RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wendy1 on Monday 30 November 09 09:51 GMT (UK)
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hi there Im just starting the other side of my ansestery in the name of MARTIN.
Clara EmmaCatherine MARTIN born 1884 either in Sydney or Melbourne Australia died the central coast of .n.s.w. late of Umina cremated at Palmdale in 1987, Clara passed away at age 103 , Clara is my Grandmother Its funny I never felt the need to ask questions so that leaves me wondering as she was in her late 70's when I was born visiting was a pleasure and I thought an honour so I never asked to many questions of her she just enjoyed our company now I find myself needing to know. Claras husband was Percy Macness Turville But Im not gathering to much info on the turvilles right now I'm taking the time on Claras side to get it started ,
If anyone can help that would be wonderful I have photos of Clara 20 and again when she was 98. I hope some one out there can help me her children where Hilton turville N.S.W. frederick Turville N.S.W.Margorie jean Drinnan/Clarke nee Turville N.S.W and Betty Morcom nee Turville W.A
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Hi
Her birth in Victoria
MARTIN Clara Emma Cathe
Father Thomas Mother Sarah BROOKFIELD
At Kew 1884 Reg# 25460
and sibling
MARTIN Elsie Louise
Father Thomas Mother Sarah BROOKFIELD
At Kew 1886 Reg#27232
Cheers
Cando
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And her parents' marriage
MARTIN Thomas b. Whroo
BROOKFIELD Sarah born London
1883 Reg#6612
Their marriage cert would give you the parents names. You can purchase online and immediately download from
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cheers
Cando
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This may be Sarah and her family arriving in Victoria on the BENGAL in April, 1871
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
BROOKFIELD John 43
BROOKFIELD Louisa 42 years
BROOKFIELD Emma 18 years
BROOKFIELD Louisa 15 years
BROOKFIELD Sarah 12 years
BROOKFIELD Ann 13 years
BROOKFIELD Eliza 9 yearss
BROOKFIELD John 2 years
BROOKFIELD Joseph 1 year
Death
MARTIN Sarah
Father Brookfield John Mother Louise UNKNOWN
At Port Melbourne 75 years 1934 Reg#8757
Cando
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cando thats is them I remember their names now I did have my grandmothers marrage papers but I cant find them now when you said their names I knew because I really thought that was them but because I hadnt had any luck with the names I gave up thinking it must be something else thank you so much for that now Im not sure as to what to do and were to look so blindly off i'll go . but if there is anything any one knows about theses people and thier ansesters I would be excited to here from you . cando once again thank you and merry christmas , :)
Thomas Martin was a policeman I remember that being on Claras marrage cert. you jjust left an other post a list of people I have a photo of a lady I think Claras sister who sent her photo to Clara signed what I thought was Eliza and there is a Eliza Brookfeild in the list along with Sarah I know thias couldnt be Claras sister but the names are one of the same, your very hot cando I am sure you have the right people
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Elsie it is that looking at it I do have the signiture on file with her photo but the file is to large so I dont know how to get it small to post in here ? you could see the name as well
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I think this is Thomas' birth -
MARTIN Thomas
Father Arthur Mother Catherine BARRY
At Whroo 1859 Reg#3763
Marriage
MARTIN Arthur
BARRY Catherine
1857 Reg# 688
Children
MARTIN Dennis
Father Arthur Mother Catherine BARRY
At Whroo 1860 Reg#15432
MARTIN Lydia Catherine
Father Arthur Mother Catherine BARRY
At Whroo 1864 Reg#12317
MARTIN Mary Emily
Father Arthur Mother Catherine BARRY
At Whroo 1867 Reg#5444
MARTIN Elizabeth Emma
Father Arthur Mother Catherine BARRY
At Whroo 1872 Reg#12954
Arthur and Catherine's marriage cert will give you their place of birth and parents' names.
Cheers
Cando
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You would have to see Arthur's marriage certificate to find his parents' names.
Cheers
Cando
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Wow is all I can say Cando you are amazing. so many thing make sense just by the names my brother who was 20 years my Senior name is Barry and the other side of the family the turville name there is a grandmother gg who's last name was Macness his name is Barry Macness Drinnan its so interesting I never knew that my family was so orientated as to name a 1st Son two last names like that for first names. your information is definitely right you have the right family.
I dont know where whroo is if its here in Australia or from over seas some were. my husband isnt much into this but Ihave been winging for weeks now how I cant find a thing and when you just gave me my hole lifes past or most of it I ran out to him so exited he said to tell you thank you so much you have made things so much easier for me.
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Whroo is south of Rushworth, Victoria. Google maps.
Cheers
Cando
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Isnt it funny how now the name martin has changed to martyn. :)
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It actually hasn't changed at all. You will notice the parish record of their marriage in 1820 is in the name of MARTIN. The enumerator on the 1841 census has obviously assumed it was MARTYN. However that is not to say the spelling of names doesn't change over time. Many people were illiterate and had accents.... I guess it depends on the interpretation of the person recording their name.
I will have a look for the BROOKFIELD family in London later. There are a number of Catherine BARRY's who emigrated before 1859. I or someone else, will have to find her death registration to work out which one is your Catherine.
Cheers
Cando
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Thank you Cando for all your big effort tonight :P its late now , it is about that time to rest and sleep on news of the past family details, and yes your right about the name not changing and the reasons for the error. I will be back in here tomorrow for a while I'M so pleased you came in when you did and your sense of direction to take leading to the right infomation.
with kind regards
wendy1
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Wendy the information should be validated with the occasional certificate.
Possibly Sarah's birth
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Births Dec qtr 1858
BROOKFIELD Sarah Bethnal G 1c/312
Marriages Sep qtr 1850
BROOKFIELD John Hackney 3/164
HUBIE Louisa Hackney 3/164
1851 Census HO107/1541/493/92
Living at 2 Gossett Street, Bethnal Green, Middlesex
BROOKFIELD John Head Married 23 years Chairmaker Born Shoreditch, Middlesex
BROOKFIELD Louisa Wife Married 22 years Silk Filler Born Spitalfields, Middlesex
I can't find them on the 1861 census.....perhaps someone else can.
They were obviously still living in the Bethnal Green prior to to their departure as Joseph aged 1 on the shipping record was born....
Births Dec 1870
BROOKFIELD Joseph Bethnal Green 1c/310
Louisa's death with incorrect father's name. John BROOKFIELD was her husband and her maiden name was HUBIE.
BROOKFIELD Louisa
Father Brookfield Jno Mother Thas Hubie UNKNOWN
74 years 1902 At Malvern Reg#2365
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bq/
Extracted record
HUBIE Louisa
Baptism 27 Apr 1828 Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney, London Eng
Father Philip HUBIE Mother Frances
and
BROOKFIELD John
Born 25 Apr 1827
Baptism 20 May 1827 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London Eng
Father Alexander BROOKFIELD Mother Ann
Death
BROOKFIELD John
Father Alexander Mother Anne SUTER
64 years at Collingwood 1891 Reg#14559
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php
St Kilda Cemetery
BROOKFIELD John
64 years Date of service 3 Oct 1891
Burial Church of England Monumental Grave Compartment B Grave#065
BROOKFIELD Louise
74 years Date of service 28 Mar 1902
Burial Church of England Monumental Grave Compartment B Grave #063
Memorial Inscription
Grave#063 & #065
Henry LEEK, late of Woverhampton,
died at St Kilda 20 Feb 1870
also Ann DAY 1 Oct 1877
John BROOKFIELD 2 Oct 1891
Louisa BROOKFIELD, wife of above 26 Mar 1902
Emma Ann O'CONNOR, dtr of above 9 Feb 1912
also Mary Ann GODIER 22 Nov 1913
Cheers
Cando
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Wendy the speculative research ie for shipping records and census for the MARTIN family would need to be checked. The only way forward really is to purchase the marriage of Arthur and Catherine. Many times, especially late at night, it is easy to assume you have found the right people..ie the facts appear to match.
Death
MARTIN Catherine
Father BARRY Denis Mother Catherine OLEARY
78 years at Rushworth 1918 Reg#10688
Her death certificate should show her place of birth, ie if the informant had the knowledge.
If I can find Arthur's death it may either confirm or eliminate Vincent MARTIN as his father. Will have to search later though. Someone else is sure to pick up and help....and more than likely disprove what I have found ;)
Cheers
Cassie
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I have tracked the wrong MARTIN family in the UK but I did write in my post...this may be Arthur arriving :-[ ::) :(
This could be his death....Baillieston is near Whroo.
MARTIN Arthur
Father Thomas Mother Lydia SKIPON
54 years At Bailleston [correct sp is Baillieston] 1892 Reg#4775
and an extracted record....phew...I needed to redeem myself after that faux pas ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bq/
MARTIN Thomas:
SKIPPON Lydia
13 Oct 1835 at Beccles, Suffolk, England
Births Mar qtr 1838
MARTIN Arthur Hoxne 13/394
The district Hoxne spans the boundaries of the counties of Norfolk and Suffolk.
I won't search any further as you really need the 1859 marriage cert to validate this.
Cheers ;D
Cando
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EDIT: I think there may be a better match shown below ???
Hmmm - on IGI there is a baptism for Arthur MARTIN, born Hoxne Suffolk (no date given), baptised 2 June 1839 (no indication of where the baptism took place as the record is contained in Suffolk County Bishops' Transcripts which are extracts from many parishes).
Parents for this Arthur are listed as Charles MARTIN and Lydia. Possibly a mistranscription, although there are a number of siblings listed, with same parents.
Judith
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dear Cando,
I took your advice and got the marraige cert between Arthur MARTIN and Catherine MARTIN.
Catherines maidan name is BARRY.thay were married I will attached the extract of the certificate.
thay were married on the 7th feb 1857, at St Francis Church Melbourne, Arthur MARTINS father is Thomas MARTIN mother is Lydia SKEPPON. Thomas was a clergyman.
Catherines Father is Darrin BARRY mother is Kate SEARY, Minister was John BARRY. Arthur was born in Norfolk England.Catherine in County Cork Irland. :P now Im not sure as to what I should be doing.
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I'm not to sure as to if the names of the father for Catherine is Darrin its hard to see it right.
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Dear Judith thank you for joining my search did you say that you have the baptisiam for Arthur Martin? thomas was married to Lydia from the marraige cert of Arthur, it is Oleary and Denis as the fathers first name.
I am hopeful that you are on the right track Cando everything you search is pointing to the marraige cert of Arthur and Catherine so we can move back further now cant we? with the info that we have so far? ???
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Hi Wendy
My last post has disappeared. ???
The baptism that Judith found on IGI for Arthur b. 1838 is more than likely the same person as the birth found in 1838 on free bdm.
After searching both the 1841 and 1851 Census I feel this is Arthur's baptism.
MARTIN Arthur
Baptism 26 Jul 1836 Suffolk England
Father Thomas MARTIN Mother Lydia
1841 Census HO107/1041/16;
Living at Market Wickham, Suffolk
MARTIN Lydia 35 Independent Not born county
MARTIN Lydia 11 Not born county
MARTIN Arthur 5 Born county
MARTIN Henry 3 Born county
MARTIN Horace 2 Born county
MARTIN Fanny 3 months Born county
MARTIN Fanny
Baptism 13 Aug 1841 Wickham Market, Suffolk Eng
Father Thomas MARTIN Mother Lydia
1851 Census HO107/1827/582
Living at West Rudham, Norfolk
MARTIN Thomas Head Married 70 years Curate of West Rudham b. Edkirk, Norfolk
MARTIN Lydia Wife Married 48 b. Fakenham, Norfolk
MARTIN Lydia Dau Unmarried 21 b. Fakenham, Norfolk
MARTIN Arthur Son 15 b. Saxmundham, Suffolk
MARTIN Henry Son 13 b. Saxmundham, Suffolk
MARTIN Horace Son 12 b.Saxmundham,Suffolk
I think the marriage in 1835 was possibly a second marriage for Lydia and Arthur their first born in 1836. We have parents with the correct names and the father's occupation is also correct.
I can't help you with searching for Catherine BARRY's birth or family in Ireland so am wondering what you would like to do now. Are you using a family history program to record the information?
Cheers
Cando
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This may be Arthur's arrival in Victoria, now we have a better idea of his dob
MARTIN Arthur Aged 17 years Arrived in October 1852 on the DELTA Port B Fiche 013 Pge 004
No other MARTIN family on board.
Cando
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hi cando I dont know what you mean by a history program ? can you help me understand
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Agree with you Cando.
I found the same 1836 baptism on IGI saying it was in Suffolk. Arthur gives Norfolk as his place of birth but there is a lot of confusion in that area as to which records are where. Much of the north part of Suffolk is in the Diocese of Norwich so that records are often attributed to the wrong county - it's a nuisance and can make it really difficult to find the location of parish registers. (Ask me how I know!!!!!!) >:( >:( >:(
I was in Saxmundham in September - it is a lovely village. :) :)
Judith
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thank you both could we go along the lines of thomas martins wife lydia skeppon arthur martins mothers side perhaps. of perhaps thomas martins decsendents back from him ?Id LIke to see how far back, In my grandmothers husbands lines I have it back as far as year 405 for the turville descendents clovis de cologne, its so different for the female side I guess running martin as far as you can go is how its done thinking out loud now . what ever you all think Im so new at this Im in orr of your talents to find things from years passed
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hi cando I dont know what you mean by a history program ? can you help me understand
A software program to record the information about your family from which you are able to produce a family tree and reports. There are many on the market some of which include free dowloands and trial periods to try before purchase. Familysearch.org offer a free download of a program called PAF.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07l6/
could we go along the lines of thomas martins wife lydia skeppon arthur martins mothers side perhaps. of perhaps thomas martins decsendents back from him ?Id LIke to see how far back,
I can't assist with research in Norfolk or Suffolk in the 1700's. Others may be able to help in this period.
You may find further information by searching here
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp
The good folks on the Norfolk or Suffolk boards may able to help you.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,26.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,35.0.html
Cheers
Cando
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cando I wont to thank you personally for all your effort in compiling my family history with me you have been a great help in unlocking the past history of my ancsestors Merry Christmas to you and your family.
with kind regard's
Wendy 1 :-*
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Hi Just butting in,
Catherines father looks like Dennis to me . But it is hard to see.
Regards
Alison
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hi alison welcome , I took a magnafying glass to the document and it is Denis, Condo has the infomation back in post time frame 00:47:23 I missed her research Denis BARRY. hi and welcome to my history search
warm regards
Wendy 1
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I was wondering can we look at finding out what happened to Claras sibling Elsie Louise MARTIN born 1886 Kew Victoria Reg no: 27232 if she married and to who and if there are any sibling children
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Hi there Wendy
Marriage
MARTIN Elsie Louise
MENZIES John
1922 Reg#8321
Death
MENZIES Elsie Louise
1966 age 78 Esse (Essendon)
Father: Thomas Martin Mother: Sarah Brookfield
Sorry I can't help with any children as I only have information
to 1920 available
Raylen
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Fawkner Memorial Park
www.fcmp.com.au
Lists the following burials
Church Of England: Compartment O Grave 3148
Elsie Louise Menzies
Date of Service 1/3/1966 Age 78
John Menzies
Date of Service 16/5/1967 Age 79
Sarah Martin
Date of Service 1/10/1934 Age 75
John Menzies
died 1967 Age 79 Esse
Father: Andrew Mother: Wilhelmina Smith
Reg#10435
Raylen
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Welcome Raylen :) to my family history search.
thats great you do have the right sibling and her husband wow I never knew about this line and you have made that possible thank you :) I seen the name MENZIES John and thought of the old priminister of Australia lol I think the marrage date tells us that it isnt the one but it is the right family for me .
If there is any one who can add to this search of siblings or children I would be greatful to see this side of my grandmothers sibling Elsie I never knew who the photo was and its exciting to see now who she is. If I can get her photo to down size to fit into attachments I will add her so all can see Elsie MENZIES nee MARTIN
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A little more that might interest you
from the Victorian Electoral Rolls
1924, 1931,1936,1937
32 Derham Street, Port Melbourne
Elsie Louise Menzies - Home duties
John Menzies - Labourer
Andrew Menzies - carpenter
1943,1949
same address
Elsie Louise Menzies - Home duties
John Menzies - Labourer
1930
The Grange, Beamish Street, South Campsie
Clara Emma Catherine Turville - Home duties
Percy Mackness Turville - brassmoulder
1933
16 Kingsgrove Rd, Campsie
Clara Emma Catherine Turville - Home duties
Percy Mackness Turville - brassmoulder
Hilton Frank Hopetoun Turville - engineer
1937
16 Kingsgrove Rd, Campsie
Clara Emma Catherine Turville - Home duties
Percy Mackness Turville - brassmoulder
Frederick George Turville - electrical fitter
1943 and 1954
16 Bexley Road, Campsie
Clara Emma Catherine Turville - Home duties
Percy Mackness Turville - brassmoulder
possibly still the original homes
http://maps.google.com.au
Raylen
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my great great great grand father thomas martin from what I have learnt was a preist in colkirkk he was a at St Peters church and rectory of over 40 years and his son thomas Martin was a minister for the same church I stillhave to look more into this .
If anyone from around thoses areas can come up with more infomation on my ggg and gg grand fathers and thier wives and siblings I sure would appriciate it very much
cheers
wendy1
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Hi Wendy,
How far did you get with this search and how do we get a copy of your resulting family trees and exchange family photos?
My cousin, Clare's great grandson and Hilton's grandson, has posted family documents and photos on another website if you would like to follow that up.
Where do you live now?