I would imagine that Hillgrove Lane is the original if it's retained the same name...
I suppose I ought to be starting another thread on here to ask this question, but do you know - or anyone else who might read this - whether the 1911 Irish Census is searchable on line by a known address. Would be good to discover possible details of both the bride and groom's family the year before the wedding, if indeed they were there by then. Both families lived at number 5...
Regards, keith
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you can search for an address using google - e.g. to search for streets named 'Collins Lane' use a search like :
"collins lane" site:http://census.nationalarchives.ie/
Shane
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Shane,
That was a lightning reply! I'll give that link a go, many thanks again,
keith
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Hello Keith,
I'm not sure if it would be correct to assume that all lanes were swept away. I think there are still some lanes in the city center. One that comes to mind is Carey's Lane, of course that might be gone now as well.
I searched the maps but was unable to find Walsh's Lane or Hillgrove Lane but there are a lot of lanes with no names on the map so they could have been there without being named. Shane could be correct with the Hillgrove Lane he identified as it is off Watercourse Road which is all pretty much in the same area.
I checked the census and Walshes Lane and Hillgrove Lane are both in Cork Urban District 4 as well.
I googled Walsh's Lane Cork City and found a pdf document called CP List of Street Traders 1928 and found a woman listed in there who lived at 8 Walsh's Lane and it said her trading area was Old Market Place, Cattle Street & Cattle Market Avenue. The 3 locations are right next to Collins Lane off Shandon Street.
If you click on the following link you will find that Walshes Lane and Old Market Place are listed as one and Hillgrove Lane is listed as Watercourse Road.
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1913citycountyalmanacanddirectoryguys/1913cityindex/#W
I'm not sure if you found the maps in the last link I sent you but if you follow this link it will show you where Collins Lane and the rest of the lanes listed above are.
http://www.corkpastandpresent.com/mapsimages/goadplansofcorkcity/goadplans1915revisions/
Open up the map that says Goad 1915 key plan and zoom in on the top left hand side of the map, find Shandon Street and you'll find them.
Are you saying that both families lived at 5 Collins Lane, 5 Walsh's Lane or 5 Hillgrove Lane?
Walshes lane census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=%22walshes+lane%22&ded=&age=&sex=&submit=Search
Hillgrove Lane census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=%22hillgrove+lane%22&ded=&age=&sex=&submit=Search
Collins Lane census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=Cork&townland=%22collins+lane%22&ded=&age=&sex=&submit=Search
Good luck
Mary
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Mary,
My goodness, how busy you've been on my behalf! And thank you so much for all this wonderful information, bringing the City of Cork of the early part of the 20thC gloriously to life again. I had a family holiday in the area (stayed at a B and B in Blarney) a couple of summers ago. A pity I wasn't on this line of enquiry then, as I could have had a good look around Cork City myself, as well as visiting the archives there.
Anyway, those links you have provided are fascinating, and I have a much better idea now of the geography of the place 100 or so years ago...
Very best wishes, keith
NB Forgot to answer your last question, and yes I did find a couple of family members that I was searching for at 5, Hillgrove Lane, but none of the bride's family at 5, Walsh's Lane...K
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Hi Keith,
I have a book "The Laneways of Medieval Cork" by Gina Johnson.
In this book St. Lawrence's Lane is also referred to as Collins Lane as there was a salt & lime works there originally owned by William Deane(1802) then owned by Deane, Susan & Allen as per Pigot's directory 1824. And following that operated by
Mark Collins & Richard F. Waddy(1840's). This partnership dissolved in 1843 and Collins took over the business. Collins was the father of Jerome Collins, the famous "weather Prophet" the antartic explorer who died in the antartic and is burried in Curraghkippane cemetary in Cork. In 1852 the works were still owned by Deanes but operated by Mark Collins. In 1867 the lime works was owned by Mrs. E. Collins and the Collins name was so well connected to the area that St. Lawrence's lane was then known as Collins Lane. It was located near Christ Church on South Main Street. It was adjacent to Morgans Lane.
It would seem that St. Lawrences was a tiny chapel attached to Christ Church on South Main Street adjacent to South Gate. There is a bridge now called South Gate Bridge and Beamish & Crawford had a large brewery there up to June of this year when it sadly closed.
Have a look at Cork past and present again for South Gate bridge and Christ church lane.
Hope this helps
Mary
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Mary,
That's wonderful, and thank you so much for putting all this colour and background onto this thread for us! I do love to know as much as is possible of the stories surrounding the locations of where our ancestors lived...
Cork City in the 19thC is beginning to come alive with the people who lived, worked and died there. Very many thanks...
Regards, keith
P.S. Sorry to hear about the brewery closing last year, too..
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I will be in the City during the week and will have a look to see if there are any remnants of those lanes.
Recently the Cork City Council placed Brass Place names on the footpaths of the different lanes as they were in the past. Mostly around South Main Street and North Main Street.
If I get anything extra I will be on here again.
Mary
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Mary,
That would be just great...!
keith
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Hi Keith,
The Collins lane I referred to is not your Collins Lane.
My one is St. Lawrence Lane and know locally as Collins Lane - not the official Collins Lane.
I was in Library today and found some info on both Walshs Lane and Hillgrove Lane ( from a book by Gina JOhnson) but nothing on Collins Lane
Walshs Lane
In the 1960's the remaining houses on Walshe's Lane were cleared for construction of the old Blackpool flats, which were in turn demolished in the late 1990's. Walshe's Lane was the northern most four terrace-lined lanes that once led off the east side of Thomas Davis Street. Like the other lanes on the east side Walshe's Lane was residential and by the mid 19th century there were 18 properties on the lane, 11 of which were owned by a Timothy O'Flynn.
There are lots of theories as to who the lane is called after - a Lord Mayor Walsh, A chaplain in North Cathedral , a Thomas Walsh a leather seller in Shandon Street of aWilliam Walsh a clothier from Blarney Street.
Hillgrove Lane( also known as Bulldog Lane)
In 1801 the lane extended to lead from Britain Street ( now Gerald Griffin Street) to Duke Street ( Watercourse Road). The lane seem to have been named after two brothers Thomas & Joseph Hillgrove who owned a property on the land. By 1852 there were at least 13 properties, mostly houses, along Hillgrove Lane, 11 of which were owned by Mary Byrne. The residential population on the lane remained into the mid 20th century, when the lane was known as Bulldog Lane. Recently constructed houses now overlie most of the lane, but the entrance and a short stretch of the lane off Gerald Griffin Street survive.
Sorry I can't help with Collins Lane.
Regards
Mary
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Mary,
Sorry it's taken me a while to respond to your excellent history/geography lesson on the evolution of some of Cork City's lesser-known lanes! I think Bulldog Lane a far more evocative way of naming where someone lives, rather than using the name of the person who built the first dwellings...
Many, many thanks for this, and I know from PM's I've had from people living the other side of the world now, that all this fascinating additional detail on Cork in the past is much appreciated by other people as well as me.
regards, keith
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You're welcome, hope I am not giving you too much details. I live in Cork and find history of people and places facinating.
It's nice to be able to help!!
Let us know if you want any more local knowledge.
Regards
Mary
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Mary,
I'll almost certainly be picking your brains again in the very near future as the family I'm looking into in 19thC Cork City becomes less shadowy...!
keith
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I took some photos today of Hillgrove Lane. I couldn't send them here because file was too big so if you would like to see them send me a PM and I can email them to you
Mary
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Mary,
That's brilliant, and so kind of you...I'll PM you now,
keith
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Mary (Celtic Liberty),
I've managed to locate this thread again, having had the fact that the 1901 Irish Census is now on line flagged up for me...
So, the KEPPLE/KEPPEL family that I have been trying to trace were at 6, Peacock Lane in 1901. Does THIS little lane still exist, and was/is it in the same kind of location in Cork Cityas Collins Lane?
Very best wishes, keith
N.B. I see that in 1824 there was the Magdalen Asylum for "The reformation of penitent deluded females" in Peacock Lane. Whatever did they mean by that...?
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Hi Keith,
Nice to hear from you again.
I am not sure if the actual lane of Peacock Lane still exists It possible does. St Vincents is still there and is now a renowned secondary school.
If you google Magdalen Laundries in Ireland you get all the sad history of those terrible places. They seemed to be exclusive to Ireland.
I might be in that area soon and can certainly take some photos and send them on to you. I still have your details.
Mary
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Mary, hi again!
I would be most grateful if you could investigate Peacock Lane for me too. I really appreciated you sending me those photos earlier in the thread...
regards, keith
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I have been on the case already for you but cant send the photos here for some reason., was out photographing and talking to neighbours there in the last two hours!!!
Maybe I should consider a career in this research!!!
Mary
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Mary,
Have got them now safely - lots of them - and I've PM-ed you, and will get back with some comments tomorrow. Thank you so much,
keith
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Hi All,
I have joined this conversation late, I know, but a few quick words on some questions which have arisen.
First of all, wrt the dates of the slum clearances- it may be that Collins Lane in the Fair Lane area might have been one of the later lanes to be demolished. The houses in the Old Market Place, also in the same area, began to be demolished in the late 1950s, certainly around 1957. I can still remember some of the demolition going on in the mid 1960s. Collins Lane would have been very near them. My dad lived in the Old Market Place and he might remember the lane.
My own grandmother's family lived on Walshe's Lane and one of her sisters is still alive and well, so if you need to know anything, perhaps she might remember. The area around where that lane was has been redeveloped and redeveloped again and I'm afraid the mess that has been made of that truly historic area is scandalous.
Peacock Lane is still alive and well, up by the North Monastery. It is featured as one of the lanes in the film version of Angela's Ashes. The asylum there might refer to what became the Magdalen Laundry attached to St Vincent's convent. I remember the Magdalen laundry well from even the late 1970s, when it was still in existence and possibly into the early '80s.
God, I feel old now...!
Sean
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Sean,
Sorry to read that recollecting all this fascinating detail may have aged you somewhat! Thanks so much for all this wonderful background. I never knew that scenes from Angela's Ashes were filmed in Cork City, I always imagined they were the streets of Limerick itself.
The Magdalen Launderies sound a horror story, too...
regards, keith
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No problem, Keith. Hope I have been of some help. I remember when the film crew were on Peacock Lane. They laid down false cobbles.
Cheers,
Sean
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Very interesting to read about Walshe's Lane as my ggrandmother Hannah Walsh appears on the 1901 census as living at number 3 Walshe's Lane. No's 7-8 are recorded as 'condemned' and 9-11 is a 'disused soap manufactory'.
Edward Walsh appears on Griffith's Valuation, printing date 1852, as a tenant of Mary Murphy, landlord in Walshe's Lane. The Townland is: Walshe's Lane, off Cattle Street.
Edward was the name of Hannah's father-in-law, her husband Denis having moved to Glamorgan, Wales where the whole family were to follow.