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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Mo37 on Tuesday 01 December 09 20:29 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have any info on a Laughlin family from the Whiteabbey area. My great grandfather was Henry Laughlin born c1838 and died 20th January 1886. I think he died in Antrim town. He was a stone mason. I cannot find any trace of his parents or if he had any siblings or even where he might be buried. Any help on where I might look would be appreciated
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Did Henry marry? marriage certificate (if after civil registration- 1864 for Catholic marriages and 1845 for others) should list father's name and occupation.
Since you have his date of death and approx. age you can order his death certificate which will give exact place of death (however, will not show place of burial).
Index to civil registrations is online and will give you details need to order the certificate (name, year/quarter, registration district, volume and page numbers):
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
See here for details on ordering N.I. certificates:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383526.0.html
To find more details of parents and siblings you'll need to check church records (if they exist).
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Yes Henry did marry. He married Elizabeth Kerr from Antrim on 13th January 1866. They ran away to marry, against her parents wishes, and were married in Derby in England. I have found the copy of the marriage certificate (which I had forgotten I had ordered). His father's name was Alexander, also a stone mason. Are there many burial grounds in Whiteabbey? My Laughlin grandparents are buried in Antrim town cemetry but Henry and Eliza are not buried there. There are no old relatives left that I can ask. It's a pity we don't all write these things down for the future generations. I shall just have to keep searching.
Thanks for your help
Mo
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Mo,
I looked up the Family search Record search pilot site and found the death of Henry Laughlin in Antrim Registration District, Jan-Mar 1886, in Vol1 Page 2. His age is given as 47.
Regards
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Thanks kingskerwell, now I just have to try and find out where he is buried.
Mo
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Unfortunately death certificates don't list place of burial but there might have been an announcement in the local newspaper.
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I have started to try and find more info on Henry Laughlin. Does anyone know what newspapers would have been available in Antrim town in 1886 when Henry died?
Mo
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I suppose you have found Henry's birth in LDS
Henry Laughlin, born 28 March 1838 father Alexander Laughlin, mother Esther Ashton or Austin.
Coincidentally, if you look at Griffiths Valuation for the Parish of Templepatrick, close by, you will find an Alexander Loughlin renting a house in the townland of Ballyutoag (a stone mason would only rent a house, no land). In the same townland there is a James Kerr, renting 101 acres of land. Do you think these may be the parents of Henry and Elizabeth?
RosemaryJoan
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Just remember that the LDS record for Henry is submitted not extracted and needs to be verified.
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Mo, What was Elizabeth's father's name? I have found a Henry Loughlin (note spelling) living in Ballyhenry, Carnmoney Parish,renting just a house in 1861. There were a few Kerrs living in Ballyhenry at that time. RosemaryJoan
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Hi Rosemary
Elizabeth's father was William Kerr and her mother Mary Craig. They came from Antrim town as far as I know and had a large family (13 children I think). Henry Laughlin was born in 1838 but his parents were married in 1824. You would think there must be other children born before Henry but I have not been able to find them. As to the other spelling (Loughlin) we found a writing copy book belonging to my father when he was aged 8 where he had spelt his name with an 'o'. Our name was always spelt with an 'a' and my father couldn't give us a reason as to why he had written it with an 'o' . He was quite elderly when we asked about it so I think his memory was failing.
Mo
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Hi Aghadowey
What is meant by 'LDS record for Henry is submitted not extracted and needs to be verified'?
We have Henry Laughlin's birth recorded as 1839 in an old family book but when I started to research the family I found a Henry Laughlin born 28-03-1838. He seemed to fit all other information we had about him (ie married 13-01-1866 and died 20-01-1886). Could I have been researching the wrong Henry?
Mo
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There are two types of LDS records- Extracted and submitted. Extracted records are those extracted from records such as birth registrations, marriage registrations, census, etc. Submitted records are ones which have been submitted by LDS members (and others)- some of these may be taken from actual records (as the extracted ones are) or they may be estimated dates and relationships- they need to be verified.
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Thanks for the explanation Agadowey.
Mo
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Mo, In History from Headstones there is this entry:
Carnmoney CI, Carnmoney, Antrim
LAUGHLIN,
The family burying ground of Henry McLaughlin, Belfast (no information)
I don't understand why it says McLaughlin, but Belfast I can understand, because Carnmoney is so close to Belfast, but I think you should send for Henry's death certificate, as that might contain the odd clue. Have you the birth certificates for any of his children?
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan,
Sometimes with Irish names the Mc bit can be added or detached. (Similarly with O' as in say O'Regan). So McLaughlin & Laughlin can be the same person or same family. And for indexing purposes both would often be cross referenced. (Mc broadly just means son of).
Elwyn
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Mo, I see that Henry and Elizabeth had
William Henry, born 1867
Robert Alexander born 1869 died 1870
Robert Alexander born 1871
John born 1875
All in Whitehouse district. These are all extracts from Civil Registration.
If Robert Alexander the child was buried in Carnmoney, I suspect that his father Henry would be buried there also.
I also note that Elizabeth and the three remaining sons are all living in Antrim town in 1901 (see census).
RosemaryJoan
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Hi RosemaryJoan
I have the information for Henry and Elizabeth's children. Their eldest son William Henry Kerr Laughlin (born 02-02-1867) was my Grandfather. I ran into problems trying to find Henry's siblings - if he had any. I've been to Carnmoney burying ground. There is a Laughlin grave there. I can't find my information at the minute but I think it was a James Laughlin and his wife Margaret and also his daughter. I couldn't find any relationship for them to my Great grandfather.
All Henry and Elizabeth's children seem to have been born in the Whiteabbey area. My Grandfather was a builder by trade in Antrim town so I would imagine that he would have marked his parent's grave in some way. His mother (Elizabeth) died in 1910 but they are not buried in the family grave in Antrim Cemetery. I wasn't interested enough in family history until my father was too elderly to remember where their burying ground was.
I will just have to keep searching!
Mo
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Mo, The entry in History from Headstones definitely says that it is the burying ground of Henry in Carnmoney Church of Ireland. Is that the graveyard you visited?
Here is Elizabeth and her sons in the 1901 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Antrim_Urban/Castle_Street/915451/
I see in the 1911 census John and hjis wife and family are living next door to William in Castle Street.
Perhaps another Rootschatter has access to the C of I Carnmoney records. Any offers?
RosemaryJoan
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Hi Rosemary
It was Carnmoney C of I graveyard that I visited. It was a hugh graveyard taking up both sides of the road. The caretaker took me to a Laughlin grave but I had the feeling that the Christian name was James. When I put Henry Laughlin into the search on History of Headstones it says no record found. Am I looking in the right place?
Mo
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Mo, I will send you a PM.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi Rosemary
Elizabeth's father was William Kerr and her mother Mary Craig. They came from Antrim town as far as I know and had a large family (13 children I think). Henry Laughlin was born in 1838 but his parents were married in 1824. You would think there must be other children born before Henry but I have not been able to find them. As to the other spelling (Loughlin) we found a writing copy book belonging to my father when he was aged 8 where he had spelt his name with an 'o'. Our name was always spelt with an 'a' and my father couldn't give us a reason as to why he had written it with an 'o' . He was quite elderly when we asked about it so I think his memory was failing.
Mo
I'm researching my Irish family, and I'm trying to identify my great-great grandfather Laughlin, whose given name was James and who was a "bricklayer," residing in Belfast, at least for a time. In researching the name, I found a James Laughlin, stone mason, whose father Alexander was also a stone mason. James was born circa 1830 and married Margaret Gribben in Feb. 1855. It seems likely that this James was a brother of your great-great grandfather. I am still uncertain about whether this James is a relative of mine.
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Hi
The James Laughlin (stone mason) may be a brother of my great grandfather Henry. I have not been able to find a connection other than they both had a father called Alexander. I have visited Carnmoney graveyard hoping to find my great grandfather's grave but was not successful. However I did see James Laughlin and his wife Margaret's grave (also a daughter buried with them). Their grave is on the same site as the church - to the right hand side of the church as you look at it from the road.
How do you think you might be related to these Laughlins?
I have found it difficult to find connections in this family. My great grandfather was born in 1838 although his parents (Alexander and Esther) were married in 1824. So I have always assumed there might have been earlier siblings and James along with a few others would seem to fit. If you have any other information I would love to hear from you.
Regards
Mo
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Henry's funeral notice is in the Belfast Newsletter on 22 Jan 1886. The copy viewable in Ancestry has a fold which makes some of the critical information difficult to read. For instance you can only see the GHLIN. January 20 at his residence Castle xxxx Antrim. Henry Laughlin, architect. His remains will be interred at the family xxx(?burying) ground Churchyard this Friday after (?noon) at 3 o clock.
Is Churchyard an actual place?
However Henry is described as an Architect which might mean you will find him in their records.
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My understanding is that it simply means Churchyard, Antrim (since Antrim has already been mentioned). BTW, "Castle xxxx" is probably Castle Street in Antrim.
Just to note the following Church of Ireland baptisms, the address for all is Antrim (town), the parents are Alexander and Esther Loughlin, his occupation is mason in all bar one: Esther Loughlin 28 September 1828; Catherine Loughlin 25 December 1830; Anne Loughlin 28 April 1833 (father Alexander's occupation = nailer); Matilda Loughlin 16 August 1835; David Loughlin 17 May 1840; Thomas Loughlin 12 November 1843.
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Thanks Gaffy.
I didn't transcribe the notice very accurately but I believe there was a comma after the word "ground" and before the word Churchyard, which had a capital C. This is why I wondered if it was an actual place. I also would have expected to see the name of the Church if it was a churchyard, which is why it is a shame that I cannot read the word before "ground" which I am only guessing is "burying".
Yes I looked up the 1901 census and see the address for the family is Castle Street.
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From the death notices I've seen it isn't uncommon to simply see something like "for interment in the family burying ground, Churchyard, Saintfield" (or whatever the town is).
The copy of this particular death notice I've seen (on another source) is poor quality as well, but your transcription is sound enough, particularly of the important detail "architect" which is clearer than most of the rest.
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Just a couple of possibilities for children's marriages
- Catharine Laughlin, daughter of an Alexander Laughlin (a mason), married William Fleming on 3 March 1852 in Antrim Old Presbyterian Church, her address was Antrim (town);
- David Loughlin, son of an Alexander Loughlin (a mason), married Elizabeth Kelly on 14 May 1866, he was 25, both living in Monkstown just north of Belfast (edited to add: just over a mile north of Whitehouse, where Henry Laughlin and Elizabeth Kerr had a son William Henry on 2 February 1867).
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Hi
The James Laughlin (stone mason) may be a brother of my great grandfather Henry. I have not been able to find a connection other than they both had a father called Alexander. I have visited Carnmoney graveyard hoping to find my great grandfather's grave but was not successful. However I did see James Laughlin and his wife Margaret's grave (also a daughter buried with them). Their grave is on the same site as the church - to the right hand side of the church as you look at it from the road.
How do you think you might be related to these Laughlins?
I have found it difficult to find connections in this family. My great grandfather was born in 1838 although his parents (Alexander and Esther) were married in 1824. So I have always assumed there might have been earlier siblings and James along with a few others would seem to fit. If you have any other information I would love to hear from you.
Regards
Mo
I'm searching for my great- and great-great paternal grandparents. I have a copy of my great-grandparents' marriage record. According to that record, my great-grandfather, James Laughlin, was a bricklayer, and married Elizabeth Galbraith in 1876 at St Anne's, Shankill. The record says he was 24 at the time of his marriage, meaning he was born circa 1852. The record also shows that his father, my great-great-grandfather, was also named James and was also a bricklayer. I can't find a birth record c1852 for James Laughlin, although I have found a baptism record for a James Loughran, baptised at St Anne's Shankill in 1855. I can't find my great-grandparents James and Elizabeth Laughlin (and variant spellings) in either the 1901 or 1911 Census of Ireland. There's a listing in the 1901 Census for a James and Margretta Laughlin and children at 5 Arlington St; James (a bricklayer) is about the right age to be my great-great-grandfather, but I can't find a firm connection. The only hint I have is a beautiful small card sent from Ireland to my grandfather in the US and signed "Annie." There's a daughter Annie listed in the 1901 census at 5 Arlington St. So the short answer to your question is that I'm not at all sure I'm related to the James Laughlin, stone mason, son of Alexander. It's a line I'm pursuing to see if this might be my great-great-grandfather.
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For reference, here's the link to Laughlins in 1901:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Arlington_Street/935198
1907 & 1908 directories- James Laughlin still at 5 Arlington St. but 1910 shows different occupant:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1907_3.htm
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1908_3.htm
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1910_b.htm
Three of the children, Annie, Thomas & Catherine, here in 1911:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton/Cavehill_Road/171276
Thomas Laughlin listed in 1910 directory:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/alphanames1910L.htm
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Hi Gaffy
(Just to note the following Church of Ireland baptisms, the address for all is Antrim (town), the parents are Alexander and Esther Loughlin, his occupation is mason in all bar one: Esther Loughlin 28 September 1828; Catherine Loughlin 25 December 1830; Anne Loughlin 28 April 1833 (father Alexander's occupation = nailer); Matilda Loughlin 16 August 1835; David Loughlin 17 May 1840; Thomas Loughlin 12 November 1843.)
You posted these C of I baptisms all in Antrim town. Was there one for Henry? He was born 24th March 1838. I have him born in Cloughfern Whiteabbey. I also have his parents as Alexander and Esther who were married in Miltown Presbyterian Church in Antrim in 1824. Perhaps I've been looking at the wrong parents for Henry!! There is a churchyard in Antrim Town just opposite Miltown church but it is not open to the public. Would you know if this is a Church of Ireland Church?
Thanks
Mo
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For reference, here's the link to Laughlins in 1901:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dock_Ward/Arlington_Street/935198
1907 & 1908 directories- James Laughlin still at 5 Arlington St. but 1910 shows different occupant:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1907_3.htm
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1908_3.htm
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/acomplete1910_b.htm
Three of the children, Annie, Thomas & Catherine, here in 1911:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton/Cavehill_Road/171276
Thomas Laughlin listed in 1910 directory:
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/alphanames1910L.htm
Thanks! I have this information, but so far haven't found a definitive birth certificate for this James Laughlin, nor death records for him or for his wife.
What's very puzzling to me is that I can't find my grandparents, James and Elizabeth (Galbraith) Laughlin in either the 1901 or 1911 census. The last records I can find for them are for 1879 and 1880: a record of the birth and death of their son Goldwin Laughlin in 1879, when they were living at 57 Barrow St; and a listing in the 1880 directory for the same address (name spelled Loughran in the directory). I know that Elizabeth Galbraith Laughlin at least was alive into the 1920s or 1930s, because I have copies of cards sent from her to my grandfather in the US, but I can't find any records.
Perhaps someone can help me solve the mystery of where my grandparents might have been during the censuses? Also, can anyone enlighten me on the variant spellings Laughlin and Loughran? The surname of my forebears appears as Laughlin in most records - on my great-grandparents marriage record, on the birth records of my grandfather's siblings, Elizabeth and Goldwin, and on Goldwin's death record. But my grandfather's surname is given as Loughran on his birth record, although he himself always spelled it Laughlin.
Thanks for any help or ideas!
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Back to the Arlington St. Laughlin family- this might be the same family:
James Laughlin, son of Alexander, m.(1855 Belfast) Margaret Gribben, daughter of James
marriage- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXD-7Z4
Margaret (1864) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQT-XHV
Thomas (1866) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F55F-HX7
Nancy (1869) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5D5-S48
Catherine (1872) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58G-T7G
Was typing the above while you were posting so-
so far haven't found a definitive birth certificate for this James Laughlin
Civil registration of births started in 1864 so there will be no birth certificates for anyone born before this date
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You posted these C of I baptisms all in Antrim town. Was there one for Henry? He was born 24th March 1838. I have him born in Cloughfern Whiteabbey. I also have his parents as Alexander and Esther who were married in Miltown Presbyterian Church in Antrim in 1824. Perhaps I've been looking at the wrong parents for Henry!! There is a churchyard in Antrim Town just opposite Miltown church but it is not open to the public. Would you know if this is a Church of Ireland Church?
Graveyard map for Co. Antrim- you can filter by religion:
http://www.historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?antrim
See also the Council's list of graveyards under their care:
http://www.antrimandnewtownabbey.gov.uk/Residents/Cemeteries
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Back to the Arlington St. Laughlin family- this might be the same family:
James Laughlin, son of Alexander, m.(1855 Belfast) Margaret Gribben, daughter of James
marriage- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXD-7Z4
Margaret (1864) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQT-XHV
Thomas (1866) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F55F-HX7
Nancy (1869) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5D5-S48
Catherine (1872) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58G-T7G
Thanks again. I do have all this information. However, I cannot find any documents that show that this James and Margaret had a son named James, so cannot find any proof that they are my elusive great-great-grandparents. If they are not, then I cannot find either my great-great nor my great-grandparents in the 1901 or 1911 censuses. So I lack any hints or trails that would help me to continue research. Any ideas, anyone? I would appreciate any help.
Was typing the above while you were posting so-
so far haven't found a definitive birth certificate for this James Laughlin
Civil registration of births started in 1864 so there will be no birth certificates for anyone born before this date
Thanks again. I do have all this information. However, I cannot find any documents that show that this James and Margaret had a son named James, so cannot find any proof that they are my elusive great-great-grandparents. If they are not, neither my great-great nor my great-grandparents seem to be in the 1901 or 1911 censuses. So, with no birth registration or census information, I lack any hints or trails that would help me to continue research. Any ideas, anyone? I would appreciate any help.